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AMS-MUC-SZG-VCE itinerary for the winter holidays

AMS-MUC-SZG-VCE itinerary for the winter holidays

Old Jul 20th, 2007, 11:43 AM
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AMS-MUC-SZG-VCE itinerary for the winter holidays

Hi all,

I have another itinerary in need of suggestions/advice/approval...

My husband (Tim) and I (Liz) are traveling with his family (MIL, FIL, BIL-1, BIL-2 and BIL_2's Fiancee) to Munich and Venice. Due to work schedules, we are arriving in three different "shifts" and departing in two different "shifts", but we will all overlap for six nights.

Of the seven of us, only Tim, BIL_2's Fiancee, and I have been to Europe.

Here is our itinerary-- any suggestions?

Saturday, December 22nd
BIL_1 (M, 25 years old) and I (27 years old) arrive in Amsterdam at 6:30am, and we have 8.75 hours until our flight to Munich. I have been to Amsterdam three times and hope to walk him through the Red Light District, over to the Anne Frank Huis, and have a pancake lunch before returning to the aiport around 1pm for our 3:15pm flight. Do you think that is do-able?

After arriving in Munich, we will check in to the Hotel Uhland for 8 nights and likely head over to the Hofbrauhaus for dinner.

Sunday, December 23rd
The two of us explore Munich, the Christmas markets and perhaps take a WWII or Brewery walking tour.

Monday, December 24th
The two of us take a daytrip to a neighboring area, perhaps Garmisch-Partenkirchen to ski?

Tuesday, December 25th
The two of us may travel to Salzburg for the day. Any other Christmas suggestions?

Wednesday, December 26th
Tim, MIL and FIL arrive in morning.
Afternoon in Munich.
Maybe BMW factory tour or WWII walking tour in afternoon?

Thursday, December 27th
BIL_2 and his fiancee arrive in morning.
Morning in Munich.
Afternoon in Dachau (incl. 3:30 English film)

Friday, December 28th
Daytrip to Neuschwanstein and ???
Should we take the train, or hire a driver for the seven of us?

Saturday, December 29th
Daytrip to Salzburg
Fortress
Possibly Sound of Music tour (for MIL) and/or Salt Mine Tour

Sunday, December 30th
Train from Munich to Venice, arriving at 6:30pm in Venice.
Check into Locanda Orseolo
Spritzes and Dinner

Monday, December 31st
Secret Itineraries Tour
Saint Mark's Basilica
Wander Venice
NYE Festivities (?)

Tuesday, January 1st
Possible daytrip to Murano/Burano, depending on transportation schedules.
Gondola ride (can they take 7 people? Otherwise I will stay off)
Last dinner together

Wednesday, January 2nd
Everyone but Tim and Liz depart
Tim and Liz: wander, maybe a museum?
Dinner at Vini da Gigio (and I already know what I am going to order!)

Thursday, January 3rd
We depart at noon.

Any ideas? Thanks in advance!
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Old Jul 20th, 2007, 11:59 AM
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Poffertjes for lunch after a long cold walk sound good to me, but why the sleazy red light district though; it's so artificial and not really part of the true Amsterdam life. You may consider touring Amsterdam by simply taking the city tram up & down if it gets really bone chilling cold.

I would recommend getting to Salzburg before christmas because the christmas market is over after Dec 24. Another attractive winter town to consider is Mittenwald. It's easily reached by train and it has wonderful winter sceneries plus a great christmas market throughout the village.
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Old Jul 20th, 2007, 12:03 PM
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Thank you, DAX. I will check out Mittenwald and consider traveling to Salzburg earlier. I had read that it is a good place to be on Christmas...

I don't plan on spending really any time in the Red Light District, but BIL would like to see it, and since it's so close to Centraal Station, I figured a 10-15 minute detour wouldn't be a big deal before heading to the Anne Frank Huis.
Also, will anything (like a place to sit and have coffee/breakfast, not a "coffee house") be open that early in the morning (7:30-9) before the AF Huis opens?
Thanks again!
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Old Jul 20th, 2007, 12:16 PM
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DAx poffertjes are different to Pancakes. Poffertjes are small covered in icing sugar and expensive for what they are. Pancakes are large, filling and come in sweet or savoury.
I too would give the RLD a miss, certainly that early in the morning there will be nothing much to see, and concentrate on seeing the Anne Frank Huis and just wandering around, or take a canal boat ride - heated and gives a flavour of the place. Arriving from the US you will be worn out after a while as jet lag gets you. You need to be back at Schiphol no later than 1 pm - maybe you should opt to eat at Schiphol instead of in the city
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Old Jul 20th, 2007, 05:48 PM
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Thanks hetismij!

We may have to eat at Schiphol. If our flight is at 3:15 but we already have boarding passes, and our luggage is checked through, what time do you think we need to depart Centraal Station for Schiphol?
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Old Jul 20th, 2007, 08:50 PM
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HETismij:
I was mentioning poffertjes as an alternative suggestion to the pannekoek if the pancake place serves it. It's something that my mother used to make for me as a treat even though I love dutch pancake as well. Of course home made is so much better.

LIZ:
I can't help you with early morning coffee shops because I always get breakfast with my hotel room. I would recommend that you buy breakfast from the airport supermarket or bakery on the groundfloor as you walk toward the train station and enjoy it on the train to Amsterdam. If your plane departs at 3:15 then boarding time is from 2:30 to 3 pm. I think you should have time to eat in Amsterdam. It's not that far and the train goes right under the airport.

I've spent christmas eve in Salzburg twice but I have no memory of anything special on christmas day other than church mass and lunch. I can give you a list of the good restaurants if you like.

Since you're staying in a hotel instead of an apartment, you may consider staying a couple of nights in Salzburg. I've skied in a nearby resort (St Johann im Pongau) which has a direct train connection with Salzburg. It has 2 other ski resorts all connected by chairlifts so you can really roam the mountain, valleys and villages. I've skied there twice because the ski run actually passes through a little village and on the next resort there is a huge bowl filled with bars & restaurants broadcasting german music. We made plenty of beer/wine stops, as well as lunch and cake stops as a family. They are small friendly places with easy access so we didn't hesitate to make frequent stops.

We brought our ski jackets and gloves and rented everything else in St Johann im Pongau. Salzburg will also give you access to enjoy the Salkammergut area like Mondsee, Bad ischl etc but the crown jewel is Hallstatt which can be reached by train & boat from Salzburg. I would recommend moving to Salzburg before christmas so you get to see the christmas markt in both cities.

I strongly recommend going to Mittenwald instead of Garmish-P which is not as charming. Again you should go before christmas if you want to enjoy the market.
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Old Jul 21st, 2007, 07:06 AM
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DAX-

Thank you so much for your detailed info!

A few questions... would Mittenwald still have a good "Christmas-y" feeling/atmosphere even after Christmas? I ask because MIL really wanted to visit the Christmas Markets or something similar, but could not arrive until the 26th. Any other suggestions?

Also, will there definitely be snow in St Johann im Pongau, or will it depend on the weather? We haven't decided whether we will ski/snowbard yet, as BIL lives in Colorado, and I am not a big skier and will just go along with what he does. (Long sentence there.)

Thanks again!
Liz
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Old Jul 21st, 2007, 12:11 PM
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From my limited experience, the christmas market seems to end on Christmas eve in this part of Germany/Austria. I've heard that some of the markets continue beyond christmas in the northwestern part (Ruhr area) of Germany and Belgium.

I've gone to Mittenwald when there was no christmas market, it still has beautiful painted buildings covered with snow but not quite the festive santa's village atmosphere.

Snow/weather is so unpredictable with all the recent global warming anomalies. As far as I'm aware there's always snow in the Austrian Alps around christmas time, not sure about this past winter though. Now that you mention your relative is an avid skier from Colorado, I have to tell you that the resort is more geared toward intermediate & low advanced skiers. I don't remember any great double black diamonds mogul runs, they tend to be groomed meandering runs of various inclination. The chairlifts are all different from the modern clam shell style & fast gondolas to the old fashioned double chairs. It's ideal for a touring skiing to enjoy the nice atmosphere & views. No cliff jumping or dramatic glacier skiing. I think you'll enjoy skiing there even if you're just going along.
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Old Jul 21st, 2007, 12:16 PM
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Hi T&L,

>...hope to walk him through the Red Light District,..<

Other than the usual rowdy responses, that's the best you can think to do in Amsterdam?

Otherwise, you have a nice itinerary.



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Old Jul 21st, 2007, 12:22 PM
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Ira- Obviously, visiting the RLD is *not* "the best [I] can think of to do in Amsterdam."

Did you see the mention of the long walk from the RLD or Centraal Station to the Anne Frank Huis, which covers a beautiful area? Visiting the AF Huis? Pancakes?

And, call me crazy, but almost every 25-year old American male I know would at least want to stroll through the RLD on his first visit to Amsterdam.

DAX- Thank you again for your suggestions. I will take your advice with me when the two of us decide how to spend the first few days of our vacation. I truly appreciate the time you've taken to helpfully respond to my questions!

Liz
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Old Jul 21st, 2007, 05:03 PM
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You might wish to go to Hofbrauhaus just to see it, but if it's good food you want, consider the Altes Hackerhaus on Sendlingerstrasse off of Marienplatz. A better-food-with-oompa alternative to the HBhaus is Donisl, right on the Marienplatz, next to the Neues Rathaus.
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Old Jul 21st, 2007, 05:28 PM
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Not sure why you'll go to Salzburg twice - or what's open on Christmas. If you're all going to Salzburg later why not do Innsbruck instead on Christmas? (A different cute town and pretty trip through the mountains.)
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Old Jul 22nd, 2007, 08:09 AM
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I strongly prefer Salzburg over Innsbruck (I've stayed there a couple of times too though not for christmas). Salzburg just has more to offer. However you can actually combine Innsbruck with Mittenwald on a daytrip since it's on the same train route.

I agree with JN, Hofbrauhaus was a complete disappointment, poor service and food quality. We were there when it was empty and they got our order mixed up. They brought us orange juice when we ordered beer and they insisted that's what we ordered. We were too jetlagged to argue. They apologized later for the mix up but we already had our bad meal by then. The ambiance was also disappointing, it's a poor tourist trap with relatively expensive prices.
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Old Jul 23rd, 2007, 11:24 AM
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More thanks to those who have replied!

JN- Thanks for the recs.

nytraveler- I put Salzburg in the itinerary twice because I think we will go there as a group, but I had read it is a good place to spend Christmas for me and BIL. If we find something else to do on Christmas Day (like Innsbruck), we will skip it the first time.

DAX- Do you know how much approx a train ticket to Mittenwald should cost? On the train website, I am seeing fares of 38 Euro per person, each way. Sounds steep, considering we can travel to Venice for less than that amount.
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Old Jul 23rd, 2007, 02:12 PM
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Liz:
You can buy the Bayern Ticket ( 27 euro) good for 2 adults and up to 3 children (below 15 years old) travelling anywhere inside Bavaria (including Mittenwald, Salzburg)from 9am to 3am (18 hour window).
There is also a 19 euro Single Bayern Ticket for one person.
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Old Jul 23rd, 2007, 02:41 PM
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If you decide to go to Innsbruck from Mittenwald, it only cost 9.70 euro each way per person. Basically train to Innsbruck will cost you more than Salzburg (which can be reached using the Beyern ticket for 2 adults + 3 children for 27 eur).
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