StantonHyde

I am going to make plane reservations for our belated 10th anniversary trip to Spain. I have always wanted to visit Southern Spain. So here is a rough itinerary. Please comment. We are limited on days due to small children at home. We are busy, but not frenetic travelers, so I am not sure if a day trip to Granada would work. I am also wondering if we should take a train from Seville to Granada (I know we can, but is driving more convenient--especially if we continue on to another city).

Day 1-2: Fly to Madrid on Friday-Saturday
Day 2: Saturday: Either train or plane from Madrid to Seville (I know there is a high speed train, but in France we flew for much cheaper than the train--and quicker too)
Day 3-4: Sunday and Monday: Explore Seville (are the days of the week a problem--too many things closed?)
Day 5: Tuesday: Day trip to Cordoba
Day 6: Wednesday: Day trip to Granada (or should we stay overnight there?)
Day 7 & 8: Thursda and Friday: I am looking at a few possibilities:
a. either 2nd day in Granada and then drive elsewhere in the afternoon?
b. or a day trip from Seville to: Ronda or Jerez?? Is Ronda too far for a day trip?
c. Or dirve from Granada to Baeza and Ubeda and then back to Seville to return the car?? (unless we can/should do the train for that loop?)
Day 9 & 10: Saturday and Sunday: Fly home

I will think about hotels and activities in another month or so. Now I just want to get the cities/towns set and go from there. Thanks for all of your ideas/advice!

joannyc

<<Day 9 & 10: Saturday and Sunday: Fly home>>

Why will it take you both days to fly home (Utah)? Do you have an overnight layover somewhere?

StantonHyde

No but I checked the flights and if we leave here at around noonish on Saturday, we get into Madrid at 9:40 am Sunday. Its a 14-16 hour flight with a layover in Atlanta or JFK. We could take a direct flight from Salt Lake to Paris and then from there to Madrid, but I am not sure that helps a lot. Besides, we will bringing wine back and I am not about to go through customs in Utah with my Spanish wine.

One more thought--What about going up to Madrid on Friday morning and seeing some sights, then stay by a hotel close to the airport (or within 20 mins of the airport--not sure how far away center city Madrid is from the airport) and then no worries about making the plane Saturday morning. We tend to prefer smaller cities/towns when we travel to Europe, but a day in Madrid can't be all bad ;-)

joannyc

OK, I'm a bit confused....

If you leave the U.S. on Saturday, you will indeed arrive in Madrid on Sunday (no matter where you connect through).

On your return, I would not be concerned about getting wine through customs. You are allowed two bottles each and typically they don't care how many bottles you bring home.

If you leave Madrid on Saturday morning, you will arrive in the U.S. on Saturday... not Sunday. Since you will be connecting on your return trip, you still have the flight from Atlanta or JFK to Utah but still will arrive on Saturday, correct?

So, that leaves you with an additional day to enjoy Spain... if you'd prefer to stay for one more day and arrive back in Utah on Sunday.

WomBatt

'Day 2: Saturday: Either train or plane from Madrid to Seville (I know there is a high speed train, but in France we flew for much cheaper than the train--and quicker too)' -
I suggest you investigate further. The train is not greater than 2hours 45minutes and discounts of 60% can be available for on-line booking.
'Day 5: Tuesday: Day trip to Cordoba' -
Yes, easy by train from Seville.
'Day 6: Wednesday: Day trip to Granada (or should we stay overnight there?)' -
The journey between Seville and Granada is 3hours each way whatever your transport (a long day trip!).
'Day 7 & 8 c.' The train station for Ubeda and Baeza is Linares 20kms. away and the train times are unlikely to suit.

For your reference - http://www.renfe.es/
Easy/short guide to use of site and train discounts - http://tiny.cc/r6mb7

Best wishes.

lmhornet

1. The train is far better than flying. Beside saving a lot of time time and avoiding air port security aggravation, you leave Madrid and can get off the train in Cordoba, do your sight seeing and then get back on later in the day to go to Seville. No need to double back.

2. A daytrip to Seville is too long.

3. Be warned that driving in Sevilla and and just about anywhere off the main freeway is hopelessly confusing and much aggravation.

4. Don't miss Ronda.

5. Don't Miss Nerja.

The best bet is to do a loop. Train to Cordoba. Get of and look around. Get back on and go to Seville.

After getting your fill of Sevilla, Get car and drive to Jerez for the horse show (the show is on Thursdays but you can watch training on the other days) then to Ronda. Stay there at the Hotel San Garbriel, one of the best little jewels of a hotel anywhere.

Drive down to the coast and across to Nerja. Stay there on the Balcon de Europa.

Drive up to to Granada and stay there.

Drive back to Sevilla or to Cordoba and drop the car before training back to Seville.

Fill in with towns like Baeza as desired.

Stay at paradors if you can. They are more than just hotels - the good ones are an experience. Carmona parador near Sevilla very nice. I would get off the train in Cordoba, later rent a car and stay drive to the Carmona parador to spend the night. The one in Ronda is modern but good too, although Hotel San Gabriel is the best bet. The parador in Jaen is also especially good. It's like staying in a castle - with all the modern comforts.

WomBatt

Imhornet is surely not serious? '2. A daytrip to Seville is too long.'

illnative

I'm guessing Imhornet meant it is too long of a day?

yorkshire

Most people recommend three full days in Sevilla. After all, the day you arrive you will be tired and likely not arrive until late afternoon. The Cordoba visit is easy whether you do it en route from Madrid or as a day trip.
Jerez is also an easy day trip from Sevilla via train or bus.
Only you can decide which places you want to see most. I think you should pick three places total, not counting Madrid or day trips. So, perhaps:
1 arrive Madrid, travel to Sevilla
2 Sevilla (day trip to Cordoba at some point, Jerez if you wish)
3 Sevilla
4 Sevilla
5 bus to Ronda
6 Ronda
7 train to Granada
8 Granada
9 to Madrid
10 depart from Madrid
I don't know Ubeda and Baeza, just hear that they are nice, but there is SO much to see in the places above.

I consider a car a real liability in a trip to Andalucia that involves city to city travel. The buses are just as comfortable and convenient as the trains. If you rent a car in order to stop in small towns and see countryside, get it as you leave town (from the airport) and drop it off when you arrive in the next city.

Alternatively, if you are far more energetic than I am (I like to sleep late and explore at a very leisurely pace), then you could rent a car when you depart Sevilla, drive to Ronda (see the many posts here on Pueblos Blancos for planning a route), and keep the car for exploring the countryside around Ronda (driving to Granada optional).
Or, if Ubeda and Baeza are more to you liking, just use a map to alter your route accordingly--keeping it circular.

zootsi

Seville is a wonderful city. A day trip to Grenada is really s stretch from Seville. Grenada is worth an overnight. You might also try for an overnight in Ronda or another one of the stunning white villages that dot the mountains - a very beautiful area.

CathyM

I like what yorkshire has outlined: basically 4 nights in Sevilla w/a daytrip to Cordoba (I'd definately visit Cordoba over Jerez), 2 nights Ronda, 2 nights Granada and the final night in Madrid.

Agree you don't need a car but if you can find a decent price a 2 day rental for the drive from Sevilla to Ronda would be nice. You could explore the surrounding countryside but drop off your car as soon as you arrive in Granada.

I wouldn't attempt a daytrip from Sevilla to Granada - at 3 hours each way that's 6 hours travel time not factoring in the time required to get to the train/bus stations. Same with Ronda as a daytrip from Sevilla.

An alternative to Ronda for 2 nigths would be to add a night to Sevilla and visit Arcos by bus. With the other night you could add time in Madrid for a potential daytrip to Toledo or Segovia. It's not Andalucia but these are beautiful cities. Or just stay in Sevilla and do another daytrip (Jerez, Sanlucar, Osuna, Carmona, Ecija, Cadiz, etc...).

Ubeda/Baeza are wonderful but they are nearly 3 hours from Granada so it wouldn't really work as a daytrip.

kja

> Day trip to Granada (or should we stay overnight there?)

As others hae said, it's really too far to be a good day trip. Moreover, some of us found seeing the Alhambra at night to be magical, and you wouldn't be able to do that as a day trip. (BTW, visiting it at night does not substitute for seeing it during the day - do both!)

StantonHyde

ahhh the wisdom of this wonderful board. Thank you very much.

NanBug

Yorkshire's suggested itinerary is almost identical to ours from last winter. I'd get out of Madrid after arriving immediately and on to your next destination. Saves time. Here's our trip:

Landed in Madrid> immediate train to Toledo, 1 night
Train to Seville, 4 nights
Bus to Ronda, 2 nights
Train to Granada, 2 nights
Train to Cordoba, 2 nights
Train to Madrid, 2 nights
Fly home

We spent 1 day on a bus trip to the white villages with Paul McGrath (out of Seville and back). We loved Ronda and enjoyed 2 nights there. Same with Cordoba -- Glad we didn't do it as a daytrip, too much to see.

Egbert

Yes I also like Yorkshires ideas. I would personally spend 4 or 5 nights in Seville and cut out Ronda but I'm biased. If you want to experience a more sleepy smaller town in Andalucia then Ronda is beautiful. Granada is not a good daytrip from Seville and deserves one or two nights. I also like Malaga for a night and it's easy to get the high speed train back to Madrid.

StantonHyde

I agree with you all--Yorkshire's idea looks good and I really like the "spin off" ideas too. My husband is wondering why no driving--I keep saying that everyone on Fodors says it is awful and confusing. He wants to know if it is worse than Tuscany. Sounds like it to me!!

joannyc

No, driving in Spain is not awful! I drove all through Andalucia even into the cities to my hotels. Once within a city, I left the car at the hotel and hoofed it.

NanBug

It's not that the driving is awful, it's not. It's just that, for your itinerary, it would be much less hassle to just hop a train or bus.

With a car, you'll have to navigate through historic city and town streets, which are often one way, find parking, pay for parking...then let the car sit there (accumulating parking fees) while you roam around. Not worth it to me, that's why we used public transportation. We loved the high speed trains -- very comfy and luxurious and stress free.

yorkshire

I completely agree with NanBug about driving--it is just not necessary and it is time consuming and adds stress. Plus you'll have to expend energy (and money!) finding hotels with parking. It is preferable (to me anyway) to find a quaint hotel in the historic center and forget about a car.
For your next trip, explore the wonderful rural countryside of Andalucia with a car--but for a city highlights first trip, enjoy the view from a train/bus.

josele

If you are staying only in Seville, Granada or Ronda, you will not need the car. You may need it only if you plan to tour the white towns or if you want to make stops along the way, to visit the occasional town. It does not seem like this is what you plan to do this time.