Train passes vs. point to point tickets
Dec 29th, 2011, 05:50 AM
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Train passes vs. point to point tickets
My husband and I and our two teenaged daughters will be traveling to Europe for 12 nights in June and July. We fly into Frankfurt and plan to travel by train to Paris, Normandy (day trip), Interlaken, Florence, Rome, Venice and back to Frankfurt with a side trip in Switzerland on the Jungfrau railway.
--Does it make more sense to prebuy the 5 country, 15 day Eurail passes or to purchase point to point tickets for each of these legs?
--Would the junfrau railway trip and the Eurostar trip to Normandy also be covered under our Eurail passes?
--Does it make more sense to prebuy the 5 country, 15 day Eurail passes or to purchase point to point tickets for each of these legs?
--Would the junfrau railway trip and the Eurostar trip to Normandy also be covered under our Eurail passes?
Dec 29th, 2011, 06:00 AM
#2
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Let the fun begin...
To start with I suggest you take a look at travel times using www.bahn.de to get a feel for how much time you'll be spending on trains, then think hard about whether you want to move around so much.
Next, here's a good movie to watch before your trip. Definitely a classic.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0064471/
To start with I suggest you take a look at travel times using www.bahn.de to get a feel for how much time you'll be spending on trains, then think hard about whether you want to move around so much.
Next, here's a good movie to watch before your trip. Definitely a classic.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0064471/
Dec 29th, 2011, 06:11 AM
#3
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12 nights isn't enough for all that. Not clear why you don't do the Jungfrau while you're in Interlaken instead of returning there at the end of your trip, or why you wouldn't fly into Paris and out of Italy so as not to waste time and money on all that rail travel - it seems like you aren't seeing anything in Germany.
I could see 4 nights in Paris, 3 in Interlaken (long trip there from Paris) (w/Jungfrau), 4 in Rome and then 1 in Florence, but then you're suddenly out of nights.
If it were my trip at that time of year, I'd skip Rome and Florence - too hot, too crowded, and you'll spend most of your precious little time waiting in lines to see what you're there to see. See Normandy, but spend a night there at least, for goodness sakes! You won't see much on a daytrip. Caen, Bayeux, Arromanches and the D-Day beaches are worth a little time! I don't think you'll find a Eurostar train to get there. You can take the train to Caen and rent a car there, or rent from Paris.
I'd do it like this, without a railpass:
Fly into Zurich, train to Interlaken for 3-4 nights w/Jungfrau trip.
Train to Paris for 4 nights. Trip to Normandy for 2 nights.
Fly Paris to Venice for 2-3 nights.
I could see 4 nights in Paris, 3 in Interlaken (long trip there from Paris) (w/Jungfrau), 4 in Rome and then 1 in Florence, but then you're suddenly out of nights.
If it were my trip at that time of year, I'd skip Rome and Florence - too hot, too crowded, and you'll spend most of your precious little time waiting in lines to see what you're there to see. See Normandy, but spend a night there at least, for goodness sakes! You won't see much on a daytrip. Caen, Bayeux, Arromanches and the D-Day beaches are worth a little time! I don't think you'll find a Eurostar train to get there. You can take the train to Caen and rent a car there, or rent from Paris.
I'd do it like this, without a railpass:
Fly into Zurich, train to Interlaken for 3-4 nights w/Jungfrau trip.
Train to Paris for 4 nights. Trip to Normandy for 2 nights.
Fly Paris to Venice for 2-3 nights.
Dec 29th, 2011, 06:54 AM
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If you take a full day guided tour of the D-Day beaches, you'll need to spend one night in Normandy.
For a list comparing all types of passes and discount cards for Swiss trains, go here: http://tinyurl.com/3lghr49. With a Swiss Family Card children under 16 ride free.
If you book well in advance (up to 90 days) on national rail sites, you can get discount fare tickets that will be much cheaper than railpasses. Those tickets are for a specific date and departure time and are non-exchangeable and non-refundable.
As painful as it may be, please cut out some places on your list. Your balance between sightseeing time and travel time is way out of whack. It's more than getting from point A to point B. It also takes time to check into a hotel and get orientated to a brand new place. You can't just get off a train or plane and hit the ground running.
For a list comparing all types of passes and discount cards for Swiss trains, go here: http://tinyurl.com/3lghr49. With a Swiss Family Card children under 16 ride free.
If you book well in advance (up to 90 days) on national rail sites, you can get discount fare tickets that will be much cheaper than railpasses. Those tickets are for a specific date and departure time and are non-exchangeable and non-refundable.
As painful as it may be, please cut out some places on your list. Your balance between sightseeing time and travel time is way out of whack. It's more than getting from point A to point B. It also takes time to check into a hotel and get orientated to a brand new place. You can't just get off a train or plane and hit the ground running.
Dec 29th, 2011, 07:23 AM
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Adding to my previous post. It's possible to take a train from Paris to Bayeux in the morning, take an afternoon guided D-Day tour, and return to Paris in the evening. But, as I said, taking a full day tour requires staying overnight the night before the tour. The first morning train from Paris doesn't arrive in Bayeux until after morning tours begin.
Dec 29th, 2011, 07:35 AM
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Thanks for all the great advice. The places I mentioned are not set in stone, but they are all requests from family members, and I wanted to start researching possibilities. The flights in and out of Frankfurt are not flexible as we are using certain frequent flyer points and the flights are already booked.
TimS - My husband and i have visited Normandy before, and our girls are very interested in WWII history but would not enjoy a large amount of time focused on military details of the invasion. Is the full day tour worth our checking into? We are definitely open to a night spent in that area.
TimS - My husband and i have visited Normandy before, and our girls are very interested in WWII history but would not enjoy a large amount of time focused on military details of the invasion. Is the full day tour worth our checking into? We are definitely open to a night spent in that area.
Dec 29th, 2011, 08:06 AM
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You can't do all that in 12 days, so something's got to give. It really doesn't make much sense at all to fly into and out of Germany if you have only 12 days and are planning to visit two completely different countries.
Assuming you can get to France easily, if Normandy is important to you, plan to spend the night; the Mémorial museum in Caen alone can take half a day to visit, and that's before you head out to the beaches and cemeteries and other sites.
I think the whole plan needs some serious rethinking, starting with gauging distances on a map and checking out travel times between places whether by air or by train.
Assuming you can get to France easily, if Normandy is important to you, plan to spend the night; the Mémorial museum in Caen alone can take half a day to visit, and that's before you head out to the beaches and cemeteries and other sites.
I think the whole plan needs some serious rethinking, starting with gauging distances on a map and checking out travel times between places whether by air or by train.
Dec 29th, 2011, 08:52 AM
#8
You have listed 7 out of your 12 days as travel days (do you have 12 days or are you counting arrival/departure and actually only have 10?). You really only plan to spend 3 days sightseeing? I don't think you want to spend your trip on a train and in train stations. Four places max with only 12 days (three if you only have 10).
Dec 29th, 2011, 10:52 AM
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First, a disclaimer. I haven't been to Normandy, but I've read a lot of threads about seeing the D-Day beaches because I hope to get there one day. Two guided tours that consistently get excellent reviews are overlordtour.com and ddayhistorian.com. Overlordtour offers half-day tours, but ddayhistorian doesn't. Many people have posted notes saying that a full-day tour is better than a half-day tour and a two-day tour is even better. Since you've been to Normandy before and know the limits of your daughters' interests, I'll leave it to you to pick what's best. However, if you do a day trip and don't stay overnight, you could visit the WWII museum in Caen in the morning on the way to Bayeux and take an afternoon tour. Or you could visit the museum in Bayeux and see the Bayeux Tapestry in the morning and then go on an afternoon tour.
Dec 29th, 2011, 11:07 AM
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Some continuing thoughts for your consideration. Take the train from Frankfurt to Paris. Since your time is limited, I suggest that you do a day trip to Normandy--if you go there at all. Take the train to Interlaken--and on to Jungfraujoch. Take the train to Italy, but don't try to see all the cities on your list. Take the train back to Frankfurt. If your last place in Italy is Venice, you could travel during the day from Venice to Frankfurt or you could take the CNL night train from Venice to Munich and an express train from there to Frankfurt.
Dec 29th, 2011, 11:58 AM
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Pass is the second biggest rip off in Europe for me after
money changers high base cost many surcharges been that way for 15 years or so. Better to hop regional trains like a local
there are usually family group rates.Typical rookie euroewbie
error to cram too much in.Pare back ricksteves.com good tips
eurocheapo.com good budget tips.Not a fan of sleepers couchettes truly suck beds suck and cost more than cheap hotel
seat61.com for pictures.
Have fun,
money changers high base cost many surcharges been that way for 15 years or so. Better to hop regional trains like a local
there are usually family group rates.Typical rookie euroewbie
error to cram too much in.Pare back ricksteves.com good tips
eurocheapo.com good budget tips.Not a fan of sleepers couchettes truly suck beds suck and cost more than cheap hotel
seat61.com for pictures.
Have fun,
Dec 29th, 2011, 07:10 PM
#13
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"The flights in and out of Frankfurt are not flexible..."
OK. It makes sense to drop all of Italy in that case, as Tim suggests. There's just too much transport involved otherwise.
See Paris, Normandy, and the Berner Oberland (Interlaken, etc.) And since you've decided to fly both in and out of Frankfurt, see something of Germany near there for a couple of days.
I'd suggest Trier and the Mosel River, which lie roughly between Paris and Frankfurt. Trier was Roman Emperor Constantine's abode; his cathedral is Germany's oldest. Lots of Roman stuff there, so you can scratch Rome off your list
. From FRA: a ticket to Mainz is 3.90 each; from Mainz, a Rheinland-Pfalz daypass (see link below), 33€ for 4 passengers, gets you all to Trier via the scenic Rhine and Mosel Rivers, total is about 49€.
Your first day will involve settling in and trying to stay awake, hopefully some sightseeing; I'd suggest two nights there and much of Day 3. Besides Trier, take a daytrip on Day 2 to Burg Eltz Castle and nearby Cochem, a 50-minute train ride, 33€ for 4 with the Rheinland-Pfalz ticket: http://www.vrminfo.de/en/tickets-and...-pfalz-ticket/
In the afternoon of Day 3, head to Paris, only 3 hours away; the 5:48 pm departure from Trier pulls into Paris at 8:54 pm. You can get tickets for 29€ each at www.reiseauskunft.bahn.de 92 days in advance.
www.burg-eltz.de (walk from Moselkern train station: www.bensbauernhof.com/burgeltzfrommoselkern.html )
Cochem's Reichsburg Castle Falconry show: 4 shows daily at 11:00, 1:00, 2:30, 4 pm; no shows Mon.
http://www.falknerei-reichsburg-coch...vorfuhrung.htm
http://www.falknerei-reichsburg-cochem.de/fotobuch.htm
http://wikitravel.org/en/Trier
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Trier_Steipe_BW_0.JPG
So.. Trier (2 nights), Paris (4), Bayeux? (2) Interlaken (3) Frankfurt or Mainz (for access to FRA, 1) = 12 nights
To return from Switzerland to Mainz, get advance sale tickets from the German railways site above 92 days in advance. Sample low fare: Luzern - Mainz or Frankfurt is 39€ each.
OK, so for your fares for FRA-Trier-Moselkern-Trier-Paris and Luzern-Mainz, you'll pay about 90€ each.
Perhaps others can advise you on Paris-Normandy-Switzerland fares.
OK. It makes sense to drop all of Italy in that case, as Tim suggests. There's just too much transport involved otherwise.
See Paris, Normandy, and the Berner Oberland (Interlaken, etc.) And since you've decided to fly both in and out of Frankfurt, see something of Germany near there for a couple of days.
I'd suggest Trier and the Mosel River, which lie roughly between Paris and Frankfurt. Trier was Roman Emperor Constantine's abode; his cathedral is Germany's oldest. Lots of Roman stuff there, so you can scratch Rome off your list
. From FRA: a ticket to Mainz is 3.90 each; from Mainz, a Rheinland-Pfalz daypass (see link below), 33€ for 4 passengers, gets you all to Trier via the scenic Rhine and Mosel Rivers, total is about 49€.Your first day will involve settling in and trying to stay awake, hopefully some sightseeing; I'd suggest two nights there and much of Day 3. Besides Trier, take a daytrip on Day 2 to Burg Eltz Castle and nearby Cochem, a 50-minute train ride, 33€ for 4 with the Rheinland-Pfalz ticket: http://www.vrminfo.de/en/tickets-and...-pfalz-ticket/
In the afternoon of Day 3, head to Paris, only 3 hours away; the 5:48 pm departure from Trier pulls into Paris at 8:54 pm. You can get tickets for 29€ each at www.reiseauskunft.bahn.de 92 days in advance.
www.burg-eltz.de (walk from Moselkern train station: www.bensbauernhof.com/burgeltzfrommoselkern.html )
Cochem's Reichsburg Castle Falconry show: 4 shows daily at 11:00, 1:00, 2:30, 4 pm; no shows Mon.
http://www.falknerei-reichsburg-coch...vorfuhrung.htm
http://www.falknerei-reichsburg-cochem.de/fotobuch.htm
http://wikitravel.org/en/Trier
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Trier_Steipe_BW_0.JPG
So.. Trier (2 nights), Paris (4), Bayeux? (2) Interlaken (3) Frankfurt or Mainz (for access to FRA, 1) = 12 nights
To return from Switzerland to Mainz, get advance sale tickets from the German railways site above 92 days in advance. Sample low fare: Luzern - Mainz or Frankfurt is 39€ each.
OK, so for your fares for FRA-Trier-Moselkern-Trier-Paris and Luzern-Mainz, you'll pay about 90€ each.
Perhaps others can advise you on Paris-Normandy-Switzerland fares.
Dec 30th, 2011, 11:52 AM
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Even though I suggested limiting yourselves to a day trip to Normandy, you could maximize your time in Paris and still stay overnight in Bayeux in order to take a full day D-Day tour. You could leave Paris at 18:10 and arrive in Bayeux at 20:15 or leave at 20:45 and arrive at 23:04. Advance purchase Prem's fares are as low as €15 each way.
Russ has given you some great ideas for seeing a bit of Germany on your way to Paris. However, if you want to go straight from Frankfurt to Paris, you can do so on a direct ICE train in under four hours for as little as €39/person with children under 15 riding free.
Paris to Interlaken requires a connection in Basel. If you book well in advance on the SNCF site, you can get a Piccolissimo fare as low as €25 for Paris-Basel.
Although I suggested that you consider skipping Italy altogether, I'll give you some fares for Interlaken-Venice and Venice-Frankfurt. You'll need to travel Interlaken-Spiez-Milan-Venice. If you book well in advance on the Swiss Rail site, you can get a discount fare as low as 34 CHF for Interlaken-Milan. Make a separate booking on the Trenitalia site for Milan-Venice to get a Mini fare as low as €26.
You can travel Venice-Verona-Munich-Frankfurt during the day. Book Venice-Verona on the Trenitalia site to get a Mini fare as low as €16. Book Verona-Frankfurt (connection in Munich) on the German Rail site to get a Europa-Spezial Italien fare as low as €39/person with children under 15 riding free.
Or make one booking on the German Rail site which will include the CNL night train from Venice to Munich and an ICE train from there to Frankfurt. You'll all fit in a four-person couchette and you can get discount fares for the entire ride.
Russ has given you some great ideas for seeing a bit of Germany on your way to Paris. However, if you want to go straight from Frankfurt to Paris, you can do so on a direct ICE train in under four hours for as little as €39/person with children under 15 riding free.
Paris to Interlaken requires a connection in Basel. If you book well in advance on the SNCF site, you can get a Piccolissimo fare as low as €25 for Paris-Basel.
Although I suggested that you consider skipping Italy altogether, I'll give you some fares for Interlaken-Venice and Venice-Frankfurt. You'll need to travel Interlaken-Spiez-Milan-Venice. If you book well in advance on the Swiss Rail site, you can get a discount fare as low as 34 CHF for Interlaken-Milan. Make a separate booking on the Trenitalia site for Milan-Venice to get a Mini fare as low as €26.
You can travel Venice-Verona-Munich-Frankfurt during the day. Book Venice-Verona on the Trenitalia site to get a Mini fare as low as €16. Book Verona-Frankfurt (connection in Munich) on the German Rail site to get a Europa-Spezial Italien fare as low as €39/person with children under 15 riding free.
Or make one booking on the German Rail site which will include the CNL night train from Venice to Munich and an ICE train from there to Frankfurt. You'll all fit in a four-person couchette and you can get discount fares for the entire ride.
Jan 1st, 2012, 10:02 AM
#15
Oh I do hope you reconsider this hot mess! Remember - a night in a city does not equal a full day there. You lose soooooo much time packing/unpacking, checking in/checking out, traveling to/from train stations. You will spend as much time in transit as <i>being</i> anywhere.
Jan 1st, 2012, 10:24 AM
#16
As everyone is mentioning, something needs to go. I also would suggest you leave out Italy entirely.
Since Germany is set in stone, France and *possibly* Switzerland is plenty to attempt in your timeframe. The plan as stated in your OP is simply not do-able.
Since Germany is set in stone, France and *possibly* Switzerland is plenty to attempt in your timeframe. The plan as stated in your OP is simply not do-able.
