murphy89

True true!

GeoffHamer

The original poster's story seems quite implausible to me. Spanish restaurants don't normally start serving lunch till one, and are usually very busy serving lunches at two. Spaniards eat much later than people in most other European countries.
Which Spanish city has such odd opening hours that a restaurant cannot serve food at lunchtime? Was this story invented in order to make a political point?
As others have pointed out so well, if you are visiting a foreign country, you should always bear in mind that you are the foreigner. If you are in Spain, then you should fit in with the Spanish way of doing things. It would be a sad, boring world if all countries were the same. One of the pleasures of travelling to other countries is to learn about the things that make them different. If you get things wrong, then put it down to experience. Nobody using a forum like this is really starved: we could all go for a few hours without eating if necessary.

walkinaround

most of asia is also a "get what you want when you want it" kind of place. i have to laugh at the american vs. europe perception...don't you people see anything else or is selective memory the problem. many discussions here assume two models for everything(european and american) and i think people would see things a bit more objectively if they considered that europe is not the only alternative to america.

i agree with sue...it's funny when american europhiles bemoan the "americanisation" (as they see it) of everything. convenience and service evolved in the US just as it is in europe. stores closing at 6:00-7:00 as they do in many parts of europe is not in keeping with today's lifestyles (both parents working long hours, etc). it's great to hear an american saying that everything should be kept traditional and quaint in europe but why can't we have convenience also? stores shouldn't close at "siesta" time just so that americans can feel good that there is some place in the world where tradition comes before profit. these american europhiles are well intentioned in protecting the european culture...but we don't need you to create a museum for your occasional visits.

and yes, aside from opening hours, europeans in general are less flexible and more rule orientated. i am not an anthropologist but i would guess that it has something to do with the pride of the positition. in many countries (eg france) jobs like head waiter or store manager often require years of career progression and carry with them much more prestige...the boss is clearly the boss.

over many years, i have worked with many people from latin european countries and this is one of the big cultural clashes in business...for example, the french will often approach a customer telling them how things will be done instead of listening to what the customer wants. this attitude is especially troublesome when the customer is asian or, to a lesser extent, northern european or american.

CRAZY4TRAVEL

I lived in Toronto for many years and as a single person I rarely ever visited the supermarket. I lived in an Italian neighbourhood and I would get off the bus two stops early to shop at the bakery, fruit market and butcher to get fresh items for meals. Not only was the food fresh, I would only buy what I needed so food never went to waste.

I am now living in a city that has few little markets and I really miss the experience. In Toronto, the owners knew me by name and I had a sense that I was part of the community. I am faceless when it comes to my local supermarket here.

I can't say that I have never shopped at a Supermarche while away, but I do prefer the small corner markets much more. I know that in a small way I am supporting the local community.

I almost thought cindiloowho was misunderstood until she came back and made herself perfectly clear. All I can say is WOW....you really should stay home!!

Chele60

Well, it seems very odd to me that the OP went to a restaurant in Spain at 2PM and could not get a meal served. That is still lunchtime!

I do know that, even though I had done research on Spain before I left, when first confronted with siesta in Merida it was quite a culture for us. I knew at some level that things shut down, yes. I just wasn't prepared for the fact that everything shuts down! (Even the fountain in the main plaza is shut off!) It was a bit strange and bizarre, and though we had been able to get something to eat, we were in search of water. Luckily, we did find a newstand that was open and bought water there, but our lesson was learned! We adapted very quickly and just took those 2 - 3 hours every afternoon to nap or relax - and it worked out very well for us.

I'm not sure what the OP's problems were, exactly. Siesta might be a problem for some folks, sure. It's not something we have here in the US. But it's not something that cannot be overcome, either. Like us, after a first encounter with this custom, one simply laughs it off and changes their attitude and adapts to the local culture. After all - it's what traveling is all about. Isn't it?

Nina66

About ten years ago in Paris, we went into a Hagen Daz ice cream parlor. It was staffed by two very young men., maybe seven or eight years old ;-) I looked at the menu and saw that the ice cream concoctions were 'formulas'. Each ingredient was listed separately, although the sundaes were not pre-made.

I choose a praline sundae, but since the ice cream itself and the topping were all praline, and that sounded soooo sweet, I wanted to substitute (a non-existant word in France), vanilla ice cream for the praline.

The English speaking young waiter was totally taken back by my request, even though I said it in French. I repeated it several times in both French and English. You would have thought that I was asking for a McD's burger!

He said that he had to discuss it with his 'colleague'. They had a conference for a few minutes, and he returned saying that it was impossible.

Not one to mess around with my beloved Hagen Daz and wanting deperately to have this sundae, I pleaded with him to see if he could do anything. Again, back to the conference table he went.

Again, 'no madame, it is impossible'. Did I give up or give in - no this was the war of the sundaes.

I was basically pulling a Jack Nickolson chicken sandwich routine from Five Easy Pieces. 'OK, then, how about the formula _exactly_ as described on the menu, but take out the praline glace, and put in in deux scoops of vanille glace with praline sauce?

The third time was the charm, he came back from the war room (behind the counter) with a comprise, saying it was the absolute best they could do - one scoop of vanille and one scoop of praline, with the praline sauce. I WON, I WON .....kinda, sorta.

Who says that the French are inflexible? Not Moi.

Nina

Nina66

English translation of formula - SET IN STONE.

Nina

willit

Carrybean wrote "I'm always amused that when there's the slightest criticism of anything European the poster gets jumped on like crazy. (I'm not speaking specifically of this thread.)"

I think it is a question of perception - Yes there are anti American posts, but as a European, I think that there may be an equal number if not more anti European posts. I suppose it is what you are sensitive to.

Were I a Spanish visitor to New York, would it be right for me to expect the city to close down for a siesta because that is what I am used to and all this hustle and bustle would stop me from sleeping ?

cindiloowho

With the exception of KSWL, you guys are pretty hard on me, if our country is so enept and lacking in tradition and the 'niceties' of life, how come folks are pushing to get in, to move here, while in most countries of Europe, the population is dropping and the economy is stagnating? Of course, if you are wealthy, you can have a fine life almost anywhere, even in Peru, or Baharain. My only point was, maintain to strick a stance founded in tradition often leads to stagnation--and while we travel a lot (probably more than some of you posters) we always do appreciate coming home, yes, to the familiar, but also to the order we take for granted, patrol cars on the highway (in Spain the cops, if you find any, just park somewhere and we are told they'extort' money from autoists), Cross walks where cars actually stop, not try to run you down as the do in Italy, and burgular alams that actually work, and someone comes without 'payola' when they go off. Also, at least in my city, the remarkable lack of grafiti, which is everywhere in Eastern Europe, Spain, and most large cities in Europe. Don't get me wrong, I love to travel, and we do so several times a year, and enjoy the cultural difference, the remarkable people we have met, and the chance to try to see the world from a different perspective. THat's why we go. But Hey! there in nothing wrong with musing on the good side of our own world too, and making comparisons, both positive and negative, is there?

willit

I think you will find that many countries in Europe have large numbers of would be immigrants. The falling populations are a result of low birth rate, and not emigration.

You go on to make a list of generalisations and accusations/ You end with :

"there in nothing wrong with ......making comparisons, both positive and negative, is there?"

And I completely agree, but wonder when you are going to start on the positives.

Poohgirl

Tell us what cultural diffences you enjoy? Because you've only mentioned ones you don't like. You sound like a person I know who says she loves to travel, but I've only heard her complain about how things are not like they are "at home," i.e. what they are supposed to be like. Unless you like complaining....some people do.

smueller

Opening hours throughout much of Europe are legally mandated. A few years ago, I asked a Rothenburg shopkeeper why he didn't remain open after dark when the streets were full of window shoppers with no place to buy because all the shops were closed. He explained that he was only allowed be to open for 8 hours a day. He could choose those 8 hours, but every hour he was open in the evening was an hour that he could not be open during the day, when the tourists were present in even greater numbers. He found the entire system very frustrating and felt that it was designed solely to discourage competition.

janisj

cindi: Much like all the threads about GCT, the more you talk and try to justify what you say - the lousier it sounds.

At least your opening post here was <i>slightly </i>open to interpretation - as kswl illustrates.

But your next two posts remove any doubt what you meant - and it isn't a pretty picture. If you want everything exactly like what you are used to at home - why do you bother traveling at all?

There are &quot;glass half full&quot; people, and &quot;glass half empty&quot; people - OK fine, I can deal w/ both types (and have probably been both at different times/places). But I guess there are also &quot;glass totally empty&quot; people who really just enjoy complaining more than anything else. . . . .

clevelandbrown

I would suggest that it is Americans who are flexible, while Europeans are much less so.

For a relatively small area, where travel is so common, Europeans seem to have retained their national ways to a high degree. That is why the traveller finds unique experiences in the various lands. Not to belittle any one, but I think the French are unlikely to adopt something that they view as English, and the English are just as unlikely to adopt something that they view as French.

America, in sharp contrast, adopts as its own anything that it finds attractive. Our language is filled with words we have adopted from other languages, to the extent that most of us do not know the roots of words like honcho, or adios; we consider them American. Similarly, many of our most popular foods don't have American roots; we have just made them American because we like them.

Further, regional differences between the soveriegn states are all but gone. The Georgia drawl and the Texas twang are now found only in the movies. If you awoke in a strange hotel in America and turned on the TV, you would not know if you were in Washington or New Jersey.

In some ways, I decry the American flexibility. I think we don't value our own history, and would sooner raze a building and build a new one, than restore the original. In my own town, we are spending millions of dollars to tear down and replace schools, because some of them were almost a hundred years old, and the educational cabal convinced the voters that they could not teach is such old buildings. So my grandchildren will never have the opportunity to attend the schools my wife and I (and her parents) attended, nor find where someone had carved our initials.

ira

One of our fondest memories is of a visit, to Paris some years ago, when my Lady Wife (who refuses to accept that you can't just stop for a glass of wine at 4:00 PM) and I stopped in at a rather nice place and asked if it would be possible to have a glass of wine.

The maitre d' graciously permitted us to have a small table on the back patio, and we were served two glasses of white wine.

After about 15 min, the chef came out with two little plates and said, &quot;Here, taste&quot;.

For the next hour we were treated to hors d'oeuvres and wine, and asked our opinion of each.

We were billed for 2 glasses of house wine.

Alas, the restaurant is no longer there.

I think that this is an example of &quot;flexibility&quot;.

suze

&lt;&lt;the economy is stagnating&gt;&gt;

Wow I think that would be a surprise for all of Europe to hear about. If that is true, why is the euro so strong against the USD?

suze

While I disagree completley with your viewpoint, also I think you chose lousy examples to attempt to express them.

The restaurant complaint is completely ridiculous. I know I already said this but it is amazing to me that you would expect a restaurant that was not serving at the time to just run &quot;make us a sandwich&quot;.

Cindi- You really can't see how crazy that sounds?

kswl

Cleveland Brown: Them's fightin' words!

&quot;The Georgia drawl and the Texas twang are now found only in the movies.&quot;

My sister-in-law from Houston would snatch you bald-headed for that!

CRAZY4TRAVEL

I have to totally agree with janisj. cindiloowho sounds like a girl with an empty cup who instead of making a good case for her argument comes up with new complaints with every new post.

clevelandbrown

kswl,

Too late, mother nature beat her to it.