New Schengen countries from tomorrow
Dec 20th, 2007, 12:25 PM
#1
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New Schengen countries from tomorrow
Tomorrow,
Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia, Malta, Poland, Slovakia, Slovenia, Czech, Hungary, and Cyprus join the Schengen area.
I've seen on Austrian TV, that quite a few people in the border region are panicing.
Hope everything goes well.
Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia, Malta, Poland, Slovakia, Slovenia, Czech, Hungary, and Cyprus join the Schengen area.
I've seen on Austrian TV, that quite a few people in the border region are panicing.
Hope everything goes well.
Dec 20th, 2007, 02:30 PM
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Here is an article from today's International Herald Tribune regarding the opening of the border between Germany and Poland.
http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/12/...ope/border.php
http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/12/...ope/border.php
Dec 20th, 2007, 02:43 PM
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Thanks for that.
Interstingly the ONE report this articele mentions as:
>"has been followed in the German media, it has been largely scare stories"
was the one from Austrian TV (ORF2) I mentioned and not from any German station. Doesn't shed a good light on the IHT report, imho. They don't get their facts straight.
Interstingly the ONE report this articele mentions as:
>"has been followed in the German media, it has been largely scare stories"
was the one from Austrian TV (ORF2) I mentioned and not from any German station. Doesn't shed a good light on the IHT report, imho. They don't get their facts straight.
Dec 20th, 2007, 03:04 PM
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The note on the German media, doing "scare stories" isn't correct. There was this on report on Austrian TV, that the article refers to, hardly sounds like "largely scare stories" to me. German media was very restraint not exaggerating anything and focused on the parties going on at the border.
Why the IHT would report like they did, I don't know..
Why the IHT would report like they did, I don't know..
Dec 20th, 2007, 03:16 PM
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Biggest concern is of course security, not petty street crime (nobody would worry about another purse snatcher coming, just idiots get the money stolen by them ;-) ), but burglaries that are on the rise constantly, done by well organzied (violent!!) groups that come fast and are gone across the border in no time.
Dec 20th, 2007, 03:22 PM
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logos, Let me make sure I understand. It was Austrian TV reports that were exaggerating and focusing on the scare aspects, not the German media as the IHT article indicaated. Right?
Why do you think Austrian TV focused on the scare angle?
Why do you think Austrian TV focused on the scare angle?
Dec 20th, 2007, 03:39 PM
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>Right?
Right
>Austria
They are a small country with, in respect to their size, a very large border with Czech, Hungary and Slovenia. It's a safe area without much crime. In eastern Germany people are far more used to any sort of possible crime, less wealthy and (therefore?) less scared.
That at least would be my explanation.
Right
>Austria
They are a small country with, in respect to their size, a very large border with Czech, Hungary and Slovenia. It's a safe area without much crime. In eastern Germany people are far more used to any sort of possible crime, less wealthy and (therefore?) less scared.
That at least would be my explanation.
Dec 20th, 2007, 10:08 PM
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Many people are totally misinformed with regard to what the Schengen Treaty means. They think, the countries open their borders, send the cops and border patrol home, and millions of illegal aliens float into their countries. These fears can easily be transformed into headlines by the media.
In fact, the borders simply move (in Continental Europe) eastwards, and get fortified there.
While the official checkpoints of the former border crossings are vacated, police and border patrol get vested with more powers. In Schengen countries, police may stop and check ID on any "major traffic route", i.e. freeways, federal highways, in trains etc. at their own discretion.
So, what Schengen does is to shift law enforcement and immigrations from official border crossings to the hinterland.
The reason why (maybe) Eastern Germany is more relaxed than Austria would be IMO the aforementioned fact that Austria is (almost) landlocked by countries which today got into the Schengen zone. And: when you look at a map, you will see that most of the Eastern border of Germany to Poland is a pretty decent big river - the River Elbe.
It is also a myth that border regions are suffering most impact from illegal immigration, and have shooting and looting in the streets every day. Only the very stupid illegal immigrant stays in the border counties (which are not heavily populated in Eastern Germany, so the "stranger" is quite visible). They will usually try to go West to disappear as quickly as possible in the major cities. I think that is more or less the procedure everywhere in the world.
In fact, the borders simply move (in Continental Europe) eastwards, and get fortified there.
While the official checkpoints of the former border crossings are vacated, police and border patrol get vested with more powers. In Schengen countries, police may stop and check ID on any "major traffic route", i.e. freeways, federal highways, in trains etc. at their own discretion.
So, what Schengen does is to shift law enforcement and immigrations from official border crossings to the hinterland.
The reason why (maybe) Eastern Germany is more relaxed than Austria would be IMO the aforementioned fact that Austria is (almost) landlocked by countries which today got into the Schengen zone. And: when you look at a map, you will see that most of the Eastern border of Germany to Poland is a pretty decent big river - the River Elbe.
It is also a myth that border regions are suffering most impact from illegal immigration, and have shooting and looting in the streets every day. Only the very stupid illegal immigrant stays in the border counties (which are not heavily populated in Eastern Germany, so the "stranger" is quite visible). They will usually try to go West to disappear as quickly as possible in the major cities. I think that is more or less the procedure everywhere in the world.
Dec 20th, 2007, 10:16 PM
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>Elbe
Sounds like Freudian to me
.
1989, those were the days...
But still not one single "scare story" on German TV this morning, just celebrations and of course news of the new Bahn strikes to come. Wonder why nobody posted this yet.
Sounds like Freudian to me
.1989, those were the days...
But still not one single "scare story" on German TV this morning, just celebrations and of course news of the new Bahn strikes to come. Wonder why nobody posted this yet.
Dec 20th, 2007, 10:55 PM
#15
On 'gap year' travel forums, the biggest worry about the expanded Schengen zone is the 90-day rule. Lots of Australians could spend 6 or 9 months in Europe by juggling with time spent in the British Isles, the previous Schengen zone, and the countries of central Europe. Now they will have to go considerably farther afield if they want to respect the Schengen rules.
Dec 21st, 2007, 12:20 AM
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True, I think we have seen a number of discussion on Schengen visa regulations also here.
But I am wondering how many people it really affects. You can still go 3 months to the Schengen zone, 3 months out, 3 months back into Schengen.
But I am wondering how many people it really affects. You can still go 3 months to the Schengen zone, 3 months out, 3 months back into Schengen.
Dec 21st, 2007, 12:55 AM
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The rule is still 90 days out of 180 in Schengen, but now that the Schengen zone has expanded, long term visitors will need to go further afield to stay in Europe
beyond three months.
The UK, which is not in Schengen, plans to reduce tourist stays from six months to three months as well.
beyond three months.
The UK, which is not in Schengen, plans to reduce tourist stays from six months to three months as well.
Dec 21st, 2007, 01:29 AM
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I would never argue that it is a hassle for long-term tourists.
I was simply wondering how many people it will really affect. Are we talking about a few thousand or less tourists from non-Schengen and non-EU countries who want to stay for more than 3 months - and who can afford to stay that long without illegal work?
On the other hand you have roughly 400 million people in the Schengen countries who benefit from the new regulations when they travel.
One possible repercussion for air travel could be that airports in the Schengen zone reduce facilities for non-Schengen flights, and thus visitors from overseas or UK & ROI may face longer lines at passport control. But I doubt that this will be the case at the major hubs.
I was simply wondering how many people it will really affect. Are we talking about a few thousand or less tourists from non-Schengen and non-EU countries who want to stay for more than 3 months - and who can afford to stay that long without illegal work?
On the other hand you have roughly 400 million people in the Schengen countries who benefit from the new regulations when they travel.
One possible repercussion for air travel could be that airports in the Schengen zone reduce facilities for non-Schengen flights, and thus visitors from overseas or UK & ROI may face longer lines at passport control. But I doubt that this will be the case at the major hubs.
Dec 21st, 2007, 02:11 AM
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Apart from straightforward illegals, the group it's most likely to affect are, as Kerouac says, Australian/NZ gap-yearers.
With a UK Working Holiday or Ancestry visa, they can work in Britain, but are limited in their Schengen visits. Unlike other tourists, money's not really an issue for them: they'll be earning in Britain - often in the kind of contract jobs where it's possible to do a few weeks, pop over to a Spanish beach, then come back again to earn a bit more. Or they can easily work illegally in Europe, since it's pretty easy to jump an Easyjet back to a mate's sofa in Earl's Court if you look like getting caught.
How many of them are there? Stand in a few London pubs, and it feels like the entire population of Sydney.
With a UK Working Holiday or Ancestry visa, they can work in Britain, but are limited in their Schengen visits. Unlike other tourists, money's not really an issue for them: they'll be earning in Britain - often in the kind of contract jobs where it's possible to do a few weeks, pop over to a Spanish beach, then come back again to earn a bit more. Or they can easily work illegally in Europe, since it's pretty easy to jump an Easyjet back to a mate's sofa in Earl's Court if you look like getting caught.
How many of them are there? Stand in a few London pubs, and it feels like the entire population of Sydney.
Dec 21st, 2007, 03:01 AM
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The expansion of the Schengen Zone is going to box me in, if I play it legal. I am planning a five month trip for the spring and summer. Street ID checks by local cops is something to think about. They already do that in Switzerland and I was stopped once.
