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American's in France
I have a number of American friends resident in a France who are getting the run around from the French authorities over their "Cartes de Séjour"
Apparently there was a new law on foreigners resident in France recently introduced by Sarkozy. Does anyone know any more? The reference for the law would be greatly appreciated. |
You wouldn't want to let us know what the exact problem is would you?
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In the past they have renewed their one year carte de séjour (residents permit) on an annual basis (logically), now they are getting another cover document that is only valid for 90 days, meaning repeated visits to the authorities and a heap of paperwork.
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Where did you get this 'information' from ?
BTW : Mr Sarkozy is a minister (and for internal affairs, not foreign affairs), law are vited by the Niational Assembly in France, not decided by a minister. There is nothing like what you mention on the goverment websites : i checked; foreign affairs, prime minister (and internal affairs just in case...) Cartes de séjour exist in 6 months, 1 year, 3 years and 5 years versions - they are LONG TERM authorisations. |
By "cover document", perhaps you are referring to the "récipissé" that you receive when you apply for a carte de séjour - it's a temporary document that is valid while your application is being processed. But it has been standard practice for years, so it's not a new thing...
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And the students 'Carte de Sejour' have NEVER been issued SYSTEMATICALLY for one year, they are delivered for a sufficient period to allow the person to complete the cursus (s)he in enrolled in.
For instance, for someone coming for only one semester, the authorisation is delivered for a 6 months stay. |
My sources are Americans who have been resident in France for more than five years.
The récipissé is very unusual if you already have a Carte de Séjour and are having it extended/renewed. Anyway, I have located the answer to my own question. There is a new law tightening up on all immigration, and bizarely for France, has not been withdrawn due to public protest. Stopping the automatic renewal of Cartes de Séjour being one of the results. Also all non EU residents have to now, among other things, take French lessons and pass a test, as well as signing a contract agreeing to principles of the Republic. http://www.americanchronicle.com/art...articleID=9800 Sarkozy is the Minister of the Interior, and responsible for issuing id cards and passports. Any minister, or deputy can propose any law. Being the head of the majority party helps get it passed. |
I was given a récipissé when I renewed my carte de séjour, but I'm an EU citizen so perhaps the procedure was different. In fact each time I applied to extend my carte de séjour or changed address (3 times in all) my old card was taken from me and a récipissé issued in its place, until the new card was ready.
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I had almost every year during the ten years needed a récipissé, since the paperwork was too slow. This isn't any Sarkozy "laws" and just slow government machines.
After reading this article and looking into other articles by this author, many of his articles are themed about immigration. Mostly these articles were about Mexicans. Certainly I don't see much about any law this mentions. I think that the politician "Le Pen" wanted to institute something like this law but he hasn't elected. Blackduff |
There seems to be some kind of bizarre denial going on here. Regardless of the political leanings of the author that I linked to earlier.
The law is fact.... Try the French Government: LOI n° 2006-911 du 24 juillet 2006 relative à l'immigration et à l'intégration (1) http://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/WAspad...o=INTX0600037L Wasn't easy to find. To my knowledge a récipisse is valid until the carte de séjour is ready, and doesn't have a 90 day expiry date. My first Carte de Séjour took 7 months. They have moved the goal posts... |
Warig : do you speak perfect french ?
Raeding the text : ththe item added to the existing law is for students having a professional activity or for people changing their status (from 'pure' student to working student or worker).- the rule is about the working permit part of the sojourn card |
I send too fast : and they have to modify their carte de sejour in the 3 month following the status change not every 3 months.
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Please waring, point the article number in the french text : i'm reading it for the 5th time, i'm a native french speaker and the only 3 months mentions i can found are about the recepisse and the status change (from student to worker, marriage with a french citizen, political asylum seeking, ..)
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5 years is the normal cut off for one year temporary resident carte de sejours. Once you collect 5 of the one year cards, you then get to pass go and get a permenant resident card that is valid for 10 years. Yes it does require LOADS of paperwork and is like starting over but you will get a 10 year card for your effort.
Pre-Sarkozy I believe the cut off was 3 years and I have heard that the 10 year cards was automatic rather than requiring a whole new procedure. However, these changes were made prior to the July 06 law. |
MorganB
<i>5 years is the normal cut off for one year temporary resident carte de sejours. Once you collect 5 of the one year cards, you then get to pass go and get a permenant resident card that is valid for 10 years</i> This may be correct for EU people but for Americans it takes ten years of Carte de Sejour. We waited and waited but it did arrive after the ten years. I have other Americans and they're in the same situation. Our mayor tried to push the authorities to get ours earlier but no avail. Blackduff |
Hmm interesting, I am american actually and was told it was 5 by the prefecture. I havent gotten to the 5 year point however so i cant confirm. Maybe it depends on the type of carte de sejour?
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That article doesn't seem like legitimate journalism from a legitimate journalist. And he can't even spell Mali... Mixes issues of unskilled labor from countries with high numbers of undocumented migrants and unrelated issues in a way no skilled journalist would. He's an ex-cop and may have been a good cop at that, but...
It reads like something from Fox "News". Not to be trusted. Suggest we look elsewhere for facts. |
I'm not sure of the significance of the 3 months, however, being fluent in French, all I know from this is that the situation regarding the issuing of Cartes de Séjour has changed.
I now have the reference for the law, (which is what I wanted to know), and my friend can consult a lawyer. My friend had a carte de séjour, went to renew it, the conditions have changed, they won't issue him a new one, (maybe just for the moment)he has a "document" covering him until his situation is reassessed. I think the problem is, that this new law is aimed primarily at regularising the status of workers, and my friend is retired, with his income coming from abroad. Blackduff is probably right in that the local Prefecture probably hasn't got itself up to speed on the new situation. With regard to author, I posted that as it was in English. The guy has indeed put a spin on it, however if you do a search on "LOI n° 2006-911" you will find a heap of websites saying effectively the same thing regarding the change in legislation. |
MorganB
<i>Maybe it depends on the type of carte de sejour?</i> More plausable that the Prefecture might be different. I've heard of this but it sure took all of the ten years on mine and my wife's too. I have a friend who received his Residence when he had been in France for ten years. His wife (Brazilian)had to wait a year longer, since she didn't arrive in France for a year after the husband arrived. My paperwork was formalized, so the ten years wasn't too bad. I just made a bunch of copies of the needed documents and have it all ready. Blackduff |
waring, i'm still wating for you to point where in the legal text you quote is the mention about 'an american student has to renew a carte de sejour each 3 months)
or - at least where the is a mention of a 3 months period (except for the recepisse and the status change) |
When did I mention students? Not me, not once.
My friend is a retired lawyer in his sixties. He has other aquaintances in the same situation, none of which are students, none of which work. Why are we hooked on the three months issue? This conversation has all the intellectual vigour of a tupperware party in Stepford. My question was what is this law on immigration implemented by Sarkozy? Response: There is no law Response: Sarkozy cannot implement laws Then we start wobbling on about students. The Sarkozy Law does exist:LOI n° 2006-911 du 24 juillet 2006 relative à l'immigration et à l'intégration (1) Which is the answer to my question. To really open up a can of worms, we are on St Barthelemy, part of the department of Guadeloupe. St Barts is in the process of becoming a COM, basically splitting from Guadeloupe and the island will have control over immigration. My friend has been renewing his Carte de Séjour anually for five years, with or without a récipissé, which is not the issue. Now he is being presented with a "document" meaning he has to present himself at the sous-prefecture every 90 days, which is unusual and a FACT. We want to know if this is because of the island, Guadeloupe or Paris, and the Sarkozy law is an interesting twist. |
And i'm still waiting about where the 3 month are mentionned in the law addenda from july 2006
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I didn't do that grumpy face on purpose. : L without the space. Neat :)
We are still stuck on the 3 months aren't we? When did I say it did? Not me, never, not once. I said my friend had to present himself at the prefecture every 3 months, and never that the Sarkozy law was behind it. On a cursory reading it doesn't, which is neither here nor there, and totally irrelevant to my original question. This leads us to believe that is possibly not the Sarkozy Law that is causing my friend hassle. Therefore we look elsewhere. There are articles pertaining specifically to Guadeloupe which may be relevant, however, as you point out, this is an addendum, and I don't have the full text of the law. |
In fact, i suppose there are several facts to consider: Saint Barthelemy has a very specific situation :
The island will change status in 2007 (getting a status closer from a country than from a french departement), is a fiscal exception for France (some rules are even different from those applying for Guadeloupe mainland, for instance : no taxes in Saint Barthelemy). There is a huge boat people problem for a tiny island too (with Haiti) combined with an illegal imigration difficult to control for the local authorities... |
Phew! I'm glad we got that cleared up.
There is little illegal immigration. Being such a small place, if someone has no work permit, is sleeping rough etc, the PAF get to find out about it pretty quickly. The Inspection du Travail takes no prisoners either. On the other hand Guadeloupe and St Martin have huge problems. Tax free? No great shakes if you are paying 25 euros for a kilo of tomatoes.. Concerns are non-resident Americans (and others), claiming to be resident, gaining tax free revenue from renting property. Under the new system St Barts will be allowed to raise its own taxes. It is my hunch that this is what's behind my friend's situation. |
This seems likely to me too !
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Just a couple of points :
My carte de sejour is for 10 years I had a covering document for the 8 months it took to be issued It is issued by the local Departement, and they are notorious for interpreting requirements differently I am not aware of any changes for long term residents (but I don't need to renew for some time) Peter |
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