Am I crazy? Complicated trip plan to Italy
 

What started as an idea for a short trip to Italy for my family of four (kids ages 2 and 6) next July has morphed into a much larger and more complex vacation as two of their grandparents (one on my side, one on my husband's) have said they'd like to join us for different stages of our trip. We're happy to have them along, but it makes for a more complicated plan since they would join us for different parts of the trip and have completely different interests. Grandpa likes nature, and that's it...he's shown zero interest in anything cultural whenever I've traveled with him. Grandma likes good food, poking around small towns, museums and just absorbing the local culture. Both are fortunately in good shape.

The trip would be in northern Italy. Our initial thoughts are to travel in the Dolomites and the lakes district (focusing on hiking and wildflowers) with Grandpa, and to have him depart and Grandma join us in the lakes district, and stay there with her (focusing on little towns and historical visits, and just hanging out), before heading to the Italian coast with her for the remainder of the trip.

Before I conduct much research into each potential leg of this trip, first I wanted to ask those who know the areas if I am completely crazy for considering such a trip. As both grandparents are getting older (early/mid 70s), we don't know how long we have to travel with them, and want to take advantage of this opportunity and their interest in joining us. But, I want the trip to be enjoyable for all, including the kids, so hikes will have to be short, nap times incorporated for the little one, and dinners will be early.

Tentatively, I thought the 4 of us could fly into Venice and spend 2 days or so seeing it and getting used to the 6 hour time difference, then have Grandpa join us and head to the Dolomites for a week, staying in one place to avoid having to change lodging. Then to the lakes for another week or so, switching grandparents part way through (which would mean one of us driving to Milan to drop off Grandpa and pick up Grandma at the airport). Then another week or so at the coast, though I haven't looked into details on it yet.

Thanks for any thoughts or advice (such as, "what are you thinking?!") that you may have. : )

Well Grandpa needs to get over jet lag too.

If he likes nature then Venice is good as so much of it washes up against place day in day out.

He might like the Po valley (a large delta) to the south of Venice with lots of wild life. Alt. as you say get into them-there hills.

Does Grandma want to see the lakes or would Verona, Padua seem more of her thing?

Not crazy, but I think you need some space in your accomodation to let people get away from each other

First of all, I'd spend more than 2 days in Venice unless you've been there before.

Assuming the grandfather flies into Venice (where you'd meet him after your initial days), why wouldn't you drop him there after the time in the Dolomites? Could the grandmother fly the same day into Venice and then out of whatever airport is closest at the end of her part of the trip with you?

The grandmother has no interest in Venice?

Which part of the "Italian coast" are you referring to?

I suspect it wouldn't be difficult to narrow down your search for locations to one, where you could rent an apartment for the duration, be convenient to 1 airport and also close to both nature and small towns to explore.

As has been noted above, the Veneto, including Venice itself, might be an excellent location to satisfy everyone. Day trips to towns for your mother and hiking opportunities for grandpa would be easy to get to. A 2 bedroom apartment would likely fill the bill and I think will be far better than hotel rooms and moving place to place.

You'll get lots of suggestions here for specific locations, nice towns near Venice (and the airport) and with a convenient train station. Padua, Verona, Vicenza, Lake Garda come to mind, or Venice itself if budget allows.

Staying in one place, in a comfortable apartment, will make what could be a complicated trip, quite uncomplicated.

Good point, Jean. I thought it would be closer to have Grandpa fly out of Milan than Venice if we're at the the Italian Lakes. The lakes appealed to us since both grandparents (and the rest of us!) should like them.

Grandma has been to Venice, and many other parts of Italy before, though I will ask if she wants to go to Verona, Padua, etc. as bilbo suggests.

We are completely open about where we go in northern Italy (just northern because central or southern will be too hot in July). My husband would most like to go to the Dolomites, though, so it would be nice to incorporate them if there are enough easy hikes there that a 6 year old can do.

The most critical issue is, are they capable of doing international flights, one at a time or as a couple? If not, none of join-in-the-middle options are relevant. The usual issue is layover, if any, in unfamiliar airports. Even if someone can accompany then at departure airport and you can pick them at in Italy, there are still many points they are on their own. I have taken my in-laws of that age, for domestic trips. Even that, it was a chore to make sure they have not forgotten crucial items. In their case, they completely forgot to bring their prescriptions. With international trips, they cannot forget passports and pack items so that critical items are packaged, TSA compliant, in their carry-on luggage.

That's a wee bit ageist, Greg.

Grandma and Grandpa, as I read it, aren't related so they are unlikely to travel together anyway. Can they manage it alone?

Grandma is an experienced traveler who has made multiple trips to Italy and presumably can make a connection in any of the airports from which one might fly on to Venice.

Grandpa likes nature and would enjoy the Dolomites, so I would guess the Old Boy could probably manage a connection even in Frankfurt. He may not even wear a Tilley hat and carry his passport and ticket in a plastic sleeve on a cord around his neck.

OK, nature is fine but do you absolutely HAVE to do any hikes at all to enjoy it? I gather just looking at the scenery isn't good enough and if not that's ok, just checking.

Are you saying that "Grandpa" is going to be a real PITA if he is there for the entire trip? Why does he have to leave in the middle?

And does this have to be in the Dolomites? Could it be in Switzerland?

I'm still wondering exactly where the big complication comes in, unless it's related to the personalities of the participants, as Dukey1 intimates.

Staying put for the duration solves many issues. Pick a place, there are lots of them in N. Italy that are easy to go to & from an airport, get an apartment, do day trips here and there. How is that so difficult?

Unless the real difficulty is unspoken. Maybe grandpa is of the mountain-conquering type and just any nice countryside won't do. In which case I'd let him have at it on his own.

I would probably pay to have Grandma picked up and delivered.

I don't consider the lakes or the Italian coast terribly interesting culturally, so I am wondering what Grandma is going to do to satisfy her interests. You can up the chances of her having a fascinating time if you pick a coastal shopping town other than a quaint, picturesque fishing village. Think about the livelier Rapallo or Chaivari rathar than the stage-set le Cinque Terre beauty spots. These towns have the additional advantage of being flat, which will be easier on you with our kids as well as Grandma. You might even cheat it to the Tuscan coast around Pietrasanta to provide easier access to cultural interest.

Although many 70 year olds can outpace people younger than them, it does seem that as people age, most of them have a harder time coping with heat. So I think one of the biggest adjustments you will need to make is to make sure you have air con everywhere.

Just reading some of the above posts, I would consider Venice in July with a todder and 2 seventy year olds (one of whom has 0 interest in art and history) something close to a death sentence.

The Dolomiti are spectacularly beautiful and cool at night and are a kids' paradise (do your kid like cows?) as well as a nature loving grand dad paradise. They are paradise period. The lakes are gorgeous, and more Italian in feeling. I like you plan overall. In July, Italians head to the mountains and the sea. It is lovely and fun, and the kids have a great time with their grandparents hiking and swimming and goofing off in the piazze.

Also, I can't resist adding that iI I just returned from dinner in a village on the Italian Riviera, and at 10pm at night, all the kids with their grandparents and parents were in the village piazza (where it is cool), with the kids kicking balls, riding bikes or fast asleep in strollers, while the parents and grandparents were yakking. There was a wedding in the local chruch earlier in the evening and some of the little girls had found the leftover wedding decorations --- ribbons, tulle and flowers -- and they were dressing themselves up as brides and getting hysterical with laughter.

This doesn't exist in many places outside Italy, and you don't see it in Venice or the other places where the piazze are overrun with foreign tourists. You don't see this traditional life, where multi-generations do their age-appropriate thing under a sky full of stars.

My mother came to Italy and wasn't interested in Venice (and I certainly would have taken her if she was). It is not a given that women like Venice. Many like the sea, the village, the feeling of Italy.

Anyway, I don't think your plan is crazy, and the last time I traveled with my mother, I was the one who came down with a bug and had to take to my bed while she gallavanted about, so forget about their ages and just address their interests (and pick places cool and flat for your little kids, who will are likely to be totally unimpressed with italy other than how good the cheese is).

Chiavari

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHFJoKGKImI

Rapallo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLvhLXitYh4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NB2xCG0VbTQ

and another good bet, Sestri Levante

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYnnrpaKSpU

I'm not stalking, just saving a little writing time.

<i><font color=#555555>"I don't consider the lakes or the Italian coast terribly interesting culturally, so I am wondering what Grandma is going to do to satisfy her interests."</font></i>

I would add, in certain heavy-tourist areas of Italy these days, good food is getting more challenging to find.

<i><font color=#555555>"I would consider Venice in July with a todder and 2 seventy year olds (one of whom has 0 interest in art and history) something close to a death sentence."</font></i>

Pantanal, you deserve wife/mother of the year if you pull this one off.

Unless your family is Greek or African, the Mediterranean sun in July is not safe for anyone. Global warming is all any Italian could talk about at Venice's Biennale opening this year. The 90º days feel like 110º, and every year sees more and more tourists drop to the ground from heatstroke.

I would warn the grandparents, talk them out of it, promise them a return trip at a safer time of year, and go do your thing and see what I'm talking about.

I hate to sound negative. Your intentions are wonderful, but unless you can afford resorts with a pool, the mix of people you are proposing for a trip to Italy in July will not be much fun for you or your immediate family. Too many people to think about, too many people requiring safety concerns, and too many people to please with activities.

Good luck!

"..too many people to please with activities."

The heat is one thing, but is it really Pantanal's job to entertain everyone? It may be and that's why she calls it complicated. But it was also my impression that there were only 2 children out of 6 family members and that all the others are presumed capable. Am I wrong or does responsibility fall to all participants to make sure that they themselves are pleased?

I realize there are those who assume all responsibility for others' well-being and if that's the case here, then NYC could be right that the endeavor is hopeless. But I'd really like the OP's take on this.

Pantanal, I think your plan sounds fine to me. As for it being hot, well yes it might be, but it makes a perfect excuse for a siesta followed by long leisurely evenings. And 70's is not old unless you have serious health issues, which you've said they don't. I think travelling with the grandparents is an opportunity not to be missed, especially if it's unlikely to be repeated. You don't have to be glued at the hip and do absolutely everything together. Personally, I would try to incorporate some travel by train, bus, boat as well as car. And I'd take a baby backpack carrier for your 2 year old which would be useful both when hiking and in Venice (you've probably thought of that already). Enjoy!

<i><font color=#555555>"does responsibility fall to all participants to make sure that they themselves are pleased?"</font></i>

Maybe in an ideal world. I know several couples who take trips together. I don't know anyone who equally shares responsibilities. Typically, there are designated leader(s) who do the hands-on planning, after they've listened to everyone's wishes. Inevitably, somebody has to take lead (even if they're not making it look like they're doing so), otherwise mayhem could ensue, engulf, and destroy. There's nothing worse than confusion when planning travel.

When we're talking families + in-laws, family dynamic matters. And of course every family is different. You know what they say about too many cooks. These situations are never easy, and they always seem to be hardest on the person who wrote the thread and asked, "Am I crazy?"

NYC, of course what you say is true, lecture received. But I was addressing the day-to-day activities. Meaning, if one good location was determined, OP rents apartment, participants turn up, then each may be responsible for themselves having a nice day. Children won't be stomping the mountains but grandpa can. Dad watches kids and buys ice cream while 2 adult women go shopping and cafe sitting. And on and on. I cannot imagine that it would otherwise be possible with so many disparate personalities and ideas about what constitutes a good time.

Which brings me back to wondering if the OP really thinks it's her job to take responsibility for those who are capable of doing what they want to do with a day in Italy. I'm asking because I'm unclear on that point. I'm not talking "ideal world", just common sense. That's why I asked the question of the one who asked us.

Thank you for all your advice. So many good points. Fortunately, I'm not worried about family dynamics, since my husband and I have traveled a lot with Grandpa and Grandma internationally (though before we had kids) and we all know what we're like as travel mates. The planning will fall to me; it always does, and I'm fine with that.

The main reason I think I may be crazy is dealing with moving from place to place and handling travel logistics while keeping 2 little kids happy. Also, in addition to the kids we'll have to help each grandparent: Grandpa with dealing with a foreign country and language (he's been pretty dependent on us in non English-speaking countries), and Grandma physically with carrying bags/luggage (though she's a good walker on flat paved areas). Neither grandparent is likely to go off on their own much. All fine, and things we've done before, but again, that was without kids.

I like the idea above of moving around as little as possible. The Dolomites are at the top of our list (though can't do with Grandma, as she isn't up to that much hiking), plus they should be cooler and no one in the group likes hot weather. So maybe we strike the coast from the list of possible places and stick to cooler locations. Would just focusing on the Dolomites and lakes make sense? I thought the lakes would appeal to everyone: good hikes, boat rides, beach time and different towns to explore.

But some of you above thought the lakes were over rated. Grandma and I loved Cinque Terre, though we did visit out of season when it wasn't crowded (unlike July), because there were easy walks/hikes and cute towns in one beautiful setting. Are there any other good all-in-one places like that that you could recommend?