akila

So, this will be our first trip to Italy and we are thrilled beyond belief. Yesterday night, we bought our tickets --- we found an AMAZING frequent flier miles deal to Italy so that we will land in Pisa on October 20th, 2007 and leave from Venice on November 4, 2007. (Hint: Check out Delta Skymiles --- for some reason, the Pisa trips are not correctly listd online so they have way more SkySaver trips scheduled than usual --- plus, there is a new route from JFK to Pisa so lots of options --- I even found roundtrip SkySaver tickets to Pisa for this June). I know that it is far away still but I am so excited that I had to start the planning process!

A little about us: we are in our mid-20s (though fast approaching late 20s), love good food (both cooking and eating), are pretty experienced travellers, love art and architecture, and typically, like to travel slowly. This will be our first trip to Italy. We don't have a problem skipping major sights if that means that we can spend more time elsewhere but Italy is a dream trip for both of us and we want to see as much of this amazing country as we can.

Obviously, since we land in Pisa and leave from Venice, we definitely want to spend time in those areas. My husband really wants to see Rome and I do too, but I don't want to see Rome if it means that we have to sacrifice the slow-paced trip that we prefer.

So, couple of questions:
1. Is it stupid to miss Rome on our first trip to Italy?
2. If you had two weeks in Italy, would you spend the time hopping from city to city (i.e. Florence, Rome, Venice) or would you try to stay in the countryside in between?
3. One possible itinerary that I have in mind is to spend a week in a Tuscan villa/apartment and then do day trips into Florence. Is this reasonable or is it better to spend 3 days in Florence and 4 days wandering around Tuscany?

Here are two potential itineraries I have in mind (one includes Rome, one doesn't):

Friday, October 19th - Flight from Atlanta to Pisa
Saturday, October 20th - Arrive Pisa at 11:00 a.m.; See Pisa/Lucca; Drive to villa
Sunday, October 21st - Florence
Monday, October 22nd - Siena
Tuesday, October 23rd - Florence
Wednesday, October 24th - Chianti
Thursday, October 25th - Florence
Friday, October 26th - San Gimnano/Volterra or Florence
Saturday, October 27th - Drive to Rome airport. Rome
Sunday, October 28th to Wednesday, October 31 - Rome
Thursday, Nov. 1 - Sunday, Nov. 4 - Venice. Leave Venice on Nov. 4.

-----------------------------------
Or alternative two:

Friday, October 19th - Flight to Pisa
Saturday, October 20th -Arrive Pisa at 11:00 a.m.; Florence
Sunday, October 21st to Tuesday, Oct. 23 - Florence
Wednesday, October 24th - Rent car;
Prato/Pistoia/Lucca/Pisa
Thursday, October 25th -San Gimnano/Volterra
Friday, October 26th -Chianti
Saturday, October 27th - Siena
Sunday, October 28th - Assisi/Orvieto
Monday, October 29th - Ravenna/Bologna
Tuesday, October 30th - Modena/Parma
Wednesday, October 31st to Nov. 4 - Drive to Venice, return car; Venice.

ira

Hi ak,

>we are in our mid-20s (though fast approaching late 20s),...

No faster than some of us are watching our 20s recede.

>1. Is it stupid to miss Rome on our first trip to Italy?

Nope. We've been to Venice about a dozen times, and have only once passed through Rome.

>2. If you had two weeks in Italy, would you spend the time hopping from city to city (i.e. Florence, Rome, Venice) or would you try to stay in the countryside in between?<

You can do either. 14 days is just right for R, F, V. It is also just right for a motor trip through Tuscany + any 2 of the above 3.

3. I would split the week rather than doing daytrips to Florence.

You could also stay in Florence and do daytrips to various towns around it.

You might find this thread helpful:

Helpful Information: Italy 2
http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34568596

Enjoy your visit.

LoveCalabria

Hi Akila - you should write me directly at [email protected] . I am an Italian Travel specialist - use to live in the area for four years and I currently help people organize itineraries like yours. I can point you in the right direction to organize a perfect trip.

akila

Thanks Ira - that link is very useful.

LoveCalabria, no offense --- but I don't use travel agents. I like planning my own itineraries --- it's one of my favorite parts of the trip!

panucci

Are you sure you want to have a car the entire trip. I have been to Italy many times and limit driving to Tuscany only. I would never drive in or near Rome. As for missing Rome....Most people love Rome, but some hate it. Personally it is my favorite city in the world so I don't think you should miss it. Also might be trying to see too much. You'll spend all of your time driving around.

ellenem

I agree with Ira--it is silly to daytrip three times into Florence from the countryside. You'll waste time coming and going and possibly add aggravation. Stay in Florence for a few nights before or after your countryside stay.

I'm not sure that either of your itineraries is "slow-paced." It takes time to drive to all the places you've listed. Do the one that appeals most to you. It's perfectly OK to skip Rome--sounds like that's your preference.

ngarona

I think that one day trip to Florence would be plenty. Wait until you see the mobs of people, long lines to get into the museums, zillions of motorscooters spewing fumes...
Think about some of the lovely small towns near Siena: Montalchino, Montepulciano, Castillina in Chianti, etc.

StuDudley

I'm one who thinks you should spend at least 3 days in Rome - it's one of my three favorite large cities in Europe (Paris, London, Rome). I also much prefer the Val d'Orcia countryside (around Pienza) to Chianti. Most of those beautiful countryside scenes in "Under the Tuscan Sun" were filmed in the Val d'Orcia region. Probably more cute little hilltop villages there than anyplace else we've visited in Italy.

We return to Italy most often because of the beautiful Tuscany countryside, Rome, and the most romantic place we've found in Europe - Venice. You'll be in Italy in off-season (if there is one), so the crowds should not get in your way in Venice or Florence.

Here is what I would do:
Sat 20 arrive & visit Pisa, stay in Florence (take a train there)
Sun 21 - Florence
Mon 22 - Florence
Tues 23 rent a car & drive to Volterra for a visit, then to San G. Stay in San G
Wed 24 visit San G more if necessary. Drive to Montalcino & visit, Sant Antimo Abbey, Pienza. Stay in Pienza
Thurs 25 Visit Pienza, Montepulciano, Monticchiello, and aimlessly walk or drive around in the Val d'Orcia.
Friday 26 day trip to Siena (1 hr drive). Return to Pienza to stay
Sat 27 Assisi, Todi, & Orvieto, stay in Orvieto - returning the car when you get there.
Sun 28 train to Rome
Mon 29 Rome
Tues 30 Rome
Wed 31 Rome
Thurs 1 train to Venice
Fri 2 Venice
Sat 3 Venice
Sun 4 home

If you want to stay in Siena, stay there after San G. I might also add 1 more day in the Tuscany countryside, but that would put you in Orvieto on Sunday - when many shops will be closed & the car rental office will be closed also - so you would have to return the car on Monday morning (but that won't cost you any more $$).

I have a 20 page itinerary for Italy that I've sent to hundreds of people on this travel board & aol. E-mail me at [email protected] if you want a copy. It includes some scenic drives in the val d'Orcia area.

Stu Dudley

akila

Thanks all! This is very helpful. panucci - sorry for the confusion. We don't want to have the car the entire time. If we go to Rome and Venice we would take the train there.
Stu - I like your itinerary. I came up with something somewhat similar except I didn't include Umbria and I shortened our stay in Tuscany. I will also email you to get your itinerary. I know that we will want to visit the Chianti region since October is grape/olive season.

Here are my thoughts:

Friday, October 19th - Flight from Atlanta to Pisa;
Saturday, October 20th - Arrive Pisa at 11:00 a.m.; train to Florence; Florence
Sunday, October 21st - Morning train to Florence; Florence
Monday, October 22nd - Florence
Tuesday, October 23rd - Pick up car; Pisa/Lucca
Wednesday, October 24th - Chianti
Thursday, October 25th - Siena
Friday, October 26th - San Gimagno and Volterra
Saturday, October 27th - Drop off car; Train to Rome
Sunday, October 28th - Rome
Monday, October 29th - Rome
Tuesday, October 30th - Rome
Wednesday, October 31st - Rome
Thursday, November 1st - Train to Venice
Friday, November 2nd - Venice
Saturday, November 3rd - Venice
Sunday, November 4th - Flight from Venice to Atlanta

Dayle

Hi Akila,

I really like your revised itinerary. The only tweak I would make (based on my own preferences and experiences in your listed destinations) is to skip Pisa/Lucca. Take that day from your Florence stay and use it to see southern Tuscany - the Montepulciano, Pienza and Montalcino area including Sant'Antimo Abbey.

You would probably only have time for 2 of the 3 above towns plus the Gregorian Chants at Sant'Antimo. This was one of the real highlights of my 3 trips to Italy.

Buon viaggio!

jabez

It's a tight schedule, but doable. I agree with dropping Lucca (although I love Lucca) and start heading south instead. Use that day in Chianti.

StuDudley

I don't think you are spending nearly enough time in the Tuscany countryside. Many, many people on this travel board (including myself) have mentioned that the Tuscany countryside is what brings them back to Italy.

I would skip Lucca/Pisa (like others have suggested) and subtract 1 day from Rome and add those days to the Tuscany countryside.

I also don't understand your comment about the grape/olive season in Chianti in late Oct. Grape harvest is in Sept and olive harvest is Nov. Also, my favorite Tuscany wines are in Montalcino & Montepulciano - not Chianti. The Pienza/Montepulciano region has lots of olive trees too - and some great olive oil - I have some in my pantry right now. I think it's a shame to go to Tuscany without visiting Pienza, Montepulciano, Montalcino, and the beautiful Val d'Orcia. Much prettier than Chianti, IMO.

Stu Dudley

MaureenB

Congrats on your great airfare deal. It sounds like a great trip. I think you're smart to include Rome, because I personally would choose three or four nights there minimum. Your most recent itinerary looks good. If you arrive in Venice at night, it is most magical to see for the first time.

I'm wondering if you're interested in seeing the Italian coastal areas, such as Liguria. We stayed three nights in Santa Margherita Ligure, which is a nice small port city from which you can day-trip by train to the Cinque Terre and by bus to Portofino and others. We loved seeing the beautiful coastline, even more than the Tuscan hills. Not sure what weather is in October, since we were there in early May.

You're well on your way to a good plan. Don't get confused by all the advice, because in the end it depends on your personal preferences. But, minimizing the number of times you change hotels can minimize the stress and lost time to travel.
>-

ira

Hi ak,

You will be in Italy during porcini mushroom season. Lucky you.

akila

This is really great. I love this board!

ira - We are so excited about mushroom season --- I saw that a lot of the truffle festivals are in October. Stu, I thought that we would be there around wine/olive oil but I guess it will be either just before or just after we are there.

Well, after reading more about this, it looks like Southern Tuscany is really beautiful and we should not miss it (and we love the countryside). Maureen, I thought about the Cinque Terre but I think that in October it is supposed to be pretty chilly which is why I opted for Tuscan regions instead. There are so many amazing things and places to see in Italy that I feel that we have to just get a good sampling and come back to really drink it all in.

I also changed the Pisa portion of the itinerary. Since we land on Saturday and will most likely be jet lagged/tired that day, I thought that stopping in Pisa, seeing the Leaning Tower, and just walking around the city may be a good first day before moving on to the business of Florence. Plus, this way, we will get three full days in Florence (instead of 2 1/2 days). So, here is a somewhat revised itinerary:

Friday, October 19th - Flight from Atlanta to Pisa;
Saturday, October 20th - Arrive Pisa at 11:00 a.m.; see Pisa; stay in Pisa
Sunday, October 21st - Morning train to Florence; Florence
Monday, October 22nd - Florence
Tuesday, October 23rd - Florence
Wednesday, October 24th - Pick up car; Chianti
Thursday, October 25th - Siena
Friday, October 26th - San Gimagno and Volterra
Saturday, October 27th - Southern Tuscany (Montalcino/Montepulciano/Pienza)
Sunday, October 28th - Drive to Rome airport or train to Rome; Rome
Monday, October 29th - Rome
Tuesday, October 30th - Rome
Wednesday, October 31st - Rome
Thursday, November 1st - Train to Venice
Friday, November 2nd - Venice
Saturday, November 3rd - Venice
Sunday, November 4th - Flight from Venice to Atlanta

SusanP

I'm another Rome lover, so I would agree to definitely not miss it! I like your last itinerary very much. Sounds like a great trip.

StuDudley

Drop the car in Chiusi or Orvieto & take the train to Rome - this is really a no-brainer. HOWEVER, check with AutoEurope or whoever you rent a car from to make sure you can return the car on a Sunday. The offices will be closed, but they might allow you to drop off the car & leave the keys in a drop box. We did this once in San Remo. Also, spend most of that day in the Pienza/Val d'Orcia - you won't want to leave once you've got a glimp of that beautiful region of Tuscany. We took our closest friends there several years ago. While there, they wanted to stay for an extended period the following year so they looked at a many properties in Chianti. After 3 days in the Val d'Orcia, they loved it so much that they niked Chianti booked a place for an entire month near Pienz. While there the next year, they purchased a 3 bedroom apt in San Quirico in the Val d'Orcia (lucky us).

Have you e-mailed me for my Italy itinerary? I've sent it to over 800 people so far (no kidding), and it features several scenic drives in the Val d'Orcia and also how to avoid crowds in Venice.

Stu Dudley

jabez

Stu's drive is a classic.Make sure and get it.
I tend to think that you are doing to much "traveling" for 16 nights.
Rome is my favorite city in the world,but I'd skip it on this trip. Add more time into Tuscany and another day in Venice.

ChrissyJ

Put my vote in the column for Rome - if you feel pressed for time, I'd consider downplaying or even skipping Florence, actually. It felt more touristy and was more crowded and tiring than any other place we visited. The Vatican and Ostia Antica (just outside of Rome) were highlights for us, and I really loved Pisa as well.

We loved the hill towns in Umbria probably even more than Tuscany (Orvieto, Todi, and a few other small ones whose names I can't remember off the top of my head.) Again, less busy and touristy but just as much atmosphere and beauty.

Since you are foodies, you should try to arrange a stop in Modena, to tour a balsamic vinegar-producing farm. There are places you can learn about and taste Parmigianno-Reggiano and Parma ham as well.

akila

Well, I'm still thinking about the itinerary and did more research and found a problem in my perfect plan.
Problem: Car rental place is closed in Chiusi (and most other small towns) at 1:00 on Saturday and all day Sunday so we can't take the train from Chiusi to Rome and I don't want to drive to Rome airport.

So, now I am rethinking the Tuscany portion of the trip. Instead of trying to see Chianti, San Gim, Southern Tuscany, and Siena, I think it will be more relaxing and fun to just stay in either Chianti or Val D'Orcia for three nights and head to Siena on the last day. Then we can drop our car off in Siena on Saturday morning, visit Siena during the day, and take the train on Sunday morning from Siena to Rome (3 hours).

Here is what I am looking for: somewhere with beautiful scenic drives, good wineries where we can taste wine, good food, small towns, not too many tourists, and a beautiful villa for our stay. I think that Chianti and Val d'Orcia fit these requirements so which one would you pick? I am right now leaning toward Chianti because: (1) it is closer to Florence so less driving on the first day, (2) if we were feeling really inspired one day, we could head to San Gim, and (3) Villa Vignamaggio looks SO amazing and I haven't seen any similar/comparable places in Southern Tuscany.