Airbnb Launches Media blitz...with Bird Houses...
 

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/16/bu...its-reach.html

Interesting story about airbnb - the entity that links folks wishing to rent out their residences or rooms in them to travelers - how they are launching their first real advertising blitz - featuring cozy bird houses.

I enjoy staying in B&bs in Europe and an keen to know about any experiences or recommendations Fodorites have in experiences with airbnb - any good ones you've seen. It says Paris and Barcelona are two of airbnb's biggest markets.

Pal; You can view a thread in process that starts with 'Frustrated'.

Perhaps someone can copy and paste to this thread.

http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...l-websites.cfm

Thanks - I see the 'frustration' but I guess will not throw the baby out with the bathwater until I hear a variety of reports and experiences - but thanks for that tip!

We just started using airbnb this past summer. Had a good experience in London and more recently in New Orleans.

In France, I would rely on Gîtes de France as a primary source, at least outside large cities.

Our experience with Airbnb as guests has been mixed. The first time we used it, a few years back, we got stung badly in Amsterdam. That was before Airbnb had a 24/7 hotline to resolve problems, and we lost some bucks and had to scramble for a place to stay on a Friday night.

My wife also had a bad experience more recently in Portland, Oregon. The listing was a fraud in which the renter tried to rent out a place he was renting while he was away. The person who was supposed to let DW in did not show up. When she did get in the place was completely unlivable. In the meantime, however, Airbnb hotline was quick to pay for a hotel room for the night while things got ironed out.

On the positive side, we have had great stays in all the other places we booked through Airbnb. That includes NYC, Portland, OR, (different place), Syracuse, NY, and Milan, Italy. We currently have a place booked in Paris for two weeks in May, in the 10th. I'll post how that went in my TR.

From the viewpoint of a host, I can't say enough good things about the site. We have been renting out our private guest room in the small Washington town of Anacortes for almost four years now, through Airbnb, without a single problem. Since we can screen and talk to our guests both before and after they book we have hosted only nice and trouble free people, without exception. Things started off slowly but, now that we have over 150 positive reviews, this Summer we were full over 50% of the time from May to November; a major factor in being able to afford Paris again this year.

You left out a part PalenQ.

"the entity that links folks wishing to rent out their residences or rooms in them to travelers -"

You should have added, 'legally or illegally.'
http://www.independenttraveler.com/t...cation-rentals

While there are many legal rentals to be found through third party sites like AirBnB et al, there are also many illegal rentals. What that should mean to the person looking at renting, is that they need to do their due diligence to insure the apartment/house they rent is a legal rental.

I'm not saying don't rent, I'm just saying be careful and do your homework. You don't want to end up somewhere you are not welcome.

"Its largest markets, for hosts and guests, are Paris, <b>Barcelona</b>, New York and San Francisco.
Well in Spain they may be in for a shock.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-tourists.html
http://www.02b.com/en/notices/2013/1...elona_6248.php
Licences are required and they are clamping down. Licences are in short supply.

I never gave much thought to private vacation rentals in the past. However, in the last few years, the number of rentals of this type has jumped dramatically. This has led to a rise in problems with it all over the world.

The internet has made it possible for third party websites like Airbnb (which only started in 2008) to provide a place for an owner of a property to advetise that property to travellers.

This is a travel forum and from a travellers perspective, these rentals may appeal to many people. However, there are 3 groups they do not appeal to. Governments who see money not being declared as income. The hotel industry who see a signifigant percentage of loss of business. Third and in my opinion most important, neighbours who live next to these properties being rented.

As travellers, we should not look at things only from a narrow perspective. How would you feel if the property next door to your home was rented out every week to different people? Perhaps, six 18-25 year olds planning to 'party hearty' for a week?

I happen to own a condo in the Cayman Islands. On my last stay there I had a conversation with the property manager who has been there about 15 years. He told me that last year for the first time, they had a problem with rentals.

The condo agreement states you you are entitled to have guests stay WITH you in your condo. It also states you are NOT allowed to rent it out. Not even for the fairly common 30 days or more a lot of places allow. No rentals, ever.

One new owner had chosen to ignore that rule. I believe the condo corporation is still working on wresting ownership from him through the courts.

In the meantime he had started renting it out by the week to tourists and the property manager had had the uncomfortable job on the half a dozen occassions last year that it happened, of having to go to the people renting and tell them they had until the following morning to leave or the police would be called.

Those people were no doubt 'innocent' victims of a fight between the owner and the condo board. But were they really 'innocent'? Whenever you enter into a contract with another person or business, it is YOUR job to do your due diligence and make sure that what you are doing is legal. Obviously, they had not done so.

Hawaii apparently has a huge problem with illegal rentals and instances of neighbours getting involved in physical confrontations with tourists are not unknown.

So it isn't just Spain ribeirasacra, it's everywhere. That nice Airbnb rental in Seattle by the nice old lady who doesn't pay income tax on the income, has no city license to rent (and so isn't complying with fire safety etc.) and doesn't give a darn what the neighbours think, may not be such a great deal as someone thinks it is.

Caveat emptor.

I see your point Dulci; valid concerns. As a matter of fact, the apartment we will be renting in Paris in May is in an apartment building such as would fit your description. I intend to write the owner to see if the rental is legal, seeing the fuss the city of Paris is now making about short term rentals, and whether I am going to have trouble with the other residents in the building.

The guest quarters we rent as Airbnb hosts are in our private home, so the aspects of short term rental you cite aren't applicable.

One point, I don't know how it works in Paris or Barcelona, but I'm sure the "nice old lady" in Seattle who rents her place through Airbnb certainly better pay taxes on her income. Airbnb reports our income to the IRS, and we dutifully give Uncle Sam his pound of flesh each year.

the Times article mentions New York City's laws that must be paid by hotels as a sumbling block for airbnb there:

The campaign also does not address legal challenges faced by Airbnb in New York, where many hosts are violating a 2010 state law that prohibits them from renting their apartment for fewer than 30 days if they are not present. Airbnb would like the state to revise the law to make short-term rentals legal. In exchange, it has proposed that renters pay the city’s hotel tax.

Actual B&B's where the owner is present have been around forever of course nukesafe. That is what you are doing and I don't think anyone is bothered by them. It is the absentee owners renting out their empty property that are the main problem.

>Perhaps, six 18-25 year olds planning to 'party hearty' for a week?<

Maybe in a vrbo condo on an island somewhere. There's major evidence that disturbances do not take place in Airbnb properties. Airbnb seems intent on building a following of like-minded people. I think their concept is unique and may have lasting power. Airbnb is no ordinary gateway to vacation rentals. They look like a revolution.

Well obviously you are a fan of Airbnb et al wesley but let me ask you this. Would you want people arriving every week to stay in the apartment or house next door to the one you live in?

When a place is purpose built as a vacation property then there is no reason to complain about any kind of tourists who end up there but when a place is intended to be residential then there is indeed reason to complain when people start showing up for a few days or afew weeks at a time.

If 12 owners in an 18 unit building are resident and the other 6 owners rent out weekly, just how happy do you think the 12 resident owners are likely to be? Regardless of how well behaved the tourists who rent might be, they will be disruptive.

Try telling me that when they arrive on a late flight and are hauling their luggage down the hallway and into the apartment at 2am. that they are going to tip toe.

Airbnb, is a business like any other. They have NO concern whatsover for the neighbours of the properties rented out by their clients. They're only concern is the people paying them, no one else.

Where a property is located is irrelevant. "Maybe in a vrbo condo on an island somewhere.", is what you wrote. Do you think there are not people who LIVE on that island somewhere who have the same rights as anyone else to their privacy or peace and quiet in their neighbourhood? Do you think that somehow if they live on an island or anywhere else that tourists wish to stay that they should expect to give up their right to privacy and a peaceful life?

Try looking at it as if YOU were an owner living next door to this vacation rental property in a normal residential building or neighbourhood wesleymarsh.

Airbnb, do NOT come and ask owners if they're OK with the next door apartment or house being rented out short term. Nor do they vet what kind of people that rent a place. If six 20 years olds want to rent all Airbnb and many of those owners who are renting ask is 'do you have the money?'

The revolution that is occuring is also a revolution by resident owners who quickly become annoyed with rentals.

http://www.venicenc.org/wp-content/u...tal-Report.pdf

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/...18994097238724

http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/201...-beach-gardens

http://www.denverncnews.com/?p=5250

http://www.fox4now.com/multimedia/vi...=1628738702001

http://www.santabarbaraview.com/vaca...ighbors636536/

In this one, note the remark, "The big surprise for us was when we tried to contact Airbnb (to complain)," said Thieme, a writer and editor. "The phone tree had no option remotely relating to people in our circumstance — neighbors." When they finally got through, "the first gentleman didn't seem too concerned about our problem."

http://seattletimes.com/html/travel/...sublets17.html

The list goes on and on wesley in any place you find these rentals. You can't build a hotel in a residential street but you can turn your house into a hotel. Sound right to you?

wesleymarsh, AirBnB properties most certainly do cause problems in non-tourist areas. Here in San Jose, there is a property in my neighborhood that has caused tremendous problems for neighbors. The house is considered an illegal BnB and the people that rent party and don't care about the neighbors at all because after all they're on vacation. The neighborhood association is trying valiantly to shut them down, and the owner is retaliating by threatening the nearest neighbors to the point where they're afraid to continue to complain.

well as they say don't throw the baby out with the bathwater!

Agreed PalenQ.

As I have said before, I am not against the private rental of a property necessarily. As long as it doesn't interfere with others enjoyment of their property I don't see a problem.

There are plenty of places where vacation condos are sold as such and it is clear that everyone there will not be a resident owner. Probably 90% of such properties are owned for the single purpose or renting them out for profit when the owner is not using them. Everyone understands that and everyone accepts that.

The issue arises when someone is renting a property in a primarily residential building or neighbourhood. The 'baby' isn't supposed to be in that bathwater to use your analogy.

What really annoys me about it all is the third party parasites like Airbnb et al who make money out of it with NO regard whatsover for the issues.

People using their website to find a place to rent do not realize that THEY are not Airbnb's customer. The person renting the property OUT is the customer.

What that means is Airbnb does not vet an owner to see if they are complying with the local law or having disputes with neighbours over their rentals. All Airbnb do (as advised by their lawyers to cover their ass) is say, 'we tell our owners they must comply locally'. Then they go ahead and take their money having made NO effort to ascertain if the owner is indeed complying with anything.

There is only ONE thing driving this on anyone participants part. That is MONEY. Whether it is the person renting it for a week; the owner renting too them; or Airbnb etc. Unfortunately, when money is involved a lot of people turn out to have what is called 'situational ethics' (in the bad sense of the term).

If I can save money or make money it overrules the rights of others. That's the bottom line in this story.

dulciusexsperis:

And I commiserate with you - I live in a condo and understand the problem and IF there was such problems coming from some absentee owner's unit I would sure make it very uncomfortable for the itinerant renters to live there - like every morning coming out to see their tires flat - they could complain to the owners and airbnb but who else (wear disguises and do it under cloak of darkness - if flattening tires don't work take it a notch higher - a few broken windows to get the message across - that is IF there is a problem as there is in yours - I would not automatically oppose it if there were no problems affecting me or my property value.

For me, it has little to nothing to do with money. I have paid as much for Airbnb rentals as I would have for a nice hotel in the same area. What I got was a wonderful sense of privacy in the Airbnb rentals, and more a feeling of home. I like feeling part of a neighborhood, sleeping late, making some tea, and letting DH go to the local bakery and bring back croissants, etc. On our last trip, we broke it up with two hotels to be spoiled a bit, and two apartment rentals for a more homey experience. We are very conscious of neighbors and what we liked about both places is they were nice and quiet. I do not think anyone would even have known we were there.

Maybe they were unusual, but the Airbnb hosts that I worked with (those I rented from and had to cancel last Spring, and the two others we finally used) had specific arrival and departure hours. None were late at night or early in the morning, so there was no possibility of coming in during the night with luggage making noise. Every host I worked with had capacity rules and were quite clear and specific about how many and what age they would accommodate.

As long as the guests were carefully vetted and they were considerate of us, the neighbors, I would have no problem with a neighbor renting their home to travelers. One good thing would be, the owner would have to keep the property up to a high standard.

BTW, why do I pay Airbnb a booking fee if I am not a customer? There are two fees, delineated in the bill. One is the rental cost (to the apartment owner) and the booking fee (charged to me by Airbnb).

I am paying the apartment owner for the use of the apartment, so am a customer of the host.

I am also paying Airbnb - for performing a service for me, so that would make me their customer also.

I don't think of myself as a fan of Airbnb. I simply saw the 3 owners of Airbnb interviewed by Charlie Rose and walked away from that interview impressed. They are trying to create something quite different from the competition and it looks like they will achieve more success.

MonicaRichards, bad apples exist in every opportunity. I accept that no system is perfect. While researching Airbnb, I noticed a few properties stood out as questionable. Some owners/managers advertise there and treat the property ad as though it's any other hosting site. So what happens next? Researchers look at the owner profile. They find out the property has a manager or the owner lives across town. Researchers then look at the reviews. I think the review system on Airbnb may be the main reason why this company is rising quickly. Owners/members have no control over their reviews. They can't touch them. Negative word gets out quickly and the owners have to deal with it immediately or else. If I find out the property that caught my attention is a party house with angry neighbors, I'm not staying there. The property is dead to me.

If my neighbor is a member of Airbnb and he rents his place to travelers like me, I would have no problem with his international guests. I probably would help them if they needed help. If my neighbor was a jerk, turning his residential property into a frat haven for vacationing alcoholics and encouraging the disruption of my neighborhood, I would be sure my complaining voice would be heard on every imaginable resource. Airbnb makes it possible for angry, unhappy voices to be heard.

The plural of 'anecdote' is not 'data'.

Sassafrass, of course there are people who rent who are no problem and of course there are owners who vet their renters. Of course there are also some of both who are a problem.

Writing about a good host or a good visitor is meaingless unless we are supposed to believe they are all good. The problem is that this market is becoming so big that it is impacting more and more people every day. So even if only 10% of them were a problem, it becomes a big number.

Like anything else where there is a buck to be made, there will always be people who look to exploit that. The original idea of Airbnb unlike other sites like VRBO for example was simple. If you own an apartment in New York, will be away for 2 weeks on business, why not rent it to a couple from Minnesota who would like to visit the 'Big Apple' for a week. Hey, that's a good idea, both win.

That was the original concept wesleymarsh but that is NO LONGER what is happening. Airbnb cannot control it and I am sure the owners know it has gone beyond their initial 'good intentions'.

Now, the exploiters come along and everything changes. They buy or rent 10 units or 10 houses and rent them out by the week to anyone with the money to pay. They don't CARE.
All this talk about making sure you don't rent to a frat party etc. is so much nonsense to them. It's about MONEY.

You suggest wesley that you would not rent from an owner who rents to frat parties. They would be 'dead to you'. What is that supposed to suggest? That no one else will rent from that owner either and so the problem will not exist? Frat parties will rent from that owner every week. They will look for the reviews that say, 'what a party house' and book eagerly. Don't be naive in thinking negative reviews of that kind mean the owner will lose business.

I would suggest a simple test. A house in a residential neighbourhood being rented through Airbnb results in 20 neighbours on the block all signing a letter to Airbnb saying they do not want such rentals on their block. What do you think Airbnb's response would be? To refuse to list the property? I think not. If it were that simple, there wouldn't be an issue making the news all over the world.

Airbnb, could easily issue a statement that says, 'we will not list a property anywhere that we are advised is an illegal rental or that a majority of neighbours are opposed to'.

Instead, Airbnb is fighting New York and other locations to allow what clearly is not welcome and/or legal.

PalenQ, I don't have a problem with my condo. None have been allowed to stay more than 1 night. I wasn't complaining about it happening from my perspective but giving an example of how it could affect a person renting without determining if the owner could legally rent to them.

Sassafrass, somewhat off topic but re who is the customer, I spent all my working life involved in sales & marketing. Any good salesman knows s/he has only ONE customer. If you buy a new car battery from your local garage, you are the customer of the garage. The battery company's customer is the garage. Sure the battery company provides a warranty to you and they receive money from you through the garage but make no mistake about who it is the battery company sees as their customer. It isn't YOU. It doesn't matter if you pay the battery company and they give a percentage to the garage or if you pay the garage and they give a percentage to the battery company. There is only ONE customer for each of them.

We used airbnb twice this summer, once in Florence, Italy and one in Paris. Our experience in Florence was excellent, although I did wish that I had looked more closely at the map to see that "close to centro historico" was not the same thing as "close to the center of the centro historico," but that was definitely my failure to do my research.

Our experience in Paris was not so good, and we ended up giving up the place, losing our deposit and paying for a hotel instead. I won't go into details, but I felt that airbnb was definitely there to support the person who is renting out the unit, not the person who is staying in it.

What's up with New York and AirBnb? The majority of renters in New York City will be upmarket, sophisticated Europeans who know to behave and just want to have a different experience and save some money on hotel bills.

What's up with asking what's up MaisonPlague?

Have you read the previous comments here? I think the downsides have been pretty clearly explained. Then there is the fact that New York has a law against rentals of less than 30 days. Is there a part of 'illegal' that you don't understand?

Even if the 'majority of renters in NYC will be upmarket, sophisticated Europeans who know how to behave', what do you suggest people who live next door to the place being rented to the minority who are not 'upmarket, sophisticated Europeans who know how to behave', do?

You got one thing right MaisonPlague when you wrote, 'save some money on hotel bills.' It's about money, with no regard for those who have to live next to these rentals. As it is about money, selfish is the word that comes into play. Concern for others goes out the window.

No it's about a law in NY that many consider unfair and thus break it - no other community that I know of has that law - what is European cities had that law - no British B&Bs - at least classical ones where folks rent out spare rooms.

How come only New York has problems with Airbnb renters then? Seems there is a lot of paranoid people there about the folks next door. New York does have some funny old laws! Folks in Paris, London, Berlin etc seem to have no problems at all with the concept of Airbnb. Have you looked at Airbnb;s website at all? You will see that as a guest even one negative review from an apartment owner will mean that nobody else will ever rent to you again. As for saving money, well many people have better things to spend their cash on in New York than that city's shocking priced hotel rooms. You can still be poor and educated and well-behaved you know!!

I always thought the New York City law against short term rentals was simply because of pressure of the NYC hotels who want to limit alternatives to their outrageously priced accommodations. A straightforward business tactic of keeping the supply low and the price high; which works as long as you have City Hall in your pocket.

Of course the legendary NYC feeling of "entitlement" to low cost/rent controlled housing at the expense of the tax base and the rights of property owner' rights makes the apartment dwellers froth at the mouth when "outsiders" dare to intrude.

Nukesafe what I like about AirBnB is that it is pretty self-regulating - it you don't play the game and stick to the rules either as a apartment owner or a renter then you will be not be allowed to work or rent from Airbnb. It seems to work pretty well elsewhere in the world. It is a shame there are issues in New York.

<i> Folks in Paris, London, Berlin etc seem to have no problems at all with the concept of Airbnb. </i>

Actually Paris made an attempt at cracking down on short term (tourist) rentals because it is felt that it takes housing away from the long-term rental pool.

Then there is the fact that New York has a law against rentals of less than 30 days. Is there a part of 'illegal' that you don't understand?>

Have you ever crossed a deserted street in spite of it being 'illegal' (thinking it is in NYC as in most cities) - of course yes...enough said.

Look, some of you need to realize that there are not just 2 parties involved in this issue. Or if you realize it, stop trying to be obtuse and face up to it.

I have no problem with anyone trying to make or save a little money. As long as it is not done to the detriment of the innocent public.

Nor do I have a problem with someone renting a room in their home while they themselves are resident. That's called a B&B PalenQ, and NYC does allow that legally.

But when someone invests in a house or apartment in a residential town/building, with the sole intention of renting that property out by the day or week, without regard to how it might impact those living around that property, that's stepping over the line. That's why cities have zoning laws to regulate what kind of business can and cannot be opened in a given area.

Every comment in favour of Airbnb et al. comes from the point of view of an owner or a renter. They are NOT the only people affected. Now TRY to deny that or justify that with flip commments like 'walking across a street'. These lawbreakers are NOT walking across a DESERTED street.

If you own and LIVE in a house/apartment that is zoned residential, you have a RIGHT to expect certain things. One of those is not to have people renting out the property next door by the night.

If you could step out of your 'as an owner' shoes or 'as a renter' shoes, try thinking about it as if you were wearing 'a neighbours' shoes, you'd find it a very different perspective indeed.

All of this has already been said here MaisonPlague and I'll ask again if you have read the other comments and looked at some of the links provided. Clearly, this issue is not just about NYC. There are issues popping up all over the world, including Hawaii, Paris, Rome, Seattle, Los Angeles, etc. etc. etc.

The problem is that while the original idea of someone going to be away from home for a few weeks and renting out while they were away was fine when that is only going to happen once or twice a year, that idea has been rapidly overtaken by speculators.

One of the curses of the internet is that something can now explode in size, in a very short time. What's also one of the curses of the internet is that exploiters can jump on something hot very quickly and EXPLOIT what was perhaps originally a decent concept. Airbnb did NOT start out to advertise for landlords of permanently vacant properties for rent.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolog...g-website.html

What Airbnb (and other websites) have done is provide a marketplace not only for reasonable people looking to make a few dollars or save a few dollars but for EXPLOITERS to find a way to sell their nightly rentals all year round. They are doing that to the detriment of those living around those properties and they are doing it KNOWINGLY.

Justify that.

Pull out, digger. The dogs are pissing on your swag.

Hey - you're the Improviser!

Welcome back - we will talk soon!

That's called a B&B PalenQ, and NYC does allow that legally.>

OK - that makes it a little better - I thought that was illegal as well in NYC and I can see your point in renting out units the owner does not live in or when they are away - but so so many cities around the world have found little problem with that -

WHY IS NYC SO SO DARN SPECIAL? What is the difference with New Yorkers from folks in so so many cities that do not seemingly have a problem with it.

I hope airbnb scrutinizes complaints and bans places where there are problems from being on their data base - ditto for renters and it seemingly does.

So do not throw the baby out with the bathwater - just clean up the bath water.

Well that would be fine if it were likely to happen PalenQ.

First, NYC is not 'special'. As already noted, the issue is coming up in more and more cities including Paris, Rome, Seattle, Los Angeles. It is however Airbnb's largest single market and in fact has 3 times as many bookings as their second largest which is Paris.

You have to consider as I tried to communicate, that this is growing exponentially. Airbnb alone now takes a booking every 2 SECONDS, 24/7.

You also have to consider that Airbnb is no longer under the sole command of the two guys that started it. They have multi-millions of dollars that have now been invested into their company and they have to answer to those investors.

Airbnb (and the others) are a business like any other. As I tried to explain to Sassafrass, their customer is the property owner. It made big news when they announced they were providing $1 million insurance for the owners after a story made headlines about someone's apartment being trashed by a renter.

So Airbnb covered their customer, the owner. They did not announce any insurance for the person renting. They did not announce any insurance for neighbours who ended up with someone disruptive next door.

They are quick to put a bad renter on their 'black list'. They are extremely slow to put an owner on such a list. They aren't even interested in hearing from a neighbour with a complaint.

No doubt, the majority of those who want to rent do not intend to bother anyone. No doubt, many owners are renting a room like a B&B or only occassionally when they themselves are away from their property. But there is a percentage that are in it only for the money and as full time businesses.

When you start booking every 2 seconds, that percentage however small starts to become a very large number. That is why there is an increasing number of complaints about this kind of rental.

It's not a case of throwing out the baby with the bath water. It's a case of the ogre has got in the bath with the baby.

Well put!