After the rioting is over, do you think France will boost tourism advertisements?
 

After the hoof-and-mouth scare in England tourism dropped and then there was a tourism push. Same for other places around the world.

After a landslide on I-40 in western NC closing I-40 through the NC and Tenn. mountains, tourism to Asheville (east of the landslide) droppe and the Asheville, NC tourism department started sponsoring the local (Raleigh, NC area) traffic reports. The traffic reporter would give the local conditions and end with "and I-40 is clear to Asheville"

Do you expect the same with Paris, and what type of ad do you see?

By the way, I'm not trying to downplay a serious situation. It's a horrible thing going on there, and I hope it ends soon. And I hope the Paris or France government(s) can figure out a solution to the problems.

But a drop in tourist revenue for a popular destination like Paris, is a big dent in the local government revenue. I'm sure the money from tourism helps to pay for certain items the local like and don't have to pay for themselves (sort of like the tourist taxes in the USA on hotel rooms and rental cars to pay for sports arenas and such).

Aren't you rather begging a pretty crucial question?

France gets tourists from all over the world. Most of them from countries that don't go into conniptions at a few riots in suburbs no-one would dver dream of going near anyway. Or, however tragic, at fewer murders in the past ten days in a country of 60 million than Louisville Kentucky (pop: one per cent of France) achieves in a week.

I've not encountered a single Christmas shopping trip to Calais that anyone's even thinking of cancelling. Or anyone's bithday treat Saturday lunch in Lyon. Or a family Christmas party in the newly-acquired Loire cottage. No-one's putting off meetings in Marseille or avoiding trade shows in Paris.

No-one's re-routing their trans-Europe lorries to avoid France - even though they normally have to do that once a year when the bloody routiers blockade the motorways or the sailors close the ferries.

Grown-ups realise that poor, male adolescents with a grievance riot. Anywhere at any time. And most visitors to France (give or take the odd English stag party) are grown up about these matters. They'll even visit Louisville, at least when its parody of real horse racing is on.

I doubt French tourism will suffer a jot or tittle. And if it does, we'll all be on the Eurostar the following morning to snap up those cheap lunches.

flanneruk, you're much more Polyanna than the French authorities. Over lunch just now, I was watching on CNN about the French "government" concerned with the effects the riots will have on tourism. There have now been riots in the past 2 weeks in 220 French cities -- that's hardly anything to ignore. To think it won't mean much to tourism is simply sticking one's head in the sand.

Ooops. I shouldn't have said "will have" -- the bottom line is that they were saying it is already negatively impacting tourism.

Flanneruk, glad you feel that way. But we here at this site are not the casual traveler.

Think about the young couple planning their honeymoon for Paris in April (ah, romance) and now all they see of Paris now is riots. Couple goes to plan B: Caribbean, Italy, Myrtle Beach, etc.

A feeling of safety is important to many on their vacations. Americans don't get as much vacation time as most countries, so we have to plan accordingly. If there are riots, strike, strife, civil wars, disease threats, many Americans will plan to use their limited vacation time in a safer place.

Paris and France will need to lure people back with a feeling of safety and security.

Americans account for less than 10 % of tourists in France. We are used to seeing them come in larger or lower numbers, for legitimate (weakness of the dollar, bad economy in the US) or silly (French bashing in the press and government) reasons. We'll get over it, they always come back anyway. Europeans make the bulk of tourism here, and they don't turn to CNN for accurate info, they know that you can't transpose the whole American rioting situation wholesale to a European country, where weapons are not easily used/possessed, where disenfranchised people live OUT of the city centers, and not INSIDE. By 2010, the Chinese will outnumber the Americans as tourists in France.

wow Art. France gets Chinese as tourists in those numbers? I thought the Chinese were moving there. I did not know they were touring there in large numbers, interesting.

Art, do you live in Paris?

Always good to get the word of a local.

And, if I could guess 10 years into the future, I'm make better investments.

Yes, let us continue to ascribe all the problems in France to a few "poor male adolescents" as we continue our shopping trips, etc. After all, we really don't want to confront what might the much deeper and uglier issues now do we?

flanneruk your statment of "don't go into conniptions at a few riots in suburbs" made you sound like you have not read the paper or watched the news. You must be kidding. Wake up.

ncgirl, I have been saying that I too understand concern by tourists about visiting France, but to change a honeymoon from Paris to Myrtle Beach would take a whole lot more than what's going on now! In fact, I think Paris would have to burn to the ground before I would make THAT decision!!!

Yes, I am a proud local!
Actually, the future (granted, ncgirll, predictions are... predictions, but the trend is impressive though) wave of Chinese tourists will hit all major tourist destinations, since you know that from now on they don't need the pretext of a business trip to travel abroad and will be allowed by their government to go on "normal" pleasure holidays. So expect to see a lot in the US too...

This is from Barb of L'Atelier Vertof

http://frenchgardening.com I asked her to addres the problem as she sees it.

with her permission to cut and paste.
While I usually steer clear of anything that smells like an editorial in these pages, enough of you, my readers, have written expressing a desire to know my perspective on the civil strife that is dominating the worldwide news of France these days. So rather than waxing rhapsodic about some detail or other of life here, I'll try tackle this difficult subject. At least I hope I can shed some light on some of the pertinent background.

First, let me say to those of you have expressed concern for my safety, thank you--but I am not at risk. Let me also admit that I live a privileged life. I am in Paris' 17th arrondissement, practically next door to Parc Monceau--a very quiet neighborhood. However, I often walk through very diverse parts of Paris, and in no way would the current events make me change my course. Tomorrow morning I will take the metro to an appointment with my rheumatologist, in the northeast suburbs. I am not in the least worried.

If you've never lived here, it's hard to imagine just how safe a city this is. We have an alarm system on our apartment, for instance, but it's just a system that makes a big noise if a burglar would ever break in when we're not here. It is not a system we could turn on, even if we wanted to, while we are inside the apartment. A friend visiting from the U.S. commented on her surprise that the alarm wasn't armed when we were inside. Denis and I looked at each other, each seeing question marks floating in cartoon balloons over the other's head. The idea had never occurred to us.

Of course non-hunting guns of every kind are against the law here. And a perusal of French films, as compared to American films, will quickly show you that the culture of violence as we Americans know it doesn't exist here. Even the suburbs where the present altercations are occurring are not anywhere near as keyed up nor as burned out (poor choice of metaphor) as New York or L.A. ghettos. Notwithstanding, the recent events have been violent--but primarily that violence has been directed against property and not people.



The youths burning vehicles and having altercations with police are mainly the children of immigrants from Africa--primarily the north, but also sub-Saharan. They live in the grim suburbs surrounding the shining city of Paris like a sullen halo. There is absolutely no doubt that these are troubled neighborhoods, with desolate housing projects and severe unemployment. At first glance it is easy to surmise that the current unrest is rightly due to lack of opportunity and racial discrimination.

But as I see it, the problem is much more complex than it appears, especially as interpreted in the media. Of course, there is racism in France, as there is, unhappily, virtually everywhere. France has a very different approach to racial issues than the U.S., and it's an approach that is often difficult or impossible to fathom for the nonFrench. Here in France, as an immigrant, you are expected to 'become French.' The official attitude is that, if you come here, it is to become part of the French nation.

Thus, while culturally France celebrates cultural diversity more than any country I know, when it comes to matters of state, everyone is French. There are, amazingly to an American mind, no statistics available for example on the number of citizens of African descent because it is forbidden to demand race or ethnic origin on any official document. To do so, from the French point of view (which it must be recalled was influenced by the horrors of the Second World War), would create the possibility of discrimination. Ironically, France strives more to "melt" people of differing cultures among its citizenry than the U.S., which, while calling itself the melting pot, in fact encourages ethnic groups to remain unmelted.



Of course, this policy doesn't mean that racism doesn't exist here. Many would claim that "Frenchness" just gets pushed down to the level of the unsaid but understood. Hence all the discussion in the newspapers of how hard it is to get ahead if your name is Mahmoud instead of Jean-Pierre. My personal impression, having now lived here for 5 years, is that there is markedly more interracial ease here than in the U.S. Racial strata seem much more mixed up--at least within Paris proper--than I am used to seeing in the U.S.

France is also a staunchly secular country. This stance is at the heart of the famous "head scarf" ban. Ostentious signs of Christianity are also banned in public schools. You can agree or disagree, but perhaps, in light of the fact that France is home to several million Muslims, the growth of Islamic extremism on the one hand and Christian extremism on the other--maybe secularization isn't such a bad thing!

France has long accepted large numbers of immigrants (of which I am one!), historically from its African colonies. Now, with membership in the EU growing, allowing more or less free movement of citizens among member countries, immigrant populations have been swelling even further.

We now arrive at what I see as the crux of the problem with France being a country of social entitlements unimaginable to the average American. With the archetypal European social model--high taxes, a highly regulated labor market, and huge public welfare and social security systems, including of course essentially free health care for all--France is an extremely attractive country to which to emigrate. But these same social benefits and the rigidly structured economy that goes with them are being taxed beyond their capacity. France has become a country where the disincentives to work--in the form of guaranteed minimum income, housing and food subsidies, and so forth, and the disincentives to hire--in the form of crippling social charges to employers and penalties for firing employees, have combined to paralyse the economy.

So, yes! The youth in the suburbs of Paris are unable to find work. So are the young people in other parts of France, many of whom don't even bother trying to work as the state pays them so very well not to. The current unrest and riots are rooted for me not so much in problems of racial discrimination but in the all-pervasive economic problems tormenting France right now.

The French have a long tradition of complaining and being angry. Râler is the French verb meaning to--well, bitch. Well, râler is a national pastime in this country where everyone is constantly jostling for position at the seemingly inexhaustible breast of Mother France. Scarcely a day passes without news of some group or other being en colère, or angry, which can usually be interpreted as news of yet another strike. The French also have a long and unfortunate tradition that can best be summed up as that of les droits acquis--acquired rights. What that means in practice is that all a politician has to do to trigger a strike is to mention the idea of, say, capping retirement benefits for public transportation workers, for example, for the entire system to go on strike. Unfortunately, the young men in the suburbs of Paris are using a more violent means of expressing their colère.

France is a country that guarantees a minimum income to all its citizens (including the young men burning cars), gives them the best health care in the world, invests proportionately more in public schools in disadvantaged area than in wealthier ones, and where college education is free. It's a country where I have several times seen marches of "sans papiers" (illegal immigrants) being protected by police cordons. It's a country where the slightest sanction is subjected to an agony of self-examination (the recently locally imposed curfews in troubled neighborhoods--a mild measure by any standard--immediately raised a hue and cry because it relied on a law used during the war in Algeria). France is a country which, if anything, is in danger of destroying itself through good intentions.

What's needed in my opinion is a moderate dose of liberalization to free up the economy and create employment for these young people, and some moderate social changes in general that make it more attractive to work than to become wards of those who do work, and pay prohibitively high taxes to pay for those who don't. I can only hope that French politicians find the courage to make some changes soon--no matter how much colère ensues from their constituencies. The cure for what is ailing France is a healthy dose of souplesse--the flexibility to build a solution that enables the French social model to survive in a form that maintains France's republican ideals but is adapted to the stresses of the century.

Perhaps Air France will have some good prices to Europe during the Summer of 2006.

excuse my typo that should read "Atelier Vert"

Cigalechanta, thanks for the post. I knew it was a complex issues and this does explain a lot.

Patrick,
Around here, a beach trip is common for a honeymoon. Better Myrtle Beach than South of the Border is my opinion. How about Paris casino in Las Vegas instead?

Thanks, Cigale. Sometimes it needs an expat to disentangle complicated issues. I cut and pasted it to try and explain the situation better to my American friends (on a one to one basis of course, no further use on a public board! )

Thanks for posting that cigale. It was a very interesting read. ((F))

Marie, it was a snotty comment, don't let it bother you.

"France is also a staunchly secular country. This stance is at the heart of the famous "head scarf" ban. Ostentious signs of Christianity are also banned in public schools. You can agree or disagree, but perhaps, in light of the fact that France is home to several million Muslims, the growth of Islamic extremism on the one hand and Christian extremism on the other--maybe secularization isn't such a bad thing!"

You can't have a post-modern society without erasing religion from public life. Will France be successful in their efforts to ban Islamic symbolism from the public domain?