Alps Provence Italian lakes good mix?
Jan 19th, 2009, 10:23 AM
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Alps Provence Italian lakes good mix?
We are a couple in our mid 50's/early 60's who love to travel and are in the very earliest stages of putting together a trip for mid August to early September. DH has always wanted to visit the Alps/Switzerland - no real focused plan, just a lifelong dream to see/drive through the Alps. I would prefer the Italian or French alps and would like to add in a change from the mountains (Provence and the Cote d'Azur sounds like just the ticket). We need to fly into and out of the same city as we're using credit card points for our air fares.
After some preliminary searching here on Fodor's (which has been instrumental in planning our 3 previous trips - Paris/Venice/Florence/Tuscany/Cinque Terre; Ireland; and Barcelona/Pyrenees/Rome/Sorrento - this is the first tentative plan. Admitting that I know a little about this area (but only a little...) we are totally open to suggestion. Here's my idea:
Fly into Geneva, maybe do some traveling in Switzerland but not too terribly far afield...then into France, possibly Annecy and Grenoble, on to Provence (suggestions? Avignon, Arles, Aix-en-Provence, Marseilles??) and ending in Nice/Cote d/Azur region.
At this point, since we'd be so close, I'd love to visit the Cinque Terre and/or Lucca again, but not totally indispensable.
Then on to one of the Italian lakes (Lake Como?), and ending up back in Geneva to fly home.
We usually take a little over 2 weeks when we travel in this way. We'd be open to a combination of rail passes/rental cars, depending on our need for a car. We are NOT tour people, typically, and prefer to drive on our own to take our time and see what we'd like to see, but also know that there are times that the train is simply the way to go.
I'm guessing this is far too much to fit into this time period, so this initial posting includes a plea for those you who know this area well to advise us about what to cut, where to spend more/less time, etc.
You'll also ask what we like - we are avid photographers, love to walk (but we both have to pace ourselves due to hip/back/knee issues that don't stop us but may slow us down a bit). We aren't sun worshippers but I sure wouldn't mind a bit of R & R by the water somewhere mixed in with the days of travel and sightseeing. DH enjoys seeing many new places but doesn't want to spend days in museums either. He was an avid biker in his day and we enjoyed visiting Foix a couple of years ago to see where the Tour comes through. More of the towns on the route would be a plus.
Thanks for your advice. You've never steered us wrong in the past!
After some preliminary searching here on Fodor's (which has been instrumental in planning our 3 previous trips - Paris/Venice/Florence/Tuscany/Cinque Terre; Ireland; and Barcelona/Pyrenees/Rome/Sorrento - this is the first tentative plan. Admitting that I know a little about this area (but only a little...) we are totally open to suggestion. Here's my idea:
Fly into Geneva, maybe do some traveling in Switzerland but not too terribly far afield...then into France, possibly Annecy and Grenoble, on to Provence (suggestions? Avignon, Arles, Aix-en-Provence, Marseilles??) and ending in Nice/Cote d/Azur region.
At this point, since we'd be so close, I'd love to visit the Cinque Terre and/or Lucca again, but not totally indispensable.
Then on to one of the Italian lakes (Lake Como?), and ending up back in Geneva to fly home.
We usually take a little over 2 weeks when we travel in this way. We'd be open to a combination of rail passes/rental cars, depending on our need for a car. We are NOT tour people, typically, and prefer to drive on our own to take our time and see what we'd like to see, but also know that there are times that the train is simply the way to go.
I'm guessing this is far too much to fit into this time period, so this initial posting includes a plea for those you who know this area well to advise us about what to cut, where to spend more/less time, etc.
You'll also ask what we like - we are avid photographers, love to walk (but we both have to pace ourselves due to hip/back/knee issues that don't stop us but may slow us down a bit). We aren't sun worshippers but I sure wouldn't mind a bit of R & R by the water somewhere mixed in with the days of travel and sightseeing. DH enjoys seeing many new places but doesn't want to spend days in museums either. He was an avid biker in his day and we enjoyed visiting Foix a couple of years ago to see where the Tour comes through. More of the towns on the route would be a plus.
Thanks for your advice. You've never steered us wrong in the past!
Jan 19th, 2009, 10:47 AM
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We did a trip quite similar to your intentions. It was for 3 weeks however.
We flew into Geneva and rented a car for 21 days. We were booked for 4 days at a B+B in the hills above Annecy. After one glorious day in Chamonix the weather turned and so we took off for Provence.
On the way back to Geneva we took a long leisurely drive through the French Alps. The 18 days in Provence were ideal.
I'd discourage you from adding the CT or The Italian Lakes since you are only planning on 2 weeks.
We flew into Geneva and rented a car for 21 days. We were booked for 4 days at a B+B in the hills above Annecy. After one glorious day in Chamonix the weather turned and so we took off for Provence.
On the way back to Geneva we took a long leisurely drive through the French Alps. The 18 days in Provence were ideal.
I'd discourage you from adding the CT or The Italian Lakes since you are only planning on 2 weeks.
Jan 19th, 2009, 12:33 PM
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Thanks, Tuck. Nothing like hearing from someone who's done it. I had never heard of Annecy till I began researching here. It sounds like Provence was the highlight of your trip. While that suits me fine, I know DH needs more Alps (mountain!) time than that...though am I confused? Are there Alps in Provence, or do the regions simply border one another?
Anyone else with their two cents to offer?
Anyone else with their two cents to offer?
Jan 19th, 2009, 01:19 PM
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We've travelled through the French Alps several times. Just this past June/July we spent 2 weeks on lake Annecy taking several day trips into the Alps. Then we spent 4 days staying in two different areas in the Swiss Alps. We've also taken a week to drive from Provence all the way up to Chamonix & Annecy through the middle of the Alps.
You can get into some nice pre-Alps terriroty near Provence. However, if you really want to visit serious Alps territory, I would concentrate on a path from 5 nights in Annecy & surrounds. Then on to 2-3 nights in Chamonix/Mt Blanc. Then into Switzerland through the Diablerets to Gstaad for 2 nights. Then circle north & west through Saanen, then work your way south then east in Switzerland to the Valley d'Anniviers & stay 2-3 night in the interesting village of Grimentz.
Then I would head into to France (not on the Mt Blanc tunnel - but south of there across the col du St Bernard) to the Val d'Isere staying in Bonneval. Then work your way west to St jean de Maurienne & Col de la Croix de Fer, Alpe d'Huez, then on to the lovely village of Briancon for 2 or 3 nights. Explore the various passes aroung Briancon. Then drive to Embrun & spend 2 night there exploring. Head south to Sisteron and into Provence if you want to spend time there.
Stu Dudley
You can get into some nice pre-Alps terriroty near Provence. However, if you really want to visit serious Alps territory, I would concentrate on a path from 5 nights in Annecy & surrounds. Then on to 2-3 nights in Chamonix/Mt Blanc. Then into Switzerland through the Diablerets to Gstaad for 2 nights. Then circle north & west through Saanen, then work your way south then east in Switzerland to the Valley d'Anniviers & stay 2-3 night in the interesting village of Grimentz.
Then I would head into to France (not on the Mt Blanc tunnel - but south of there across the col du St Bernard) to the Val d'Isere staying in Bonneval. Then work your way west to St jean de Maurienne & Col de la Croix de Fer, Alpe d'Huez, then on to the lovely village of Briancon for 2 or 3 nights. Explore the various passes aroung Briancon. Then drive to Embrun & spend 2 night there exploring. Head south to Sisteron and into Provence if you want to spend time there.
Stu Dudley
Jan 19th, 2009, 01:37 PM
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Stu, So great to see you here again. It was your advice (unless I'm misremembering, as GW would say...) that helped us plan a wonderful Languedoc leg of our trip in 07, that took us from Barcelona up through northern Spain/southern France and included Ceret, Castelnou, Limoux, Mirepoix, Foix, and back down to Girona. You are a font of valuable information!
So here we are, planning to visit a somewhat nearby vicinity, yet coming at it from the totally opposite direction. I hope to spend some time picking your brain as we begin to refine our choices. I love trip planning almost as much as taking the trip, I think.
Your in-depth Alps experience (choice #2) sounds fabulous. I'm tending to lean toward a more balanced mix of Alps and Provence myself, more like your Chamonix/Annecy/Provence trip, but I have to check in with my fellow traveller. Are you thinking that, if we did that, returning to Geneva via Lake Como or another Italian route is too much? I just thought it might make more sense to travel in a circle than to simply return via the same route. Thoughts?
So here we are, planning to visit a somewhat nearby vicinity, yet coming at it from the totally opposite direction. I hope to spend some time picking your brain as we begin to refine our choices. I love trip planning almost as much as taking the trip, I think.
Your in-depth Alps experience (choice #2) sounds fabulous. I'm tending to lean toward a more balanced mix of Alps and Provence myself, more like your Chamonix/Annecy/Provence trip, but I have to check in with my fellow traveller. Are you thinking that, if we did that, returning to Geneva via Lake Como or another Italian route is too much? I just thought it might make more sense to travel in a circle than to simply return via the same route. Thoughts?
Jan 19th, 2009, 01:42 PM
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We were counting on a longer stay in the Alps and would have had the weather allowed it. We got an extended forecast and it was not good. There's no sense to staying put if you can't enjoy the scenery.
Returning on a cloudless day, we drove from Saint-Rémy and reached the Alps at Mont-Dauphin for a picnic lunch. From there, we went into the Queyras Region and spent time in St-Veran - the highest village in the Alps. Then over the Col d'Izoard to Briançon and then the fabulous Col d'Galibier. We reached our B+B at sunset.
Do you have some good maps?
Returning on a cloudless day, we drove from Saint-Rémy and reached the Alps at Mont-Dauphin for a picnic lunch. From there, we went into the Queyras Region and spent time in St-Veran - the highest village in the Alps. Then over the Col d'Izoard to Briançon and then the fabulous Col d'Galibier. We reached our B+B at sunset.
Do you have some good maps?
Jan 19th, 2009, 02:40 PM
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Are you certain that you must depart from Geneva, and "open jaws" are not allowed?
Two weeks really isn't even close to enough time for an Alps drive and some time in Provence & Cote d'Azur. I would not even think about the Lake District or the Cinque Terre.
If you must depart from Geneva, I would stop the car traveling in Provence. There is a 3 hour no-train-change TGV that takes you directly from Avignon in Provence to Geneva. It departs at 4:45 & arrives at 7:45.
What you need to think about for a 2 weeks trip is where you want to spend most of your time.
As a start, I would spend:
- 2-3 nights in Annecy - lots of Alps day trips there. We were there for 2 weeks last year.
- 1-2 nights in Chamonix. How, here is the sticky part. As TuckH indicated, the weather can foul things up. Luckily for us, we had perfect weather & spent 1 night in Chamonix & took the lift up to the viewing platforms. The sights were breathtaking of Mt Blanc & surrounding Alps. Really remarkable. However, if the weather is bad, there would be little enjoyment. Chamonix itself isn't that interesting. If you are starting this trip in August, I would sure want to have hotel reservations for most of the trip - certainly Chamonix.
- 1 night in Bonneval in the Val d'Isere
- 1 night in Briancon
- 1 night in Embrun
- 1 night in Annot, and explore this section of the Alps. Lots of beautiful canyons.
- 4 nights in Nice. You can continue to explore the Alps from Nice, and/or visit all the cute villages, coast, etc. in the area.
- 4 nights in Provence - in the Luberon & take some more pre-Alps trips and/or explore the wonders of Provence.
- take the 4:45 TGV from Avignon to Geneva, & stay the last night in Geneva.
If I add up the days, it's 15 to 17 days.
You could do the Switzerland loop & skip the Nice area.
It was probable me who helped you with your Languedoc trip. I also have a 27 page provence & Corte D'Azur itinerary that describes the above suggested area from (and including) Annot through Provence. e-mail me at [email protected] if you want a copy.
Stu Dudley
Two weeks really isn't even close to enough time for an Alps drive and some time in Provence & Cote d'Azur. I would not even think about the Lake District or the Cinque Terre.
If you must depart from Geneva, I would stop the car traveling in Provence. There is a 3 hour no-train-change TGV that takes you directly from Avignon in Provence to Geneva. It departs at 4:45 & arrives at 7:45.
What you need to think about for a 2 weeks trip is where you want to spend most of your time.
As a start, I would spend:
- 2-3 nights in Annecy - lots of Alps day trips there. We were there for 2 weeks last year.
- 1-2 nights in Chamonix. How, here is the sticky part. As TuckH indicated, the weather can foul things up. Luckily for us, we had perfect weather & spent 1 night in Chamonix & took the lift up to the viewing platforms. The sights were breathtaking of Mt Blanc & surrounding Alps. Really remarkable. However, if the weather is bad, there would be little enjoyment. Chamonix itself isn't that interesting. If you are starting this trip in August, I would sure want to have hotel reservations for most of the trip - certainly Chamonix.
- 1 night in Bonneval in the Val d'Isere
- 1 night in Briancon
- 1 night in Embrun
- 1 night in Annot, and explore this section of the Alps. Lots of beautiful canyons.
- 4 nights in Nice. You can continue to explore the Alps from Nice, and/or visit all the cute villages, coast, etc. in the area.
- 4 nights in Provence - in the Luberon & take some more pre-Alps trips and/or explore the wonders of Provence.
- take the 4:45 TGV from Avignon to Geneva, & stay the last night in Geneva.
If I add up the days, it's 15 to 17 days.
You could do the Switzerland loop & skip the Nice area.
It was probable me who helped you with your Languedoc trip. I also have a 27 page provence & Corte D'Azur itinerary that describes the above suggested area from (and including) Annot through Provence. e-mail me at [email protected] if you want a copy.
Stu Dudley
Jan 19th, 2009, 10:29 PM
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Casey -
I think Stu's plan looks great. And taking the TGV back from Avignon to Geneva will save quite a bit of time. As long as you pick up your rental car in the "French" side of Geneva, you should be able to drop it off in Provence without any extra charges.
Also, getting to the Côte d'Azur end August is ideal. Weather should be perfect - water very swimmable - and crowds greatly thinned out...
-Kevin
I think Stu's plan looks great. And taking the TGV back from Avignon to Geneva will save quite a bit of time. As long as you pick up your rental car in the "French" side of Geneva, you should be able to drop it off in Provence without any extra charges.
Also, getting to the Côte d'Azur end August is ideal. Weather should be perfect - water very swimmable - and crowds greatly thinned out...
-Kevin
Jan 20th, 2009, 05:05 AM
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Just so you know -- and i'm not advocating this trip! -- I once flew to Milano, spent a few days on Lago Maggiore, took a train up to the Bernese Oberland, spent a few days there, took a train/bus combination to Lago di Como, and from there went to the Italian Riviera, near Genova (which is about 4 hours from Nice by train.) I did all this without driving.
Were I to do it over again, I would skip my time on Lago Maggiore and fly directly into Switzerland. I would pick up a car as soon as I could in Italy, and drive myself to the Lakes and the Italian Riviera. If I wanted to tack on the Cote d'Azur, I'd probably drive myself to San Remo, and get on a train. I'd fly out of Nice, probably.
But! But! If I wanted to go to Provence, I would only try to combine Provence and the Alps in a two week trip.
Since your husband has a life long dream to see/drive through the Alps, I'd be concerned about getting him into the Alpi he wants. Others may disagree, but I would think it matters a lot whether you choose the French Alps or the Swiss Alps.
Were I to do it over again, I would skip my time on Lago Maggiore and fly directly into Switzerland. I would pick up a car as soon as I could in Italy, and drive myself to the Lakes and the Italian Riviera. If I wanted to tack on the Cote d'Azur, I'd probably drive myself to San Remo, and get on a train. I'd fly out of Nice, probably.
But! But! If I wanted to go to Provence, I would only try to combine Provence and the Alps in a two week trip.
Since your husband has a life long dream to see/drive through the Alps, I'd be concerned about getting him into the Alpi he wants. Others may disagree, but I would think it matters a lot whether you choose the French Alps or the Swiss Alps.
Jan 20th, 2009, 05:32 AM
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Apart from the odd scenic railway, I can't see much value in trains on the route you're suggesting - or anything particularly tricky about the Alps and Provence.
If you can get an open jaw on your FF points, collect your hire car at the French side of Geneva airport, do whatever you want, then leave it at Nice. Though there are sometimes one-way drop charges within European couhntries, they're rare (and rarely substantial) - but they almost always get serious if you hire in one country and leave it in another. If you can't get an open jaw, it might make more sense to finish the holiday in Avignon, then drive back to Geneva (c 3 hrs) or leave the car in Lyons and get a train.
From Geneva, it's a pleasant 4-5 hr drive to Lago Maggiore or Lake Como. Personally, I'd start the trip there, and wouldn't think twice about an Italian jaunt on a 3 wk holiday. If you've only got 2, it really will be a squeeze to fit Italy in alolnmg with your plans for Switz and France.
If you can get an open jaw on your FF points, collect your hire car at the French side of Geneva airport, do whatever you want, then leave it at Nice. Though there are sometimes one-way drop charges within European couhntries, they're rare (and rarely substantial) - but they almost always get serious if you hire in one country and leave it in another. If you can't get an open jaw, it might make more sense to finish the holiday in Avignon, then drive back to Geneva (c 3 hrs) or leave the car in Lyons and get a train.
From Geneva, it's a pleasant 4-5 hr drive to Lago Maggiore or Lake Como. Personally, I'd start the trip there, and wouldn't think twice about an Italian jaunt on a 3 wk holiday. If you've only got 2, it really will be a squeeze to fit Italy in alolnmg with your plans for Switz and France.
