But since I'm in a mood to ramble on, Ozarks, some of your comments reminded me of something I noticed when I lived in Amsterdam for this past year. American's reactions to various things there varied widely by what part of the US they are from. I knew American expats there from places like Minnesota and Nebraska, say, that found things in Amsterdam to be very "different than things at home". But expats from New York, San Francisco, etc. ... not so much. In fact Amsterdam reminds me very much of SF. If you substitute hills for canals. And add sunshine. ;-> I mean the two cities remind me of each other in terms of social ambience, tolerance, and diversity - you know, the general vibe.

Well in Amsterdam the mental cases are in the coffeeshops!

Here's another gem. There are still coffee shops over there serving beer. Between Red Light and Dam square. Just ask the locals where to go. This is a total F U to the Government in typical Dutch fashion! I love the Dutch. Appears that the Coffee shop owners would rather pay a nominal fine than lose the profit made from a night of beer sales. And from what I was told, they rarely get checked-up on in the less touristy areas...

the Bulldog Palace would be a huge enterprise coffeeshop that makes most of its money on booze i would think - but i guess the difference is that their 'pot shop' is down in the cellar, separated from the fancy emporium above? Anyway the Bulldog Palace, dominating the Leidesplein is now an Amsterdamned icon, known all over the world from legions of American college-aged kids having partied there and reporting back home. And it is part of the Bulldog empire that runs several authentic coffeeshops, including the original Bulldog on O Z Voorburgwal dead center in the RLD - along with Mellow Yellow and Rusland the first places in Amsterdam it seems to also openly sell cannabis - way before the laws allowed it legally. Indeed i do remember the old fat British bulldog that once hung out at the original Bulldog.

Bulldog you say? As a graduate of Drake Univ. and also Yale I am twice over a bulldog...bow wow wow.

Note to NorCal...yes where you live does determine your views about various things...but also and maybe more so your religious and political views. I was born in Chicago oft visited, son and his partner live in Boston (were two years in SF), daughter married to Quebecois and in Florida, and we are well traveled so don't reflect typical Ozarkian views.

In an earlier Fodor's Forum I had a discussion about social services after a trip to Scandinavia. Americans are it seems often generous but also narrow minded about caring for less fortunate. Egalitarian is a word that is European.

Oh yes, should mention we are just back from two weeks in Louisiana including NOLA. Walking down Bourbon St. you do indeed see nearly naked ladies posing in club entrances. I am married and also old and I have no idea about services offered. Maybe just jazz! Reminded one a bit of Amsterdam?

Ozarksbill

<i>Walking down Bourbon St. you do indeed see nearly naked ladies posing in club entrances. I am married and also old and I have no idea about services offered. Maybe just jazz! </i>

That was hilarious. Even though you are "old," Ozarksbill, you have a spry sense of humor.

I'm really enjoying this thread--thanks to all the participants.

And before Cannabis was demonized in the 1930s practically single handedly by a fed gov't official with the jingoistic help of William Randolph Hurst - who allegedly named it 'marijuana' Mexican for mary jane to further taint it - but in N'Orlens there may not have been outright coffeeshops but i understand a whole lot of jazz clubs, etc where cannabis smoking was rampant and tolerated - indeed cannabis was also i guess the fashion in 'high' society in DC amongst dignitaries during the late 1800s - so N'Orlens was a bit like Amsterdam in the past and apparently a bit now too.

but to continue the thought above associating cannabis or marijuana with blacks in seedy clubs or Mexicans helped make it a dangerous thing in folks' minds the movie Reefer Madness quite well documents this demonizing of the awful drug that would make folks mad.

NorCalif, the mentally ill tend to get caught in the social safety net too. Not always, but usually. Those who fall out side of the net are the illegals, but they don't tend to hang around the centre of Amsterdam - in case they get picked up.

Several towns along the border with Belgium have closed their coffee shops. Because of the huge numbers of drugs tourists from Belgium and France descending on small towns every weekend, and basically trashing them.
Several coffeeshops in Amsterdam must close because they are too close to schools.
There is talk of introducing membership or passes to access the coffeeshops to cut down on the drugs tourists. I can't see it happening.
Smoking is allowed in cafes/coffeeshops/bars/pubs which are owned and operated by one person, i.e. they do not employ staff. Otherwise smoking is permitted in a smoking room.
Small baggies are allowed to be taken off premises, but only one per person, with a very small amount in it.
With the current Christian coalition in power coffeehouses are increasingly under threat. Luckily the third member of the coalition is the PvdA (Labour Party) who balance the other two out for now. How long this coalition will last is anybody's guess. Next time we could get madman Wilders in it and then we're all heading for hell in a hand basket :(

hetismij - thanks for your answer re: the mentally ill in the Netherlands and the social safety net. But evidently here in the US some of the mentally ill people living on the streets sometimes refuse the social safety net that we do have, for various reasons; they may be incapable of, or unwilling to, comply with rules in a homeless shelter, or they may be paranoid and refuse to accept help, etc.

I'm not really knowledgeable about the issue, but my understanding is that if a family member, or sometimes the judicial system, finds that a person is a threat to themselves or others, they can be treated against their will. But otherwise they are "free" to exercise whatever judgment, or lack of same, they have. Hence the people you see here who live on the streets, talking to imaginary companions, and exhibiting various other breaks with reality. As long as they aren't violent and are managing to survive somehow, I believe they are left alone if they want to be. I never really saw people like that in Amsterdam, so was curious if they can be forced to use the social safety net and compelled to get treatment or live in public housing or what.

They aren't compelled to do anything. Some don't get treatment, but the majority do. They often live in special hostels where they get guidance and help, but no, there is no compulsion. Here too provided they are not a threat to themselves or society they are pretty much left alone if that is what they want.
There is a well known Salvation Army hostel on the Warmoesstraat, plus a convent which helps such people, also on the Warmoesstraat. A friend of my sons worked with the nuns for a year during her training for social work.

It's true that you see far more of these sad characters on the streets of American cities. I assumed they were unable to afford treatment and so were pretty much left to their own devices.
I'm glad to hear there is a safety net for them even if they choose not to make use of it.

One point to remember also is that the centre of Amsterdam is very expensive, the social housing is all further out, so people would have to travel into the city centre. When my son lived in Amsterdam he lived in a very "colourful" area (off the Wibautstraat), and there were a few mentally deranged people around him. They never made their way into the centre though.
There are homeless in Amsterdam as there are everywhere, but they keep a low profile on the whole, unless they are selling the Street News of course, or are squatting in some building. Though squatters are making more of a political statement, than doing it out of need usually here.

Hey hetismij - thanks again for the explanation! While we do have a safety net here in the US, I think it has a lot of holes in it and people do fall through much more often than they should, in my view.

We lived in the Watergrafsmeer part of Amsterdam near the Ringdijk - not too far from the Amstel River and Amstel Station. DH worked abut 5 miles south of there at the Academic Medical Center. To get to his work, we used to ride our bikes through Amsterdam Zuidoost and Bullewijk and some of the public housing areas in that direction. All I can say is that it seemed, to me as an outsider, admittedly not that knowledgeable about the details of the situation, to be much better than similar areas in US cities.

Thanks again for your patience with my pressing you into service as a one-woman guide to all things Dutch!

We sure are having a beautiful warm sunny fall here in SF. DH still has the Amsterdam weather radar icon on his computer desktop (he used to use it to time his bike rides to work to be in between rain squalls) and he says Amsterdam has been having a very rainy fall. I know you live some ways from Amsterdam but probably having the same weather? Anyway, yet another reason you need to come visit. Although when a Dutch friend of ours came to visit a few weeks ago, he hit the weekend of the first rain here since May! So maybe I should be careful about letting you Netherlands-dwellers bring your weather with you. ;->

Take care.

Palenque,
Great thread - especially for those of us who have never been to AMs and will be going in 2010 - several nights on each side of a major hike to East Africa.

Are you familiar with, or perhaps someone reading this with the Hotel Estherea on Singel Canal (may have mispelled one or the other -or both) I have found a good price of $257 for a double room canal view, in light of some of the prices I've seen way over 300-600 a night.

If anyone has stayed there I'd love a recommendation on a room preference - a number maybe that I could request. We are both very tall and I try to find something that I don't have to duck walk through! I realize in Europe the rooms are small but we've been lucky in our travels to find out from folks which rooms may be suitable for height issues (though we are taller than fatter, haha)& enough room for some comfort. We won't have anything more than two duffle bags and one small backpack for me and camera bag for dh.
Thanks for any info. And all the great Amsterdam tips!

FP

flower - we had friends from Paris who used to come visit us in Amsterdam every few months and they always used Priceline to find really great prices on hotels (we didn't have room to put them up ourselves in our university-supplied housing for visiting faculty).

Don't know if you're familiar with Priceline bidding? If you are very attached to getting an exact hotel it wouldn't work for you, but our friends just wanted a general area of Amsterdam. If the exact hotel isn't that important to you, I'd give it a try - the prices were incredible.

Our friends were always able to get more-or-less last-minute reservations at what Priceline calls a 4-star hotel this past summer (so heavy tourist season) in the City Center/Museum District for around $70 (US) a night - for a double! I was amazed. We saw a couple of the hotels they stayed at and the hotels and the locations were just fine. One that I remember was the NH Amsterdam Centre hotel on Stadhouderskade right near Leidseplein. You can't of course guarantee which hotel you would get, but it gives you an idea of the type that they consider 4-star - look up the reviews on TripAdvisor to get a feel for it.

P.S. I'm not all that familiar with Priceline myself and never used it in Amsterdam, so I'm not guaranteeing you could get the same results. Maybe the fact that their reservations were always sort of last-minute actually helped them get a good price. I don't know. But compared to the "list" prices for hotels, I found the prices they got pretty incredible, and, as I said, they were always satisfied with the hotels they got - although nothing fancy or special.

Well, I wouldn't chance a last-minute reservation in Amsterdam if it's summer or early fall. The reason last minute rooms are cheap is obvious: they're trying to fill them at the last minute when all the wholesalers dump their blocks of unsold rooms, or boutique hotels haven't sold out.
Usually the hotel Web sites themselves have the best prices. We booked the Estherea in August for, I beleive, $147 a night, incl. taxes. But it's not a canal view room. We may upgrade when we get there, if possible.
And a correction on Nevada prostitution: it's only legal in some counties, mostly the rural ones, and only in regulated brothels. It is illegal in Vegas.
Los Angeles is currently in the middle of a big brouhaha over pot stores, which have proliferated (many of them illegally) like weeds lately. You are supposed to need a doctor's "recommendation" (whatever that means), but it's easy to get.

NORCalif; thanks for the priceline rec. I have been over on TA and read many great posts on how to go about bidding, and the results..I do not know if mid-Sept is "high season" so I may give it a whirl. There are so many hotels and now we are staying just one night before and after, so perhaps that is the wayto go.

LALes- I tried the website but it was over $250 - did you use the Hotel website,or a discounter ?
and
.. Have a great time on your own adventure!

thanks for the help,
FP

FP: Mid Sept would surely be high season. I used the Estherea Web site, yes. It may be the day of the week you're trying for, or they may have high demand then, or maybe canal view rooms are that much pricier, or a convention's in town, who knows? I would highly doubt that Priceline does boutique hotels there, but I could be wrong. I tried several discounters with no luck. Keep in mind that many boutique hotels have steep stairs and no elevators, if that's an issue. For one night, I would just get a well-placed hotel that's quiet. Some of the chains (NH, Edon, or the American ones, which are pricier) might be the best bet even if they're not always the most charming.
Thanks for the best wishes, and you havde a great time in AFrica too.

Re: Hotels - i am certainly not well informed on indvidual hotels but can comment more on the locations. so thanks for the inputs from folks who do know about individual hotels - i seem to always stay in a different and frankly low-budget hotel that probably would not be up to standards of many - but in Amsterdam i am rarely in my room... and one word of warnign however with budget hotels in old buildings where there may be no lift and then you often have incredibly steep twisting staircases to navigate with your luggage - talking about real budget places with no baggage carriers, etc. So if a hotel does not have a lift as nearly every nice hotel has then expect a steep spiraling staircase as these hotels are often in premises so narrow there is no room for a life nor proper staircases i suspect.

flowerpower, the evolution of your safari reminds of a thread from a few years ago on the Africa board. You should do a search for "Pop! Goes the budget."

You might as well go big in AMS too. :)

Leely, a Cheapie

A FINAL NOTE ABOUT THE REDLIGHT DISTRICT - Though the RLD the tourists see is unusual to say the least for a really intimate part of the RLD head down O Z Voorburgwal to the Bulldog Coffeeshop - the original Bulldog down near the old church - and then walk down the really really tiny alley just to the south of the Bulldog - this leads you into an indoor area where girls are packed into rooms about the size of phone booths - and this part of the RLD is not for everyone as you literally must brush against the girls to get thru the narrow passages - the area is really packed at night.

Anyway enough of the RLD and back to planning your Amsterdam time.

Ah leaving for Paris tomorrow and then spending a week in Haarlem, as a base for lots of Amsterdamned exploring - will re-check old info and start a new Amsterdam thread.

tot ziens

Palenque, thanks for starting this thread, I look forward to whatever else you can share with us. I'm heading to Brussels, Bruges and a possible quick incursion into Amsterdam the end of January and definately fit the clueless description for these destinations.
Fodorites remain my best source of information, thank you to all and I welcome any ideas that you may have.

bookmarking

Leely, LOL; it does seem the budget can go POP once options start appearing! That is why I promised my DH to take it easy in AMS. I got a deal for Amrath (mystery hotel, 5*) booked it, had it taken away (!), got pissed, wrote the GM of the Hotel and he reinstated it! Whew, I thought we may be sleeping in the train station.
I really got a deal in EA; and when I go and see if it was worth dealing for, I will write a TR over on Africa forum for all to hopefully enjoy!

I love finding a new forum to get another addiction going. Click, sip, read. love it.
FP

anyone by the name of flowerpower will have a great great time in Amsterdam!

Well New Year's Eve was BOMBASTIC to say the least. Since the last train from Amsterdam to Haarlem did indeed depart at 19:57 as Hetismij had reported I experienced New Year's Eve in Haarlem - from the window of my canal-side B&B

Actually my first hint that NYE in Haarlem would be bombastic came as i got off the train at Haarlem's stately old train station (really really gorgeous old grandiose station) at 3pm, from Paris, i heard loud bombs going off everywhere - had to be M-80s or some serious explosive device (illegal to possess i was told be still lots going off)- big booms that shook the city.
And this intensified as the evening grew - when i returned from Amsterdam about 7:30 (did take the train there for a few hours) the Baghdad atmosphere was intensifying - really thought it could have been the Shock and Awe of the first Gulf War.
And thru the night it was a rat-a-tat-tat of fireworks all over the city - a symphony of loud pops mixed with colorful rocketed fireworks coming it seemed from everywhere - the top of nearby flats i saw rocket launches- and i thought it must be midnight

By no it was just before midnightand at midnight the explosions and fireworks seemed to quadruple to an unfathomable crescendo - they were coming from literally everywhere- the smell of smoke permeated the air.

And no the conflaguration - the BOMB-astic sounds lessenednot a bit for at least an hourand then sporadically thru the night and even isolated salvos the next day.

Anyway - regardless of what the word Bombastic means, Haarlem's NYE was bombastic to say the least.

Tot Ziens

And the B&B- 32 euros a night was a really neat place - clean - great owner - unlimited breakfast that whetted my appetite for the whole day- i really recommend the place to anyway seeking something really Dutch - fellow residents at the breakfast table were all Dutch- i guess they say the B&B gig is booming in Holland.

The big bangs were probably carbide being fired. Totally legal and very loud. In the North it is traditional to drop the carbide into an old milk churn and blast it.
Glad you enjoyed it :)

carbide shooting:
http://tinyurl.com/yd9xvs8

http://tinyurl.com/ydpxtvn

I hope I haven't already asked this, but could you all please give me some basic dutch words (and pronunciations)? How does a good tourist say hello, goodbye, please and thank you? Others?

Merci!
Melissa

unlimited breakfast that whetted my appetite for the whole day->>

sorry, pal - i think your appetite was sated, not whetted.

unless it was a very small breakfast of course.

Melissa:

Goede morgen - good morning. The g is pronounced gutterally - so a bit like ch in loch. If you can't manage that then just use the hard g sound, never the soft g sound (good never general).

Goede middag - good afternoon.
Goeden dag - good day

Goede often sounds more like goo-ye.

Dag- long a (like barn) same g sound - bye, but also hello, casual.
Hoi is a casual greeting, hallo is also perfectly acceptable.

alstublieft - please (formal, to an older person or stranger)
alsjeblieft - please to younger person or someone you know well, but fine with most waitstaff too.

dank (short a like tank) u or dank je wel - thankyou. U is pronounce oo(sort of). Merci is also used on occasion (dates from when the French occupied the Netherlands).

Een kopje koffie graag - a cup of coffee please, the j sounds like a y.
Tea is thee pronounced tay. Always served black.
Iced tea is icetea.
OJ is jus d'orange or sinaasappelsap, or just sap.

Een pilsje of een bier - a beer.


Anything else? Really nearly everyone speaks English in Amsterdam - indeed many of them are British or American!

Thank you! That should get me through the niceties.

That word "alstublieft." Is it pronounced something like all-stu-bleeft?

Short a in als like the name Al. The s is an s sound not a z sound.

Dutch vowels tend to be short if only one and long if doubled - so als - Als, but aal is long.
Dag (see above) is long because it is slang, in fact it almost has two syllables to it. In the full greeting dag is a short a.

one coffeeshop i would recommend is the Katsu.
It is in the Albert Cuyp Market.

the staff is so friendly and their lattes are awesome.
Not to mention their smoke :)

hetismij- don't the Dutch also just say 'bleeft' as a truncated form of alstublieft? Seems i heard it?

but "pils please" is the one i use the most

hi hetismij - I'm confused about one part of your pronunciation guides. You seem to use the phrase pertaining to "long" vowels in a way I"m not familiar with.

I'm used to "long", when referring to a vowel, to mean the vowel sounds like we in the US would say the vowel in the alphabet. For instance, a "long E" would be in words like sheep, needle, queen, etc. A "long I" would be in words such as five, ice, island. A "long A" is in words like acorn, cake, table, etc. But for example, above you say "long A like barn" - which is not what I've ever seen called a long A.

I know you're of British origin - is there a difference in how the British vs. Americans use the term "long" when referring to vowels? Just curious. Always enjoy your posts, your patience, and your helpfulness!

Yes Hetismij is IME the exemplar of cordality and genuine helpfulness.

Anyway regarding the nonsense of having no-smoking in Coffeeshops (where cannabis is legally sold and smoked) - i had the idea that there was a separated section where tokers could toke that would be sectioned off from where the workers had to work- and the workers would not have to ever enter the smoking section - which also allowed tobacco smoke since many Dutch make spliffs with tobacco and pot or hash

But only in one coffeeshop i peeked into was that even vaguely the case - most were just like always even though there may be some 'Smoking Section' posted - some coffeeshops were even advertising that 'tobacco smoke permitted inside' i guess to snag the tobacco addict who wanted a cafe type place to puff away in

And in many the cashiers themselves were even puffing away on spliffs while selling the cannabis.

Funny you nearly never see pipes used in Coffeeshops though some have communal bongs to use.

Anyway the coffeeshops operate pretty much like always IME

NorCalif, sorry for the delay, I am busy planning my next getaway at the moment.
You are right of course. I was thinking in terms of Dutch A sounds, not English when I referred to a long A. The English long A sound as in cake is actually the long E sound in Dutch. The long e sound - sheep is ie in Dutch. I was getting my long vowels a bit confused. :-]

Pal if the coffeshops you peeked into (really? only peeked?? are you getting old or something :) ) were owner operated, ie employed no staff then smoking is allowed in them, the same as it is in small cafés. But tbh I can't see the authorities checking on coffeeshops too much. There are enough pubs. cafés and restaurants breaking the law to keep them occupied for a long time to come.

hetismij - i do peek into coffeeshops just to see what various ones are like and to inspect the menu boards, etc. And in the largest most successful ones, with an obviously hired staff, even the staff at the counter were smoking - so i think you are right-enforcement in those places is not a priority - surprising actually to me.

Cheers- see the weather is getting warmer, finally!

DEATH OF MAGIC MUSHROOMS GREATLY EXAGGERATED

From what i had read that the Energy Shops that dot the Red-Light District and tourist areas were of last year prohibited from selling psychedelic mushrooms, as they had for years.

So i was shocked at, encountering the first Energy Shop (which also sells Energy Drinks like the ever-popular Red Bull, whose crushed cans litter Amsterdam everywhere it seems) that they were advertising Magic Mushrooms for sale.

Peeking in i noted a refrigerated area with plastic boxes of wet psylocibin mushrooms and a sales clerk giving some BS to some young French drug tourists about the various effects of the different varieties being sold.

I did note in this and other Energy Shops that there were only wet mushrooms being sold and not the mind-boggling varieites of dried shrooms from all over the world (suppsoedly) - enquiries said that the more potent dried shrooms were banned but the less mind-boggling wet shrooms can still be sold.

And on New Years Eve there did seem to be quite a fewshroom kits being sold.

And i did note in the fantastic Amsterdam Historical Museum they had an exhibit on Coffeeshops and Energy Shops and the text said "mildly psychedelic mushrooms are sold".

I have never partook in Amsterdam shrooms so cannot content on their effect.

RIJKSMUSEUM, VAN GOGH AND STEDELIJK MODERN ART MUSEUMS UPDATES

Museumplein is ordinarily venue to a grouping of three world-class art museums but each of them has in the past few years undergone thorough renovations.

I visited the Van Gogh and Rijsmuseum in December - the Van Gogh has been re-opened in its new version for a few years now but the Rijksmuseum is still limited to what it bills Old Masters (or some such wording) where the highlights of the collection are on view in a small part of the museum building - so you have the Night Watchmen, etc. on view but not the bulk of the collection.

And by the looks of it Rijksmuseum renovations will continue for some time - much of the building, from the outside, still resembles a construction zone.

the Stedelijk Modern Art Museum, always known for cutting edge contemporary art, is currently closed but supposed to re-open this spring, signs say. for a few years it was in temporary quarters in the old Post Office tower overlooking Amsterdam's harbor - but this building is currently being demolished so until the old building on Museumplein re-opens there seems to be no Modern Art museum, unless i missed something.

And for those Museum Passes - a pass is slightly cheaper than paying admission to all three of these superb museums and you can visit then all the zillions of other museums in Amsterdam as well.