MClasberg

Hi All,

My fiancee and I are planning our honeymoon for November this year. I have come up with a basic itinerary. We have 30 days to get from Amsterdam to Naples, we are planning on going to Paris, Bordeaux, Tuscany, Rome, Pompeii. We both like food and wine and don't want the holiday to be too busy. We are interested in doing a short (2-3 day) tour of Bordeaux and Tuscany if these can be arranged. We will be travelling with a Eurail pass so want to stay in places that are accessible to everything. Please review the below interary and if anyone can suggest better places to stay/better things to do that would be appreciated!

Some specific questions:
Where are 2 nice places to stop between Bordeaux and Florence?

Thanks,
Megan

Day 1 Preston - Amsterdam (dep Manchester)
Day 2 Amsterdam
Day 3 Amsterdam - Paris (Thalys Train)
Day 4 Paris
Day 5 Paris
Day 6 Paris
Day 7 Paris
Day 8 Paris - Bordeaux
Day 9 Bordeaux
Day 10 Bordeaux
Day 11 Bordeaux
Day 12 Bordeaux
Day 13 Bordeaux
Day 14 Avignon - Nice
Day 15 Nice - Florence
Day 16 Florence
Day 17 Florence
Day 18 Florence - Siena
Day 19 Siena
Day 20 Siena
Day 21 Siena
Day 22 Siena - Rome
Day 23 Rome
Day 24 Rome
Day 25 Rome
Day 26 Rome
Day 27 Rome - Naples
Day 28 Naples -
Day 29 Naples -
Day 30 Naples - London (fly out)

MClasberg

I should probably note that I have tried to take into account the possible poor weather, I would love to do Lake Como, Cinque Terra and Amalfi Coast but this time of the year it may not be the best.

kybourbon

Have you already purchased a pass as they may not be your best option? The bus is a better option between some cities such as Florence/Siena and Siena/Rome. I would think in Bordeaux you would need a car and also one in Tuscany (Siena).

Have you already booked airfare? If not, you should book into one city and home from another (use the multicity selection on airfare websites).

Do you have particular plans for Naples or do you mean the coast?

Michael

Unless you really are a connoisseur of Bordeaux wines, I suggest that Burgundy would be a better destination; it has more touristic interests and is in a more direct route to Avignon.

Jodi_Hickman

I think your itinerary looks good so far, all awesome places. I will tell you that in my opinion you may want more time in Tuscany, if you end up switching anything around. its very relaxed and so beautiful, you want to take your time there. there are buses that go everywhere, so if you dont have a car it may be a good idea to base yourself somewhere that will be easy to take little half day trips out to villages, wineries etc. or somewhere you can get far on a bike from. You may also need an extra day in the Naples area, because there is a lot to see on the amalfi coast and another special place you dont want to rush. I think you mentioned Positano and pompeii- Positano is the most beautiful little town on amalfi coast, be sure to check it out. busses go along the coast and are like less than $5 to get from one place to the next, so if youre on a budget do it that way instead of a private driver or tour bus. Sorrento is where we stayed while exploring the Amalfi coast, and its a very cute little town and perfect base for getting to all the little towns on the coast- you can even catch a ferry to Capri for a day trip from there. Personally, I DO NOT like Naples, its just too crazy for me I guess- doesnt feel like italy and was quite a shock after places like cinque terre, tuscany, etc. Honestly, Im sure there are a lot of great things about Naples, but I would recommend skipping it because there are so many other places that I love in southern italy. I understand your concern abou the weather though.. if I were you, I would skip naples and go to venice before or after florence. I know its a little out of the way, but it is probably the most unique and beautiful place youll ever go to. if youre open to it, there might be a sleeper train from France..? Then it wouldnt feel so out of the way If you havent bought your train passes, you may want to do some more research and compare costs of individual tickets. For us, on a month long trip with a similar itinerary to yours, it was way cheaper to get tickets point to point. For france, go through thalys.com, and italy, trenitalia.com- theres an english option in top rt corner.. Good luck! have fun!

MClasberg

Hi,

Wow, thanks for getting back to me so quickly.

We have not bought Eurail passes as yet, I will do a comparison and see what is the cheapest option.

We have airfares and due to booking on frequent flyer points are flying in and out of London.

No particular plans for Naples, I want to do Pompeii and was looking at Sicily but can't find a flight out that connects with our departing flight from London. I put Naples, but I meant the coast, I don't really have any ideas for specific accomodation as yet, and we were not planning on booking accomodation as we don't want to be locked in in case we like somewhere and want to stay longer.

We do not drink a lot of Bordeaux wines and are not connoisseurs, however we do love our red wines. If you suggest Burgundy would be a better location I am more than open to changing the itinerary to there. Would you suggest Beaune or Dijon as a base?

I have been to Veince before and yes, it does seem out of the way.

What will Positano be like at the end of November, I don't want to put in places that we should go to next time it's better weather ;-)

Thanks!
Megan

MClasberg

I have had a look at the prices of individual train trips compared to the Eurail pass, and it seems that point to point is cheaper, however, as I said we want to be fairly flexible, do the fares generally go up from what is listed, how likely are cheap fares a couple of days prior to departure, would it be better to have the Eurail pass for the longer/more expensive journeys, or will point to point still be better value if we book a couple of days prior to departure?

Also if travelling from Beuane/Dijon to Florence what would be the top 2 places to stop at along the way, especially considering it will be November, is Nice worth it or should we look at somewhere else.

kybourbon

Keep in mind that for Italy's fast trains you are required to buy seat reservations (10€ each) which are not included in the price of the pass. For Italy, use Trenitalia to price tickets. The base price you see will remain the same even if you purchase at the station right before hopping on the train. The base price includes the seat reservation. The base fares on for the French trains should be the same also. Both have some advance purchase discount tickets, but November is too far out to buy and they tie you into a certain schedule.

For Florence/Siena, the bus is better because it drops you in the historic center. The train station is at the edge of the city so if you train, you would then have to get transport to the center. Most places you visit from Siena would require a car or bus as trains don't go to the small hill towns. If you do train between Florence/Siena, these are old, slow R trains (7€) so you wouldn't want to use a pass day. The bus costs the same and takes the same amount of time plus it drops you in the center.
http://www.sitabus.it/sita-toscana/F...-Siena2010.pdf

Some of your routes in Italy are better by bus or the train is so cheap (under 10€), it wouldn't make sense to spend a day off a pass.

For Rome/Siena, you would want to take the Sena bus as the trains are old R trains that require changes.
http://www.sena.it/Home/78-1-en.html

From Naples to Sorrento, it's a private train line not included on the pass. From Sorrento to Positano/Amalfi there are no trains so you would need buses.

There is supplement (about 30€) for the Thalys on top of the pass price. Some trains in France limit the number of passholders although I doubt it will be a problem in November. Pass supplement fees for the French TGV trains range from 5€ to about 50€.
http://www.ricksteves.com/rail/pdfs/reservations.pdf

If point to point is cheaper, there is no reason to buy a pass.

I would want hotel reservations for Paris and Rome as they are busy cities all the time. Frankly, I wouldn't want to spend my honeymoon searching for a hotel every night, but since it's November, you shouldn't have much of a problem.

>>>Also if travelling from Beuane/Dijon to Florence what would be the top 2 places to stop at along the way, especially considering it will be November, is Nice worth it or should we look at somewhere else.<<<

You need to look at a map of train lines. You can only stop somewhere on the train lines.

StCirq

I sincerely doubt you'll enjoy that much time in Bordeaux, especially if you're not a connoisseur of Bordeaux wines. In fact, I'd strike it off the list and substitute Burgundy or even Alsace instead, and I say this as someone who has spent a great deal of time in Bordeaux. It's not a particularly appealing city or region, unless you head for the seashore or inland to the Dordogne. It's also not a logical choice geographically, since you're headed to Italy.

I doubt a rail pass will be cheaper for you. In France and Italy, major discounts on rail tickets can be had if you purchase on line well in advance of your travel dates. For France, go to www.voyages-sncf.com or www.tgv-europe.com and do NOT say that the USA is your country of origin (or you will end up on the high-priced Eurail site). For Italy, go to Trenitalia. To figure out where to stop, as noted, look at maps of where the train lines go.

MClasberg

OK, so some more planning has gone into the honeymoon and the new itinerary is:

Day 1 - Manchester - Amsterdam
Day 2 - Amsterdam
Day 3 - Amsterdam
Day 4 - Amsterdam - Paris (Thalys Train)
Day 5 - Paris
Day 6 - Paris
Day 7 - Paris
Day 8 - Paris
Day 9 - Paris - Beaune (pickup car in Dijon?)
Day 10 - Beaune
Day 11 - Beaune
Day 12 - Beaune
Day 13 - Beaune
Day 14 - Beaune - Dijon (to get over night train to Venice)
Day 15 - Venice
Day 16 - Venice
Day 17 - Venice - Florence
Day 18 - Florence
Day 19 - Florence
Day 20 - Florence - Siena
Day 21 - Siena
Day 22 - Siena
Day 23 - Siena - Rome
Day 24 - Rome
Day 25 - Rome
Day 26 - Rome
Day 27 - Rome
Day 28 - Rome
Day 29 - Rome - Pompeii
Day 30 - Pompeii - Naples then fly to London
Day 31 - Hong Kong for day (stop over on way home)

Have decided not to get the Eurail pass, much cheaper not to.

Is it better to get a hire car for Burgundy in Dijon or Beaune?

Please let me know your thoughts on this new version.

Many thanks,
Megan

StCirq

Looks good to me. Nice going!

Michael

I would drop a day from Rome and add one to Naples.