Are ALL meals eaten leisurely in Italy?
Jun 22nd, 2005, 06:49 PM
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Are ALL meals eaten leisurely in Italy?
I've read much about leisurely dinners being the norm but haven't seen breakfast or lunch referred to. We're not planning to eat anything in a big rush, but wondered if all that is said about appropriate dinner behavior, i.e. not rushing through your meal, asking for the check and rushing out the door also applies to the other meals as well. Thanks
Jun 22nd, 2005, 06:55 PM
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No one cares how long (and certainly not how <i>little</i> time) you take at breakfast (well... a couple of hours would be rather weird. I think...
and at a paninoteca (sandwich shop), no one would bat an eye at sitting for 15 minutes; in fact over 45 would seem unusual, I think...
Best wishes,
Rex
and at a paninoteca (sandwich shop), no one would bat an eye at sitting for 15 minutes; in fact over 45 would seem unusual, I think...
Best wishes,
Rex
Jun 22nd, 2005, 11:50 PM
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Hi KGS, Italians really do not eat breakfast as we in the US think of breakfast. A quick espresso starts the day and later a snack with perhaps another espresso. Lunch in the major cities is like in the US. No longer do the residents of major cities in Italy enjoy a leisurely lunch, it is "catch it on the run". Smaller places will have a longer lunch if there is an older woman in the house to prepare it. The younger woman in Italy are like in the US, they are working women.
Dinners in the evening do take place, and last longer than in the US. And Sunday dinner can be a family event.
But Italy like many parts of the world no longer has the customs of a few decades ago. Women work, Italy has the lowest birthrate in the world, elders are put into "old folks homes" etc.
For the traveller in Italy one can pick and choose as they please. A long leisurly lunch and a lighter dinner or a quick lunch and a longer relaxed dinner.
Dinners in the evening do take place, and last longer than in the US. And Sunday dinner can be a family event.
But Italy like many parts of the world no longer has the customs of a few decades ago. Women work, Italy has the lowest birthrate in the world, elders are put into "old folks homes" etc.
For the traveller in Italy one can pick and choose as they please. A long leisurly lunch and a lighter dinner or a quick lunch and a longer relaxed dinner.
Jun 23rd, 2005, 12:30 AM
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When I lived in Italy there were plenty of people who spent a good deal of time over all meals, including breakfast.
Unfortunately, when you are a visitor there you often only observe those folks, often in cities, who fir the "mold" described by LoveItaly. I dare say if you visited Manhattan on a usual workday morning you'd probably see similar behavior since the majority of people you would observe would be those going to work.
To generalize that this is the way everybody in Italy thinks about and takes their meals is pushing it more than a little bit in my experience.
Unfortunately, when you are a visitor there you often only observe those folks, often in cities, who fir the "mold" described by LoveItaly. I dare say if you visited Manhattan on a usual workday morning you'd probably see similar behavior since the majority of people you would observe would be those going to work.
To generalize that this is the way everybody in Italy thinks about and takes their meals is pushing it more than a little bit in my experience.
Jun 23rd, 2005, 12:48 AM
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Hi Intrepid, not sure if I understand what you are trying to convey? Or am I so tired that I am being dense?
Are you agreeing with me or disagreeing? Sorry for being confused.
If you have time could you go into further explination. Thanks.
Are you agreeing with me or disagreeing? Sorry for being confused.
If you have time could you go into further explination. Thanks.
Jun 23rd, 2005, 12:56 AM
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Don't get paranoid LoveItaly, I think he's sort of agreeing with you. He's saying that whilst there ARE italians who enjoy their leisurely meals, you're just as, or more, likely to see workers rushing through their lunches.
Jun 23rd, 2005, 01:05 AM
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Yes, Kate..that is what I was trying to convey. I have seen plenty of folks who live in Italy taking their time over meals, including breakfast. I don't think EVERYONE in the country is as "rushed" at breakfast as are the many people that visitors observe rushing off to work in the larger cities such as Rome.
But, again, this comes from my own personal experience gleaned from having actually lived in Italy for a while...perhaps I wasn't as observant as some other folks and if that is the case then I apologize for confusing the issue or the facts for the original poster.
But, again, this comes from my own personal experience gleaned from having actually lived in Italy for a while...perhaps I wasn't as observant as some other folks and if that is the case then I apologize for confusing the issue or the facts for the original poster.
Jun 23rd, 2005, 01:50 AM
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Hi Kate, please be assured I am not the least bit paranoid, why would I be? Just truly did not understand what Intrepid was trying to explain. My fault, not his, as I am very tired due to a three week family crises in Rome which has also caused a lot of problems here in CA so I am feeling rather dense, LOL. I personally appreciate both of you responding to my question. Thank you.
When I am in Italy I am not there as a tourist. When I go to Italy I guess you could say I am there as a temporary resident. That is the reason that I often feel I am not able to answer travellers questions although I guess if I started keeping a journal I probably could add something to more post.
Anyway, my experience with Italians (be it a major city like Rome or Milan for example) a smaller city (to many to mention) or what could be described as villages is that Italians do not sit down to a "typical American breakfast". I am talking about Italian residents in their homes or on their way to work. Lunch time, around 1:30pm depends on whether the "woman of the house" is a homemaker or has household help or is a career woman. Dinner I have almost always found is the time for the family to sit down and spend some time together although young people do not always join in as they once did. But for sure I have not seen in Italy the lack of dinner time as we seem to have in the US. Regarding restaurants, Italians families go to them and enjoy doing so but it is worked around their very busy schedules. But when they go they do not rush through the meal as we often see in the US. They do take the time to relax and make an evening of it.
As far as visitors to Italy I would encourage them to do whatever works for them. I do not think they are going to find many bacon and eggs type of breakfast but evidently many hotels do serve eggs etc. now to cater to tourist. And lunch and dinner can be as short or as long time wise, as simple or as extensive as a traveller wants.
When I am in Italy I am not there as a tourist. When I go to Italy I guess you could say I am there as a temporary resident. That is the reason that I often feel I am not able to answer travellers questions although I guess if I started keeping a journal I probably could add something to more post.
Anyway, my experience with Italians (be it a major city like Rome or Milan for example) a smaller city (to many to mention) or what could be described as villages is that Italians do not sit down to a "typical American breakfast". I am talking about Italian residents in their homes or on their way to work. Lunch time, around 1:30pm depends on whether the "woman of the house" is a homemaker or has household help or is a career woman. Dinner I have almost always found is the time for the family to sit down and spend some time together although young people do not always join in as they once did. But for sure I have not seen in Italy the lack of dinner time as we seem to have in the US. Regarding restaurants, Italians families go to them and enjoy doing so but it is worked around their very busy schedules. But when they go they do not rush through the meal as we often see in the US. They do take the time to relax and make an evening of it.
As far as visitors to Italy I would encourage them to do whatever works for them. I do not think they are going to find many bacon and eggs type of breakfast but evidently many hotels do serve eggs etc. now to cater to tourist. And lunch and dinner can be as short or as long time wise, as simple or as extensive as a traveller wants.
Jun 23rd, 2005, 03:28 AM
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With humble advance apologies to Loveitaly, whose lengthy comments on these forums about what is and isn't true in Italy are always interesting, the friends and families I've visited in Italy don't always seem to follow the rigid generalized patterns mentioned.
As this is a tourists' forum, though, I think a simple, light-hearted response to KGS' OP will suffice.
Here's goes my brief 2 cents:
Sometimes Italian residents, even in major cities, enjoy leisurely lunches. Tourists always can too, if they wish, but it's OK to be in a hurry, and if you need the check so you can leave more quickly, just politely ask for it, as it might not be offered first, as in the US.
Sometimes it's nice to use a trip in Italy as a chance to enjoy the leisurely way of eating, which is one of life's best enjoyments.
(I live in NYC, where if you don't physically hold your plate down, the busboys are capable of sweeping it off the table even before your fork is down! Yikes! )
Breakfast is hotels is often a buffet, so you control how much time you take with it. Italians do like the shot of espresso to start the day; I agree with Loveitaly there, and it's nice to go to the coffee bars in the morning to have a single espresso and a roll standing up, you hear some good conversations that way.
A non tourist thought: Many Italian men are excellent cooks, I've enjoyed several wonderful home cooked meals created by the man of the house. So it's not just "an older woman at home" who does all the preparation of lunch.
Italy is a country made up of many small and diverse regions, and regional customs are not necessarily universal.
As this is a tourists' forum, though, I think a simple, light-hearted response to KGS' OP will suffice.
Here's goes my brief 2 cents:
Sometimes Italian residents, even in major cities, enjoy leisurely lunches. Tourists always can too, if they wish, but it's OK to be in a hurry, and if you need the check so you can leave more quickly, just politely ask for it, as it might not be offered first, as in the US.
Sometimes it's nice to use a trip in Italy as a chance to enjoy the leisurely way of eating, which is one of life's best enjoyments.
(I live in NYC, where if you don't physically hold your plate down, the busboys are capable of sweeping it off the table even before your fork is down! Yikes! )
Breakfast is hotels is often a buffet, so you control how much time you take with it. Italians do like the shot of espresso to start the day; I agree with Loveitaly there, and it's nice to go to the coffee bars in the morning to have a single espresso and a roll standing up, you hear some good conversations that way.
A non tourist thought: Many Italian men are excellent cooks, I've enjoyed several wonderful home cooked meals created by the man of the house. So it's not just "an older woman at home" who does all the preparation of lunch.
Italy is a country made up of many small and diverse regions, and regional customs are not necessarily universal.
Jun 23rd, 2005, 03:51 AM
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Hi, KGS-
Here's what I've experienced in Italy:
Breakfast for me and for many takes place in a "bar." Caffe or cappuccino and cornetto(wonderful Italian version of croissant ,usually hot,sometimes filled with fruit or custare.)This is usually eaten standing at the bar with everyone else-you will feel very Italian.
Lunch-if you sit in a restaurant with wait service,they will expect you to be there a good long while!It doesn't mean you have to,but that's the expectation.
You will have to ask for "il conto" the check,maybe twice. They never want you to feel rushed.If we're talking about "pizza al taglio" by the slice,or any other fast type of food ,you can do what you like.
Dinner- like lunch,the table is yours for the evening.
Here's what I've experienced in Italy:
Breakfast for me and for many takes place in a "bar." Caffe or cappuccino and cornetto(wonderful Italian version of croissant ,usually hot,sometimes filled with fruit or custare.)This is usually eaten standing at the bar with everyone else-you will feel very Italian.
Lunch-if you sit in a restaurant with wait service,they will expect you to be there a good long while!It doesn't mean you have to,but that's the expectation.
You will have to ask for "il conto" the check,maybe twice. They never want you to feel rushed.If we're talking about "pizza al taglio" by the slice,or any other fast type of food ,you can do what you like.
Dinner- like lunch,the table is yours for the evening.
Jun 23rd, 2005, 05:59 AM
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Thank you all for your interersting replies. Our family leaves in 2 weeks for Italy. Because we are renting a villa, we expect to eat most breakfasts and dinners at home - although we will certainly treat ourselves a few times - but will be out most days and have many places we would like to visit. Some days I expect we'll be on a tighter schedule than others and so didn't want to offend if we had to eat and run on some of them.
Jun 23rd, 2005, 08:43 AM
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Eat as quickly or as slowly as you want to. It's your money, your time. You don't want to do anything especially impolite, but I doubt that most Italians would care if some tourists ate more quickly than they did.
Especially in the big cities, most Italians are not extreme ethnocentric, country bumpkins who expect people from other countries and cultures to do everything exactly the way they do.
Especially in the big cities, most Italians are not extreme ethnocentric, country bumpkins who expect people from other countries and cultures to do everything exactly the way they do.
Anywhere ! It's my money and my time, I don't care anyone thoughts !
Jun 23rd, 2005, 11:12 AM
#15
I think this can be solved by picking appropriate restaurants for the kind of meal you want. A stand-up counter for a quick breakfast coffee and pastry, and simple cafe for a quick lunch, etc.
I can't believe all meals eaten by all Italians every day are "leisurely".
I can't believe all meals eaten by all Italians every day are "leisurely".
Jun 23rd, 2005, 12:08 PM
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Well Bellastar, among all my friends in Italy there is not one man that ever prepares lunch. If they are retired they usually have lunch at home which has been prepared for them. If they work (which is the great majority of my friends) they return home for lunch and then relax or snooze for awhile until they go back to work or they eat out in a restaurant but it is not a long leisurely one. Most of the people have their own businesses. Others have very demanding jobs basically for big corporations.
Some of the men do cook and they are fantastic cooks but it is more of a hobby type of activity for them, in otherwords when they are in the mood.
All I can offer is what I know just as all you can offer is what you know as obviously we do not know the same Italians.
Thanks Intrepid for the nice thought, it is appreciated. Take care.
Some of the men do cook and they are fantastic cooks but it is more of a hobby type of activity for them, in otherwords when they are in the mood.
All I can offer is what I know just as all you can offer is what you know as obviously we do not know the same Italians.
Thanks Intrepid for the nice thought, it is appreciated. Take care.
Jun 23rd, 2005, 01:21 PM
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And let me add that in my 25 years of going in and out of Italy, through studying, working, being with Italians and oh yes, just traveling around, that I have to say LoveItaly's assessment of modern Italian life is pretty much right on the money. Italian women really DON'T cook as much anymore, they are too busy working-the Italian economy is in terrible shape right now, everybody's got to work if they can to make ends meet-and no, I can't say that I've ever seen any Italian man cook in the home (not even chefs-not to say there are no men who cook in the home -we are of course generalizing to a certain degree here- but I would definitely say that would not be anywhere close to the norm).
To see a good example of the way Italians eat today, check out the alimentari (small grocery stores) in Italy. Since I was in Venice some months ago, (and will be back there in August) I went in a couple and was surprised to see a big freezer full of solely Buitoni ready-made pasta and microwave Buitoni products. Mind you, this was not in a supermarket, but the really small grocery stores. I also saw this same Buitoni freezer in a couple of Venetian bars over by the Frari (I mention this, because I've been eating Buitoni fresh pasta products in this country for over a decade). So obviously, it's not just Americans that go the microwave dinner route, it's become a part of modern life in Italy as well. In virtually all apts. that I've seen in the big three-Rome, Venice, Florence, there was a distinct dearth of dishwashers, but all of them had microwaves!
I'm also thinking of this evening soap opera I watched in Rome some time ago about a young Italian working woman who invited her parents over for Sunday dinner to her apartment and she had cooked the spaghetti way too long-it was inedible... you get the idea-the sitcom was making a point about modern Italian life in the cities-it's not really about all those lovely long meals with bottles of wine that most of us go there for-the reality of daily life in Italy is pretty darn tough.
So you shouldn't feel the least bit improper for just eating and going-partic. for so-called "breakfast" in Italy (just a cappucino and a sweet roll, for the most part, bigger breakfasts are served in locandas and hotels to accomodate foreign tourists) and lunch. In both the big cities and smaller towns, you'll fit right in to do so.
To see a good example of the way Italians eat today, check out the alimentari (small grocery stores) in Italy. Since I was in Venice some months ago, (and will be back there in August) I went in a couple and was surprised to see a big freezer full of solely Buitoni ready-made pasta and microwave Buitoni products. Mind you, this was not in a supermarket, but the really small grocery stores. I also saw this same Buitoni freezer in a couple of Venetian bars over by the Frari (I mention this, because I've been eating Buitoni fresh pasta products in this country for over a decade). So obviously, it's not just Americans that go the microwave dinner route, it's become a part of modern life in Italy as well. In virtually all apts. that I've seen in the big three-Rome, Venice, Florence, there was a distinct dearth of dishwashers, but all of them had microwaves!
I'm also thinking of this evening soap opera I watched in Rome some time ago about a young Italian working woman who invited her parents over for Sunday dinner to her apartment and she had cooked the spaghetti way too long-it was inedible... you get the idea-the sitcom was making a point about modern Italian life in the cities-it's not really about all those lovely long meals with bottles of wine that most of us go there for-the reality of daily life in Italy is pretty darn tough.
So you shouldn't feel the least bit improper for just eating and going-partic. for so-called "breakfast" in Italy (just a cappucino and a sweet roll, for the most part, bigger breakfasts are served in locandas and hotels to accomodate foreign tourists) and lunch. In both the big cities and smaller towns, you'll fit right in to do so.
Jun 23rd, 2005, 01:22 PM
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Loveitaly,
your response sounds, well, just a little bit defensive, though I'm not sure why.
Noone here has really disagreed with you, just that others (including me) have different experiences than yours. That should be OK, and it certainly doesn't mean that either person must be wrong for the other one to be right.
It's clear that you take great pride in your connection to Italy, and as I said before, my humblest of apologies if I don't agree with every detail of your information.
If I remember from other posts of yours, you have a Son-in-Law from Rome, so I'm sure you have strong ties. I have some good friends from Rome that I've known for about 15 years, and I've found over the years that they love the energy of a good debate as much as anything. And they have the great gift of knowing how to laugh at peoples' differences rather than take offense. Hope you do too!
"Take good care",
Bellastar
your response sounds, well, just a little bit defensive, though I'm not sure why.
Noone here has really disagreed with you, just that others (including me) have different experiences than yours. That should be OK, and it certainly doesn't mean that either person must be wrong for the other one to be right.
It's clear that you take great pride in your connection to Italy, and as I said before, my humblest of apologies if I don't agree with every detail of your information.
If I remember from other posts of yours, you have a Son-in-Law from Rome, so I'm sure you have strong ties. I have some good friends from Rome that I've known for about 15 years, and I've found over the years that they love the energy of a good debate as much as anything. And they have the great gift of knowing how to laugh at peoples' differences rather than take offense. Hope you do too!
"Take good care",
Bellastar
Jun 23rd, 2005, 01:44 PM
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Hi Bellastar, no offense taken. Am very tired and stressed as my SIL & daughter are in Rome and have been for about two and a half weeks now as both of SIL's parents are in two different hospitals, his father is a "vegtable" so to speak but in Italy the family has no say regarding the medical care so he is being "kept alive" and SIL's mother is another hospital with a mental breakdown. SIL has no siblings, but fortunatly there is a lot of family there but basically most of them just want to wring their hands and talk about the problems all day without really doing anything to help with the exception of two wonderful cousins. A big mess for sure. And here in CA there has been one trauma after another with my two grandsons. You know how it goes, when it rains it pours.
I have never felt that I take pride in my connection to Italy - it is just that I have always had a lot of connection with Italy (at the moment I wish I didn't, LOL), it is just a fact of my life since the time I was born.
I wish that I could go to Italy and just be a tourist to tell you the truth. I envy those that can. It would be paradise IMO. Best wishes.
I have never felt that I take pride in my connection to Italy - it is just that I have always had a lot of connection with Italy (at the moment I wish I didn't, LOL), it is just a fact of my life since the time I was born.
I wish that I could go to Italy and just be a tourist to tell you the truth. I envy those that can. It would be paradise IMO. Best wishes.
Jun 23rd, 2005, 02:50 PM
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Sorry to hear of all your personal trials, how stressful for everyone.
We all have times when life seems like an unbearable passage, I won't burden you further with any details of my own, (which i don't like to share online anyway) but I have learned that in times of greatest stress it helps to find little bits of humor, so here's an ironic one for you in hopes of lending a smile.
My friend R., (who came here from Bologna 2 years ago and used to be my Italian teacher) is on his way over here for dinner as I write.
I invited him, but when I mentioned the comments here about Italian men and cooking, he offered right away to prove his skills when he gets here, so thanks for being part of getting me a free meal- hope it's good! We'll see....!
best,
Blstr
We all have times when life seems like an unbearable passage, I won't burden you further with any details of my own, (which i don't like to share online anyway) but I have learned that in times of greatest stress it helps to find little bits of humor, so here's an ironic one for you in hopes of lending a smile.
My friend R., (who came here from Bologna 2 years ago and used to be my Italian teacher) is on his way over here for dinner as I write.
I invited him, but when I mentioned the comments here about Italian men and cooking, he offered right away to prove his skills when he gets here, so thanks for being part of getting me a free meal- hope it's good! We'll see....!
best,
Blstr
