Ambivalent about Albi
 

Hi,

We are planning a visit of from two to three weeks in the Lot for next spring/summer. We've spent a good amount of time in the Dordogne, so are planning to base in the north of the Lot and just dip into the Dordogne for day trips. The rest of our time will be spent in the Lot, with quick trips into the southern Correze and maybe parts of the Aveyron (Belcastel, Villefranche de Rouergue, Najac).

I was also thinking of taking a few days and heading south to Albi and maybe even Toulouse, but an article in the Times made me question whether Albi is too much reduced from what it was to be appealing. I love Toulouse-Lautrec and have always wanted to visit the museum, but the article made it sound like Albi is practically deserted downtown, and boarded up as merchants decamp to a mall on the outskirts, leaving the center of the town quite depressed (in more ways than one)

.https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/28/w...ns-fading.html

So my question is: is a trip to Albi going to be too sad, or is the article overstating its case?

Thanks.

Are you driving? If so, Albi and Toulouse would be a nice alternative after the rurality of the Lot. The brick cathedral of Albi is perhaps one of the wonders of the world.

If you are using public transportation, you might not consider it to be worth the effort.

Are you going to see a regional French town perhaps down at its heels or the TL museum and stunning cathedral?

And I would think as in any tourist town cafes and some shops still there.

I didn't think of it as a major decision, I just went for a day trip. I wouldn't go just for that museum. But I've seen many museums/galleries with his works and others, as well as special exhibitions of his works in some.

I don't remember things being deserted, this was just a few years ago but don't care about "shopping" and buying more "stuff" which I don't want nor need. Now if everything were boarded up, sure that would be grim, but it wasn't that bad. That article talks about groceries and butcher shops being closed. Sure, that might create a bleak street if half the stores were closed but doesn't affect you in any way (butcher and grocery shops) since you wouldn't be shopping in them.

It's just a day trip, if you are making it into a major expedition and stay, and omitting Toulouse in preference for Albi, no, I wouldn't do that.

We spent a few days in Albi in late June 2016 and didn't experience a deserted downtown or boarded up stores, but yes, things have changed over the years. The area around the Toulouse-Lautrec museum and the Sainte-Cecile Cathedral were quite busy day and night, as was the area around Le Couvert des Halles (marchecouvert-albi.com). We even found a real (Pays) Basque bar near the cathedral.

For lunch you can try La Table du Sommelier (www.latabledusommelier.com) on the northside of the river, over the bridge. Excellent!

https://www.google.com/search?q=albi...w=1745&bih=864

Does Albi look boarded up?

One of the most beautiful towns in France IME!

We spent 2 days & 1 night in Albi in late June of 2015. Loved it. It had been "spruced up" since we were there last in around 2003. There is a new les Halles indoor market, and the streets were newly surfaced. The storefronts all looked nice and I really didn't see many closed storefronts.

But there were not many people around - except for the day-trippers. I read the same NYT article when it first appeared. I think there are not many people really living in the old section of town anymore. As the article stated, there is a huge shopping center outside of Albi and perhaps that's where the locals go. We had dinner reservations at what looked like a very nice Michelin 1 star restaurant in the Old Town. When we arrived in Albi, our hotel had notices everywhere indicating that the restaurant had recently closed and the chef had moved elsewhere - outside of the old town. We dashed around trying to find a replacement restaurant - but couldn't find anything we liked. We finally settles on a "nice looking" place on the main square next to the traffic street that skirts the old town. After dinner, we wandered through old town and there were very few people (if any) wandering through town after dinner like they do in most cities in France. The apparent living spaces above the shops were "dark" also. The next morning, we walked over to the Les Halles market at around 9:000 - expecting it to be mobbed. It wasn't. There were only about 6 people in the market. We ordered a roasted chicken from a vendor, and he told us to return at 10:30 to pick up the roasted chicken. When we returned - there were still very few people in Les Halles.

I think the article was lamenting the fact that there is only one school in old Albi, and many of the shops there seemed to be flailing and perhaps Albi is now for the tourist, & not for the people of Albi

However, Albi is beautiful. If you have my Languedoc itinerary, read more about Albi. I describe some places to go to get great views of this city,

Stu Dudley

Thanks to everyone who responded.

Yes, we'll have a car. The tentative plan is to fly to Paris, stay a day or two to get over the jet lag, then take the train to Brive and pick up a car.

There are two reasons we're flying to Paris--first, because it's Paris, and second, because as far as I can tell there are no nonstop flights from New York to either Bordeaux or Toulouse (not surprising), and the one thing we refuse in our advanced state of decrepitude to do is to fly in stages.

For the return, as far as I can tell there is no direct train from Toulouse to Paris--or did I miss something? So from Toulouse we could train to Bordeaux, stay for a day since we've never been there, then pick up the TGV to Paris and home the next day. Or, if we skip Toulouse/Albi, we could just go back to Brive and catch the train.

Christina, we're not interested in shopping either. But we do like to visit places that have some street life, some activity, and my concern is that Albi will lack that. I've seen many, many works by T-L, too, but the idea of visiting this museum has been in the back of my mind for a long time.

I looked at the pictures, PalenQ, and they seem to be distance shots that convey how beautiful Albi is without really showing what its street life is like. But I'm convinced we'd find the town very appealing.

Robert seems the most encouraging; Stu sort of echoes my own concerns. So I guess we'll have to thrash this out and see how it fits into the larger plan!

Thank you all for your help.

So from Toulouse we could train to Bordeaux, stay for a day since we've never been there, then pick up the TGV to Paris and home the next day. Or, if we skip Toulouse/Albi, we could just go back to Brive and catch the train.>

If not familiar with French trains booking TGV tickets way ahead of time can save tons of money - www.voyages-sncf.com but those are train-specific and cannot be changed nor I think refunded but if sure of times and you don't miss the train huge savings await. Check www.seat61.com for sage info on booking your own TGVs online and for general info on French trains www.budgeteuropetravel.com and www.ricksteves.com. Toulose to Bordeaux not sure about discounts being much but check.

IME, Albi rolled up the carpets during its siesta, but OMG, I wouldn’t skip it because of that! Saint Cecilia is one of the most magnificent cathedrals I’ve had the pleasure to see, and the Musée Toulouse Lautrec should be a delight to anyone who has an interest in that artist’s work! I enjoyed a delightful meal at le Close Sainte Cecile, which still gets solid reviews.

There were some few photos of images of Albi I posted above that showed a still vibrant town in some shots:

Hot & Chilli | food and travel blog: France: a stylish break in Albi
Hot & Chilli1200 × 800Search by image
A charming and fairytale-like village located between two valleys, the epitome of medieval charm. A remarkable collection of medieval town houses and ...

https://www.google.com/search?q=albi...1WBwlcR8gXygM:

But some like that in the New York Times that showed a starkly bleak Albi (was it during siesta):

https://www.google.com/search?q=albi...BdWQm7G2D21rM:

Anyway Albi is always dear in my heart because my son was conceived there in the Camping Municipal on a long ago bicycle trip!

Oops -NYTimes article and bleak pictures:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/28/w...ns-fading.html

We stayed just outside Albi last year and did enjoy the region. We did not think Albi rundown or shut up. We only visited for a day and the centre , which is where you will be spending your time , was busy. The cathedral is stunning and the Toulouse Lautrec museum lovely. We also saw his birthplace in the city, and during our stay in the Lot et Garonne earlier in our trip we chanced on his grave in the small village of Verdelais. So full circle!!!
There are also a host of lovely villages to see in the area as well, so you could easily spend a few days there. If you click on my name you will see my trip report. Scroll down to weeks 7&8 and you can see what we did in our stay in this area.
Bon voyage.

I would visit Albi again just to see the splendid cathedral and the Lautrec museum/bishop's garden.

We did a quick trip to Albi a few years ago and wish we had had more time there. We loved the Toulouse-Lautrec museum and found the cathedral to be well worth seeing. We have been to more European churches and cathedrals than we could possibly count and after a while, many tend to blur. However, the cathedral in Albi was a delightful surprise.

Here are a few images of what to expect if you decide to visit Albi: https://www.flickr.com/photos/iberia...57684780319591

There are 10 direct trains a day from Toulouse to Paris, and it is one of the rare cities where you can choose between two different arrival stations -- Montparnasse (TGV) or Austerlitz (slower). There are also another half dozen trains with a connection in Montpellier that go to Gare de Lyon.

Thank you, kerouac; I don't know how I missed that.There's a 4 hr 19 min train that would be perfect for us and save us having to stop in Bordeaux.

If anybody's interested, Julia Frey's rather long bio of T-L is a wonderful read--what an incredibly sad life.

Thanks to everyone who responded. You've helped me firm up our itinerary: Paris--Brive--Lot--Toulouse--Paris. We'll visit Albi and Cordes-sur-Ciel as a day trip from Toulouse before heading north.

Kerouac, can you get Delta/AF to fly nonstop to Bordeaux? That would be even better.

Oh and PalenQ, I quite understand your attachment to Albi. I won't ask for details!

How near will you be to Figeac, a great little town? My favorite drive is of course along the Lot, east from Cahors.

A bit further afield but a beautiful area and somewhat ignored by tourists is tiny Najac in the Aveyron. I had one of the best lunches ever at the Hôtel l'Oustal del Barry, just across from the public car park. The restaurant terrace has incredible views. I prefer it to Cordes but easy to do both in one day.

The Lautrec museum has been completely renovated since I was there, everyone says a vast improvement. The cathedral is a bit cold and formidable, interesting because it's different.

Toulouse finally finished its renovation work in the town center, turning the main shopping street into pedestrian only and I believe completely banning traffic through the place capitole, way over due. I used to live an hour out of Toulouse, let me know if I can help with any questions.

There is also a direct overnight train Toulouse-Paris - couchettes and regular 1st and 2nd class seating.

Thanks, Cath, Figeac is pretty near the top of our list; we might have stayed there but it wasn't the most well located for some of the other places we want to see. (We're leaning toward staying around Lacave,in the north.) But we'll certainly dedicate a day to it. We've been to Rocamadour--no interest at all in repeating that experience!--but want to see all the lovely villages in the northern Lot and the southern Correze.

And we plan to make a long day trip to Villefranche de Rouergue, Belcastel, and possibly Najac if we can fit it in. Not sure if we'll get to Cahors, but we certainly plan to do the drive along the Lot around St Cirq Lapopie--maybe a ride in a gabarre?--and then the drive north along the Cele toward Figeac, although we'll probably visit the town itself on a different day to ensure that we have as much time as we want.

Planning is so much fun!

I love planning too, mine or anyone else's. If Cahors is out of the way, while a nice town I wouldn't make a hige effort. From St Cirq east it's all gorgeous. Figeac--very special ime and imo!

Figeac is one of our "top 5" small cities in France. As Cathinjoetown stated, the Cele River from St Cirq to Figeac is beautiful - lots of interesting small villages and houses built on the side of rock cliffs. If you visit Figeac, get a walking map from the Tourist Office & follow it. You can visit Figeac during lunch when shops are closed because the shopping area isn't what "makes" Figeac - it's the interesting architectures & the "drying porches".

Stu Dudley

CAthinjoetown, sorry to butt in here, but we were planning to drive from Cahors along the Lot to Figeac. I notice that some here drive from St Cirq la Popie along the Cele to Figeac instead. Would you venture an opinion on which is the more scenic route?

It was about five years ago so memory isn't exact but we stayed on the north side of the Lot for maybe 1-2 hours after St. Cirq, then cut up to Figeac. The road literally hugs the river on a slight rise, cut outs and short tunnels through the rock. I have no photos but there should be many online.

Have not done the other route, the river at Figeac was sluggish when we were there in early autumn, it's not as wide as the Lot. But, we did not drive along it for any distance.

We've driven both routes several times. On one visit, we drove from Cahors to Figeac following the Cele, and returned to Cahors on the Lot. The Cele route was much more interesting. There are more villages to wander through on the Cele. Many of the views of the Lot are obscured by vegetation.

You must not have my Dordogne itinerary - where I describe these drives in more detail, and also express our opinion about the Cele vs Lot. If you would like a copy, e-mail me at [email protected] & I'll attach one to the reply e-mail. I've sent my various itineraries to over 6,000 people on Fodors (really!) I revised my Dordogne itinerary last year after our 3 week trip to the Lot & Dordogne.

Stu Dudley

Here is the section of my Dorodnge itinerary that describes the St Cirq Lapopie/Figeac area:

Visiting the sites east of the A20

My wife & I stayed in this region and rented a gite in Carennac for 2 weeks in early Sept 2016. As I mentioned earlier, if you are planning on visiting the Dordogne for 6 nights or more, spend some time in this area by either staying for 2-3 nights, or visiting it on the way from or to the Languedoc or Provence regions east of the Dordogne.

Someone recently asked me to name our favorite "cute little villages" in this "east of the A20" region. They are:
St Cirq Lapopie**
Carennac*+
Martel*
Collonges la Rouge**
Rocamadour does not fit my definition of a "cute little village"
As noted below, Figeac is one of our "top 5" small cities in France

To describe the sites to visit, I'll suggest two "day trips" from the Central/Sarlat Dordogne area, plus comments on "what's left?"

If you only have time for one day-trip in this area
I would recommend heading out early and drive to the St Cirq Lapopie and the Pech Merle Cave area. Pech Merle is a 1 1/2 hr scenic drive from Sarlat via Gourdon. Reserve ahead for Pech Merle*** http://en.pechmerle.com/ and try to get an early morning tour. The cave opens at either 9:15 or 9:30 in the tourist season. There is also a museum associated with the cave. Pech Merle is the only cave you can visit that has both stalactites & mites and pre-historic cave paintings. It's our favorite in the region. After visiting Pech Merle (or before, if you reserved later in the morning) visit St Cirq Lapopie** - one of the best "Plus Beaux Villages" in France https://www.francetoday.com/travel/t...llages-france/ . St Cirq would be a good choice for lunch. After Pech Merle/St Cirq, drive along the beautiful Cele River* (D41) to one of our "top 5" small cities in France - Figeac**. While driving along the Cele River to Figeac, admire the medieval houses built into the sides of the stone cliffs. Espagnac Ste Eulalie is an good village for a walk-around and St Sulpice has some interesting troglodyte buildings. Marcilhac sur Cele is only OK - walk by the Cele river next to the Abbey.

They have done a very good job of making Figeac** a tourist friendly town. There’s a walking itinerary in the Michelin Green Guide, and you can also obtain an excellent walking itinerary (in English) at the tourist office. The Tourist Office itinerary is much better than the Michelin one. The various sites are marked with placards along the way. Note the top floor “porches” around town which were used for drying laundry, storing wood, growing plants, etc. in medieval times. This is a beautiful town – we spent 1 ½ hrs walking around, following the itinerary we obtained from the tourist office. Almost every store in town was closed for lunch (not that great of a shopping town anyway), and most stores were closed on Monday (Sunday also). By contrast, we spent less than 30 minutes touring Cahors.

In '05, we drove from Cahors to Figeac following the Cele River, and back to Cahors following the Lot River. We thought that the Cele River was the more scenic of the two, although both are quite picturesque.

After visiting Figeac, head back to the Sarlat area. It should take you 2 hrs via the D802, and 2 1/4 hrs via the D80 which passes close to Rocamadour*** (no time for a visit at this point) and through Martel* (visit if you have the time - see below).

Stu Dudley

Thanks for the refresh Stu. I have your itinerary but it's been a while since I read it through.

About TGVs to Paris - many I think are Duplex trains - doubledeckers and when booking book a seat on the upper deck for far better views than from the sunken lower level.

>>book a seat on the upper deck for far better views than from the sunken lower level.<<

Better views perhaps - but you may have to haul your bags up narrow stairs. And then back down the stairs when it's time to get off the train - which isn't any fun, I guess, because we've always sat on the lower sunken level where I've never encountered any "sunken".

Stu Dudley

Am fairly sure the double deckers on the Toulouse to Paris run are all on the slow train.

By far the best value for me is the faster TGV route via Bordeaux--no change just a short stop in Bordeaux. The idtgv first class tickets are usually very good value.

I've never experienced any negative "sunken-ness" on a train in France, either, and we take French trains ALL the time.

Albi isn't falling into desuetude anymore than any French town and is always worth visiting. Our own nearest town, Le Bugue, has witnessed a complete killing off of all the small businesses at one end of town, which is now dead, but it hasn't killed the town, which has spread out over the bridge in another direction. If you've been around for a couple of decades and know the history of the town and have seen the passing of certain people and certain businesses it can be sad of course, but it's what happens in rural France, Le Business just moves on to other venues and continues. If it makes things less authentic for the tourists, at the end of the day most locals and mayors don't care.Why should they? At the core of most French town and villages, most local people are not first and foremost about making tourists' visits all hunky-dory.They are about,in our case, making sure that tir market, which has been going on every Tuesday since 1592, still goes on. You cannot replicate that in the US

On our first trip to the Dordogne some years ago, we rented a house in Molieres, a tiny never-finished bastide near Cadouin and Le Bugue, and the markets in Le Bugue and St. Cyprien were my introduction to that wonderful experience. (I also had another first in Cadouin--garlic soup. It sounded, um, unusual--until I tried it at the restaurant across from the church and loved it.)

Both of these towns were somewhat removed from the tourist havens of Sarlat, LRG, Beynac and Domme. They weren't crowded, and the stores existed to serve local residents.

St Cirq is right that these towns don't exist to fulfill tourists' fantasies. What I do wonder about is how people who live there really feel: do they shrug their shoulders and head for the hypermarche, or do they regret the changes?

It's not the same thing, I know, but in my corner of Manhattan, since the completion of the new Second Avenue subway, we're having an American version of the same phenomenon. A lot of the small, mom and pop shops are closing up and are being replaced by enormous drug chains like CVS--seems there's one on every corner; the little groceries with their ranks of fresh flowers outside are gone, but you can get your nails done at dozens of places in any two-block radius. And the smaller walkup apartment building are coming down and being replaced by glitzy forty-story condos, changing the neighborhood's profile in more ways than one. And I don't like it at all. This is a quiet neighborhood with people of all ages, and I fear that in five years it will be another Meatpacking district, with nothing but overpriced wine bars and designer boutiques.

At any rate, our itinerary now includes Albi and Toulouse--so thank you all.

<<What I do wonder about is how people who live there really feel: do they shrug their shoulders and head for the hypermarche, or do they regret the changes?>>

Both, I think, and it depends on your age. Many older people won't set foot in the Intermarché because of the prices and the crowds. All the tourists shop there, and young people walk there for lunch from the lycée. There's a sense of regret for when the whole town was thriving, but there's also a genuine acceptance of the conveniences of modernization. There's also a very forceful undercurrent of artisanship among locals that never seems to die: painters, sculpters, musicians, singers, weavers, silversmiths...they crop up all over and sometimes buy up the old abandoned places and turn them into ateliers. So all is not lost, it's just different.

>>> Many older people won't set foot in the Intermarché because of the prices and the crowds. All the tourists shop there<<

We are frequent tourists who spends 2 months in France almost every year, and we purchase food to cook meals and also "other" supplies. Up until about 5 years ago, we frequented the big Intermarches. Lately, we drive past the big Intermarche & shop at the smaller Carrefour Contact (or similar). The Contact is a much better experience, and we've always been able to purchase the stuff we need - even fresh fish. What's missing is the tires for our car and the heaps of other stuff no tourist would ever need. But I believe the tourists love these huge stores - reminds them of Walmart (there are no Walmarts near us in San Francisco). Once when we stayed overnight near the Toulouse airport, we wandered into a huge Intermarche (or similar) with 97 checkout stands.

I read something within the past 3 years which stated that these smaller Contact groceries are growing in number because more & more "people" prefer them over the big box stores.

Stu Dudley

How are prices between hypermarches and C Contact?

We'd probably be happy to shop at a Contact, but I've never seen one and we certainly don't have one anywhere near here that I know of.

There is a LeClerc that we go to once in a blue moon because it has a free change machine where you can get a store credit for the mountains of loose change one inevitably ends up with in France. It's so big the employees wear roller skates.

We do shop at Aldi and Lidl and sometimes LeaderPrice, which are much smaller than the Intermarché, but they are limited in what they offer, and sometimes it gets to be a chore going from store to store to fill in the shopping list items. We try to get almost all our staples from the outdoor markets on Tuesday and Saturday.

We used to shop them all, the big local outdoor market, Intermarché (least favorite but cheapest gazole), Leclerc and a Carrfour Contact which was open Sunday until 1:00, great to drop in after meeting friends for coffee. It had a professional butcher who would cut meat to order, indifferent bread but no problem as two boulangeries were within 100 metres.

The prices at C.C. were slightly higher by a few cents, not outrageous.

The local businesses that were still thriving are the boulangeries/patisseries, the optician, the newsagent, realtors, insurance agents, banks, beauticians, take-out pizza, restaurants, the casino and a thermal spa. As St cirq said, all there to service the locals and the annual, very serious, pétanque tournament. Clothes boutiques and art galleries come and go quite quickly.

This is Salies du Salat, HG, a small town of just under 2,000. "Worth" a drive-through? Well, I wouldn't go out of my way, although the market square has a gorgeous stand of plane trees which form a canopy in summer. A bit further east 30-40 minutes, are St. Lizier and St Girons in the Ariège, excellent Saturday market in St. G., lots of crafts.