Are French vineyards going to the screw cap closures?
Apr 2nd, 2006, 06:12 AM
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 4,725
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Are French vineyards going to the screw cap closures?
I met a wine importer who told me that wineries in various parts of the world are going to the Stelvin closure (screw cap). As many as one bottle per case is lost by a bad cork. Corks (from trees in Portugal) cost $1 apiece. Contrary to opinion cork does nothing to enhance a wine's quality (breathing through cork a myth?). Apparently there are money incentives for Australian companies who are beginning to bottle half of their products with screw caps to try to gain public acceptance. Any sign of French wineries bucking the tradition? Would the public accept screw caps?
Apr 2nd, 2006, 06:37 AM
#2
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,194
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think that some are, in every country. Is this an "industry" question (and if so, you'll get more accurate info on a wine internet forum, or industry message board, I would think), or a travel and tourism question? Are you seeking to go to wine areas where they do... or do not... adopt the newer screw ap closures?
Nothing "bad" about this question... just not sure that I understand the context of asking it.
Best wishes,
Rex
Nothing "bad" about this question... just not sure that I understand the context of asking it.
Best wishes,
Rex
Apr 2nd, 2006, 07:27 AM
#4
That's true and at vineyards I visited they say eventually they will follow.
Here's a forum on the subject:
http://www.foodservice.com/forums/me...threadid=17867
Here's a forum on the subject:
http://www.foodservice.com/forums/me...threadid=17867
Apr 2nd, 2006, 07:28 AM
#5
Original Poster
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 4,725
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No Rex, nothing nefarious about the question - more contemplating mystic disappearing. We were just reading the thread about importing wines as well as thinking fondly of some special meals that were enhanced by the sommelier's handling of the knife and corkscrew (How do you remove a screw cap with a flamboyent panache? Will it be necessary to smell the Stelvin?).
Regarding importation of wine the one-in-twelve spoilage gives one cause to think.
Regarding importation of wine the one-in-twelve spoilage gives one cause to think.
Apr 2nd, 2006, 07:31 AM
#6
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,229
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't see any screw caps so far. I have heard this amount ($1.00 per cork)but I find this quite wrong. I have bought wine in Spain for less than an euro, so what pays for the bottle and wine.
I have seen some composite corks are installing into low quality wines in France.
Australian wines certainly closed with screw caps but mostly that I've seen on the Australian wine is capped with plastic corks.
Switzerland has had screw caps for their wines-usually cheap wines. They also use bottle cap closures too. Ironically, the served wine which was closed with bottle cap closures, the server will push a cork onto the bottle while they're serving the wine to the client.
Another statistic about one bottle per case being corked, I just don't believe this amount. Who checks these bottles being lost due to corkage.
http://www.corktek.com/02/0201.php
This is the site for Corktek which is being used in France for nowdays.
Blackduff
I have seen some composite corks are installing into low quality wines in France.
Australian wines certainly closed with screw caps but mostly that I've seen on the Australian wine is capped with plastic corks.
Switzerland has had screw caps for their wines-usually cheap wines. They also use bottle cap closures too. Ironically, the served wine which was closed with bottle cap closures, the server will push a cork onto the bottle while they're serving the wine to the client.
Another statistic about one bottle per case being corked, I just don't believe this amount. Who checks these bottles being lost due to corkage.
http://www.corktek.com/02/0201.php
This is the site for Corktek which is being used in France for nowdays.
Blackduff
Apr 2nd, 2006, 08:04 AM
#11
Original Poster
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 4,725
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
blackduff- I would agree with you that 1 bottle spoiled per case is high. Other reports say 3 - 5%. An article in Mar. 29 Tampa Trubune says 1 in 12. My importer friend says that the 1 in 12 is accurate if you include bottles removed by bottler, importer, distributor and seller as well as those returned by the end user.
cig- thank you for the reference. Interesting.
cig- thank you for the reference. Interesting.
Apr 2nd, 2006, 08:08 AM
#13
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 666
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Some of the vineyards are using the plastic corks - but only for bottles of rose and lower cost whites. I have yet to see a composite or plastic cork in a bottle of red wine here in France.
On a personal note, I find the plastic corks absolute hell to get out of the bottle. But they don't affect the taste and haven't had a "corked" bottle since they started using them a couple of years ago.
PB
On a personal note, I find the plastic corks absolute hell to get out of the bottle. But they don't affect the taste and haven't had a "corked" bottle since they started using them a couple of years ago.
PB
Apr 2nd, 2006, 08:18 AM
#14
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,699
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi rob,
>Contrary to opinion cork does nothing to enhance a wine's quality (breathing through cork a myth?). <
Screw caps are the future for wines that are not intended to be aged for more than a year or three.
For wines that reach their peak after 10-15 years, the jury is still out.
Another advantage of screw caps is that they make the wine less sensitive to mishandling during shipping and storing, eg, screw caps don't dry out.
>Contrary to opinion cork does nothing to enhance a wine's quality (breathing through cork a myth?). <
Screw caps are the future for wines that are not intended to be aged for more than a year or three.
For wines that reach their peak after 10-15 years, the jury is still out.
Another advantage of screw caps is that they make the wine less sensitive to mishandling during shipping and storing, eg, screw caps don't dry out.
Apr 2nd, 2006, 08:20 AM
#16
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 23,382
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Also, even though the screw tops are cheaper than corks, the bottles that can take them are more expensive to produce since they need a special machine to make bottles with those threads in the neck.
Apr 2nd, 2006, 09:00 AM
#18
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,229
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I just did a fast "Sondage" about which bottles in my recyling bag had cork and which had other methods.
They were all 100% cork-but there was only bottles in the bag. All three were local white wine but not cheap. In the restaurant costs 14 euros but I buy this for 2.50 € at the Chateau. It's a very nice white with Viognier grape. Certainly drinkable.
I looked in the fridge and there's a local sweet wine (Muscat). There was some sort of cork but it's a composite type of cork. I think they use ground up cork and put it all together with glue. It seems to work anyway.
Within the past two months I have one decent Bordeaux red which corked. Someone else had brought four bottles of the same wine and just was the first bottle which was corked. There were nine people-seven were French and nobody said anything about the wine was corked.
A few days previous I had dinner with two other groups. There was a selection of reds paraded during the meal. I hate that this changes with each sip. Anyway, one of the bottles was corked. I was certain it was a Rioja Spanish bottle.
I buy a lot of local wine and it's seldom corked. I don't buy box wine and buy my wine by case-six bottles per. The previous mention isn't very often.
The first post mentioned cork coming from Portugal. That's certainly it's a big source but Spain produces a lot and even in my area we produce cork. I have cork trees right in front of my home. Boulou, which is nearby, produces "corks" and it's known as being the kings of cork makers. I guess some people need this information but I haven't spent the time to visit their factory. "Tant pis"
Blackduff
They were all 100% cork-but there was only bottles in the bag. All three were local white wine but not cheap. In the restaurant costs 14 euros but I buy this for 2.50 € at the Chateau. It's a very nice white with Viognier grape. Certainly drinkable.
I looked in the fridge and there's a local sweet wine (Muscat). There was some sort of cork but it's a composite type of cork. I think they use ground up cork and put it all together with glue. It seems to work anyway.
Within the past two months I have one decent Bordeaux red which corked. Someone else had brought four bottles of the same wine and just was the first bottle which was corked. There were nine people-seven were French and nobody said anything about the wine was corked.
A few days previous I had dinner with two other groups. There was a selection of reds paraded during the meal. I hate that this changes with each sip. Anyway, one of the bottles was corked. I was certain it was a Rioja Spanish bottle.
I buy a lot of local wine and it's seldom corked. I don't buy box wine and buy my wine by case-six bottles per. The previous mention isn't very often.
The first post mentioned cork coming from Portugal. That's certainly it's a big source but Spain produces a lot and even in my area we produce cork. I have cork trees right in front of my home. Boulou, which is nearby, produces "corks" and it's known as being the kings of cork makers. I guess some people need this information but I haven't spent the time to visit their factory. "Tant pis"
Blackduff
Apr 2nd, 2006, 01:40 PM
#19
Original Poster
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 4,725
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
For those still interested.
From The San Francisco Chronicle.
One out of every dozen cork-sealed wine bottles judged during the 2004 Macquarie Bank Sydney Royal Wine Show was affected by trichloroanisole --
better known as TCA -- according to results released ahead of the 2005 judging, set to begin next week. TCA occurs in wood materials such as cork and is the unpleasant-smelling compound associated with "corked" wine.
The study was carried out for the first time during show judging in February 2004. The 2,161 wines judged formed the sample for the research.
White wine under cork was particularly vulnerable, with 9.68 percent of white wines affected by TCA.
The study found:
-- 82.1 percent of all entries were presented under cork
-- 8.45 percent of cork-sealed wines were affected by TCA
-- 9.68 percent of dry white wines under cork were affected by TCA
-- 7.86 percent of red wines under cork were affected by TCA
-- 14.95 percent of all entries were sealed under screw cap
-- 1.48 percent of all entries were sealed under plastic cork
From The San Francisco Chronicle.
One out of every dozen cork-sealed wine bottles judged during the 2004 Macquarie Bank Sydney Royal Wine Show was affected by trichloroanisole --
better known as TCA -- according to results released ahead of the 2005 judging, set to begin next week. TCA occurs in wood materials such as cork and is the unpleasant-smelling compound associated with "corked" wine.
The study was carried out for the first time during show judging in February 2004. The 2,161 wines judged formed the sample for the research.
White wine under cork was particularly vulnerable, with 9.68 percent of white wines affected by TCA.
The study found:
-- 82.1 percent of all entries were presented under cork
-- 8.45 percent of cork-sealed wines were affected by TCA
-- 9.68 percent of dry white wines under cork were affected by TCA
-- 7.86 percent of red wines under cork were affected by TCA
-- 14.95 percent of all entries were sealed under screw cap
-- 1.48 percent of all entries were sealed under plastic cork
Apr 2nd, 2006, 04:01 PM
#20
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,049
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I make my own wine, so I have some experience, although certainly not as much as a commercial operation.
First, there is an element of snobism that often surfaces in discussions of wine, and I think this often prevents changes in the industry. If the "experts" assert that only corks are suited for finer wines, the commercial producer will be loathe to switch to artificial corks or screwtops, lest he damage the reputation of his wine.
Even with my limited production, I found that some natural corks did not adequately protect the wine (there are gradations of corks, and I would hope that the better grades would provide better protection). But part of the tradition of ordering the wine is to inspect the cork; why do this unless there is a possibility that it will have failed.
A few years ago I switched to artificial corks. I decided not to use the composite corks, as the sellers admitted that they had a limited life. An artificial cork has a much longer anticipated life, and I have found them to be used in the same way as natural corks, but with less liklihood of failure. Incidentally, the very best reds are aged for years, and part of that process is to replace the original natural cork in anticipation that it will not last.
I don't use screw caps, because I don't have the necessary equipment, but I will admit that I sometimes bottle my more mundane wines in beer bottles, and have never had obvious adverse affects from doing that.
I would be very reluctant to evaluate a wine based on the type of closure used. I am sure there are very undistinguished wines bottled with cork, and very good wines under screw-tops. Taste the wine and make your evaluation based on that, rather than the type of closure used.
First, there is an element of snobism that often surfaces in discussions of wine, and I think this often prevents changes in the industry. If the "experts" assert that only corks are suited for finer wines, the commercial producer will be loathe to switch to artificial corks or screwtops, lest he damage the reputation of his wine.
Even with my limited production, I found that some natural corks did not adequately protect the wine (there are gradations of corks, and I would hope that the better grades would provide better protection). But part of the tradition of ordering the wine is to inspect the cork; why do this unless there is a possibility that it will have failed.
A few years ago I switched to artificial corks. I decided not to use the composite corks, as the sellers admitted that they had a limited life. An artificial cork has a much longer anticipated life, and I have found them to be used in the same way as natural corks, but with less liklihood of failure. Incidentally, the very best reds are aged for years, and part of that process is to replace the original natural cork in anticipation that it will not last.
I don't use screw caps, because I don't have the necessary equipment, but I will admit that I sometimes bottle my more mundane wines in beer bottles, and have never had obvious adverse affects from doing that.
I would be very reluctant to evaluate a wine based on the type of closure used. I am sure there are very undistinguished wines bottled with cork, and very good wines under screw-tops. Taste the wine and make your evaluation based on that, rather than the type of closure used.
