wkcape

Just returned from 11 days in Italy, or I should say 10 days in Italy and 1 day in France, as we missed our connecting flight in Paris.

Please do not believe - Delta, Expedia, or Air France when they tell you that 45 minutes is "more than enough" time to make your connecting flight!

The buses to take you to your flight leave 30 minutes before the plane takes off. Despite all the reassurances from airline staff that we had plenty of time, and that the plane would wait, we didn't!

It took only 15 minutes to make it off one plane and to the check in desk for the next flight, but we were told that 30 minutes is too late to make the plane!

We had to come back the next day for the next flight out. Air France did pay for our hotel, but refused to work with us in trying to get us on another carrier so that we could get back to the states!

Just a word of warning!

111op

Sorry to hear, wkcape. A while back I posted a story about missing my Paris to Berlin flight. Air France made me pay for the fare difference -- this wasn't a connection. They also argued that they needed thirty minutes (even though I had no bags to check at all and just a carry on).

Fodorites were unsympathetic in my situation, but I was pretty upset about the whole thing (not about the lack of sympathy, but about Air France). I won't bother rehashing the whole story.

The problem is that the policy is not strictly observed. On my return flight from Berlin to Paris, they were checking in passengers with less than half an hour to spare.

So, yes, people should be warned about the possibilities of missing connections -- and arrive at airports early.

These days I try to avoid Air France. Ironically I may have to use them again for an upcoming trip. We'll see. It's just difficult to boycott an airline when there're many other constraints that I need to work with.

nicksgirl88

We have a short connection time with US Airways arriving in Munich at 10:30 am and making a connection on Lufthansa at 11:20 am to Bern. Anyone have a problem with these airlines? We also will only have carry ons, but are a little concerned about getting thru passport control and customs in time.

111op

Actually perhaps wkcape and others can shed light on this -- aren't you checked through to your final destination and issued boarding passes? If you only have carry-ons, can't you just move to the connecting flight?

In my case, I wasn't connecting, but I was told that I had to be checked in at least thirty minutes prior. So the situation was a little different.

Grasshopper

The problem with these short connections is that they presume your flight is on time. I had a 2 hour connection in Paris this month that was reduced to a 45 min. connection when my flight from JFK was late. The bus from one terminal to the next was fine, I boarded on the plane, not that little shuttle bus, and made it just in time.... but my luggage didn't.

nicksgirl88

So hopefully our traveling light with no checked luggage will help out in this case!

sera

I concur. I also made the mistake with AF a couple of years ago of being booked on their last flight of the day to JFK. So when the connecting flight was late, the whole schedule was shot to h*ll.

nrwayne

Although it may appear overly pessimistic to plan based on a worst case scenario, doing so will be less costly and less painful. Even if you travel with a carryon and nothing more, your exposure to delayed arrival or problems with passport control will often result in a missed connection. The airlines routinely misinform people and talk in terms of "legal connections", which in Plain English means that if you pray fervently and everything goes right you have a longshot chance of making your connection. Don't believe them. Most reservations clerks have no idea of what's involved in getting from gate to gate, much less terminal to terminal, or heaven forbid airport to airport. Try making a connection at Atlanta in less than 45 minutes and you can be in for a serious challenge. Even better, Gatwick to Heathrow during rush how. Figure 4 to 5 hours, not the silly numbers the reservations people will give you. For any connections, do your research and err on the side of conservatism. You'll be a lot happier that you did.

nicksgirl88

We've already told our family in Switzerland that it's highly possible we'll miss this connection. They're halfway expecting a call from us to let them know we'll just be on the next flight out! Maybe by some strange twist, our flight from Philadelphia may actually arrive in Munich early....

Singletail

To answer 111op's question: being in possession of a boarding pass, like a ticket, whether your luggage is checked through or not, does NOT guarantee anything UNLESS you arrive at the departure gate within a certain airline-specified timeframe. And yes, they have protected themselves quite well with boilerplate language that specifies this.

I think it is always wise to ask about connection times when booking, if possible, and then building in your own time cushion if possible. Unfortunately, when you book on websites or through engines such as Expedia this isn't always easy, sometimes it raises the price, etc.

ingrid

Hi Nicksgirl:
I always fly into Frankfurt, then connect to Basel. Now, I'm travelling on a European passport, but they don't check passports or customs because you're never entering Germany but stay in the transit terminal. So far, haven't missed a connection (that's from United to Lufthansa with about one hourbetween flights).
With respect to AF: My parents have always had someone meeting them at the gate for the flight from IAD to Paris and then driving them to their connecting flight to Basel (also on AF).

111op

Really? I would have thought that they would make an effort to wait for you if you're checked in -- of course, nothing is guaranteed.

Also I get the impression that the US airlines are willing to accommodate late passengers (certainly, when compared to my experience with Air France). I've had many situations when I arrive at airports an hour and a half or two hours in advance, and because lines are too long, the flights that are about to depart have priority. I've benefited from this sort of treatment.

I've heard of 10 to 20 minutes as a rule for arrival at a gate. Not sure if that's changed. But frequently they're still boarding passengers up to 10 to 20 minutes before departure anyway. Is this something they can really enforce? It seems to me that they'll frequently make an annoucement for passengers who've not yet made it to the gate when the plane is about to leave.

Of course, the problem is that if there's a problem, it's never the airline's. That's what makes this all frustrating.

walsung

I have found that you need at least 2 hours to make a connection at CDG in Paris. I have taken Delta to Europe several times, and always had to make a connection at CDG. We NEVER made our connecting flight. The time it takes to get off the plane, get on a bus, get through immigration, get your bags, and then get to the new gate takes forever.

The last time this happened, we were on a Delta flight from Atlanta with an Air France connection in Paris. We missed our connection (as ususal) and I tried to get on the next Air France flight.

Well... the Air France ticket agent gave us such a hard time I wanted to slug him. He was giving me a hard time for missing the connection saying it was my fault. I explained to him that the plane had mechanical problems in Atlanta, which delayed our departure, then I spent over 1 1/2 hours trying to get out off the plane, through immigration .. etc in CDG. He still didn't care. Eventually we got on another connecting flight, but lost almost the entire day.

We are going to Italy in June. I refused to fly to CDG and connect from there to Venice. I ended up booking a connecting flight in NY JFK with a direct flight to Venice.

I avoid CDG like the plague. I hate that airport.

111op

I've never connected in CDG -- but I may this time around. It's that bad, really? 1.5 hours aren't enough -- that's what Orbitz is showing for some of the flights? What's this stuff about bus shuttles, etc., that I hear?

The problem is that I've to make two connections. I could choose another flight that connects in Milan, but then I'll have less time in Athens. (I'm planning to fly on to Mykonos.)

Oh dear.

Brian_in_Charlotte

I'm with you. CDG is the worst airport I have ever used for connections.

socialworker

This happened to us on an Air France flt that was Rome-Paris-USA. The flt was delayed on the ground in Rome and we had about 15 people on our flt that were all booked on the same connecting AF flt, so we were sure they would hold the plane. They did not, and we only missed it by a few minutes. I was never able to understand why they did not wait b/c it would have made it a lot easier for them too--not to have to rebook so many people. Our group of 3 who had bought tkts directly from AF were put on a later flt the same day. I noticed that another family group who had bought their tkts thru Expedia had to spend the night and go out the next day. Maybe the huge new terminal that just opened at CDG will reduce the # of bus trips necessary to change planes, thus cutting down on all the "horror stories".

Grasshopper

Actually, I thought CDG wasn't so bad at all. (JFK, on the other hand is a nightmare!) When you get off the plane, immediately get directions from the ground crew. They will point you in the right direction. In my case, I went downstairs to a desk where they gave me a boarding pass and had me wait for a shuttle bus to the next terminal. It took just minutes. The shuttle is still within the security zone so you only briefly pass through an easy passport check and security check at the new terminal.

At CDG you will frequently get on a shuttle bus at the gate which takes you out to your plane which is further out on the tarmac. That process requires more boarding time.

It seems like the airline could wait a few minutes for late arrivals... but on the other hand, if you're on the plane waiting to take off, and likely have a connection of your own, how long do you want to sit there waiting for late folks? You gotta draw a line in the sand somewhere.

BTilke

Actually, PHL can be even worse if you're connecting from an international flight to a domestic one. They have some of the worst people handling skills around.
I arrived from Paris with a connection to Orlando and even though I had TWO HOURS between flights, I still didn't make it, nor did dozens of people behind me in line.
Several full international flights arrived in PHL at their regularly scheduled times (none late), but PHL only had four people in passport control to handle the hundreds of passengers who arrived at the same time. It took me well over an hour just to get through passport control and as I raced to terminal B, they had only ONE security x-ray machine in operation with a HUGE line of people.
Much worse than any experience I've ever had at CDG.
That said, 45 minutes, even an hour, is not enough time between flights these days. 90 minutes would be best, if not more.
Along the same lines, do not accept any *train* connections in Germany with less than 15 minutes between them. I have booked train tickets on the bahn.de web site that gave as little as 4 minutes between trains. Having learned from repeated rides on late German trains, anything less than 15 minutes is a crap shoot. I ignore DB's suggested itinerary and check it point-to-point. Only Switzerland has trains that really run on time.

nicksgirl88

Hi Ingrid - thanks for the input. We usually fly from NY directly to Zurich, but this time decided to fly into Bern which is closer to my inlaws home in Biel. Hopefully we can make that connection, but if not, we've already decided not to stress about it. We'll get there!

Sally

I'll never forget the time our Air France plane arrived at CDG on time, but had to wait in line for half an hour before it could unload the passengers at the gate! We , of course, ran like everything, only to be told that it was 25 minutes before our next flight left, and that was "too late" for us to board! They would not help us rebook on another airline's flight. Their next flights were full, so we sat for eight hours , in full jet lag, finally arriving in Venice at 11: 30 pm! Even though I had called our hotel, telling them we would be late and to please hold our room, they had given it away to some earlier arrival. Not a good beginning for our vacation! Fortunately the owner of the hotel found us a room at another (less desirable) hotel.