Barbara_in_FL

We're just back from Skye with a short detour to Paris. The Skye trip report will be forthcoming but I thought I'd post quickly here, not to really give any new or earth-shattering information, but to share our recent experiences at Charles de Gaulle.

We flew from Florida to Atlanta, to Charles de Gaulle, and then to Edinburgh (same route in reverse on the return). We were on frequent flyer tickets and going another route would have required flying on days that didn't work as well. We made the best of it by breaking our trip on the way back so I could see an old friend in Paris.

Thanks to this forum I was prepared for our luggage to stay in Paris on the way over while we continued on to Edinburgh (on an Air France/Delta code share flight). The actual connection, although short (just over an hour), went smoothly. Because we had planned ahead, we had everything we needed for the first couple of days with us. Our checked bags found us about 24 hours later. The Air France representative I spoke to on the phone was very nice and encouraged me to go spend my allowance (I think 100E?) but, honestly, I didn't have the time or the need.

On the way back, it was just me and my 9-year-old son (my husband went straight home from Edinburgh with the 4-year-old). The flight from Edinburgh to Paris was uncomplicated; we had to check one bag but it arrived along with us.

Leaving Paris, unfortunately, was another story. We set out for the airport (via the RER from Gare du Nord) with plenty of time to spare, but a series of small mishaps delayed us. Still, we arrived at Charles de Gaulle 2 about 1 hour and 45 minutes ahead of our departure time, so I felt OK. As we started to come up from the RER station, we were stopped by armed guards and directed to the other side of the station. We were informed that they were investigating a suspicious package. There we stood for about 25 minutes. There were no announcements and no options for leaving. (The airport itself was not affected, so if we had arrived some other way we would probably not have been stopped.)

When we were allowed to go upstairs, I could not find our flight on the monitors. Atlanta did not appear ANYWHERE. Again, based on others' comments about the airport, I was not surprised, but it was not a good omen.

We asked two airport employees standing nearby where we could find out about our flight. They told us to head towards either terminal 2C or 2E.

Unfortunately for me, we had a 50-50 shot at picking the right one, and I missed. We ran down 2C, slowing down just enough to see that Atlanta STILL appeared NOWHERE on any of the departure screens, and asked the first Air France employee we could find where the flight left from. He sent us to 2E. By the time we got to 2E, the flight had been closed (I don't remember for how long -- less than five minutes) and they wouldn't let us on.

So...if we hadn't been stopped in the RER (which Delta later said was "not their problem" as they charged me for a change in our ticket), if the flight had appeared anywhere on the departure screens, if I had by complete chance run ahead to 2E first...but at least we were able to rebook, and then we had time to sit down and catch our breath before taking the next plane.

It was very frustrating to see how empty the plane was (we were flying on a Wednesday, so I wasn't expecting it to be packed, but I haven't seen such an empty international flight in years) and to know that the earlier flight probably had plenty of extra space on it.

I'm not sure what the moral of the story is. In principle we intended to and should have gotten there two hours early. Maybe the moral is, if your 9-year-old loses a beloved toy on your way out of the hotel, just say "sorry" and keep moving. ; ) Or, if men with machine guns stop you from exiting from the RER to the airport terminal, go out the front and try to get a taxi to take you around to another airport entrance. Definitely know where your flight usually leaves from ahead of time, even though it might change, in case Air France/Delta decides not to post it on the departures screen. And always have clean underwear in your carry-on.

Now that that is out of my system, more on Paris and Skye a little later.

djkbooks

We always get to CDG at least 3 to 3-1/2 hours ahead of departure. AND, it's a good idea to know your terminal before heading to there.

yk

Thanks for sharing Barbara. The moral is leave plenty of time to get to airport as sh*t can happen. To me, for a Trans-Atlantic flight, getting to the airport 2 hrs beforehand is a MINIMUM. I usually allow 2.5 hours.

Also it is very important to know which Terminal you're flying OUT of, BEFORE you leave for your trip.

The same is also very true for Heathrow, as T 1,2,3 are essentially together, but T4 and T5 are miles away. Trains and buses make separate stops for the terminals so if you pick the wrong terminal, you're SOL.

Can you elaborate on what mishaps you encountered on the RER en route to CDG?

Barbara_in_FL

Most of it falls into the "stuff happens" category. We would have been three hours ahead of time, but for the lost animal (a stuffed puffin). I should have said "tant pis," but when confronted with tears, I tend to try to solve the problem. Then, from the top of Montmartre, I got on a bus going in the wrong direction and wasted about 20 minutes that way (because we had to wait to go in the other direction). My French is pretty good, but my comprehension plummets when regional accents are involved. So, between the puffin and the bus, we lost an hour and thus missed the train(s) I was shooting for. I thought we would make some of it up, in a way, because we were able to catch a non-stop RER to the airport, but alas. What I regret most is not finding out ahead of time what gate I needed to go to, as I think we could have "just" made it despite the security issues. Also, that would have been something within my control. I just thought my story would reinforce the need to have that information ahead of time. I actually have traveled quite a bit, and I was struck by the lack of information at CDG. I guess I should just be glad that nothing caved in while I was there! But, live and learn. As I told my son, when you leave something behind in a place, it means you don't really want to leave, and this way we got to spend three more hours in Paris before coming home.

Barbara_in_FL

Sorry, one clarification. I knew I needed terminal 2 (I said "gate" before, but of course I could not have gone directly to the gate). What I did not know was whether it was 2C, 2E, or some other part of 2 (the numbers are really misnomers, in my opinion, because terminal 2 is so big that it could be several separate terminals).

I should also add that not only was Atlanta completely missing from the departure monitors, there was nothing even vaguely resembling my flight number (which I did have -- I wasn't just looking for "the Atlanta flight," although in the end that's the only thing Air France recognized -- the employees did not recognize my flight number at all). I don't know if it's because the flight was a "code share," but either way it should have appeared on the departure screens under SOME number. There was nothing even listed at the time the flight departed.

My husband also had some minor trouble leaving Edinburgh because Air France and Delta, although code share partners, apparently do not share information well. So I will add another caveat, for people traveling on code share tickets with Delta (I think this has also been mentioned elsewhere), to have BOTH flight numbers at hand.

But enough airport woes; I will work on the fun part later.

nytraveler

This is the reason that you get to the airport early for international flights. Not sort of whenthey told you - but early.

I have had car accidents shut highways, terrorist threats mean that every one in the airport had to go through security 3 times - and once a cab with a flat tire.

If you plan on getting to the airport 3 hours early you at least have a chance if one of these things happens.

I know it may seem like a waste of an hour - but it's better than all that frantic rushing. You can always sit and have a coffee or buy a magazine.

StCirq

Yup, my personal goal is always at LEAST 3 hours ahead for a flight out of CGD. I once got there and the actual United Counter was totally shut down - nowhere to be seen, and no one to explain what happened, until I found a baggage attendant who told me my flight, which was UA 911 had been totally cancelled because of the fearas of passengers about the number of the flight. Imagine me...roaming around CDG at 6:30 in the morning looking for a United Gate that did not evern exist anymore. Was way weird, but strange stuff happens, and even if it doesn't you'd better get to CDG three hours early.

Travelnut

I appreciate Barbara sharing her experiences and mishaps so we can be aware or be reminded of what can go wrong.

I booked thru Delta for Continental flights, so I'll be sure to go back and see if there are 'Delta' flight numbers for the same route we're flying on Continental.

We just went to Holland, and I went to an internet shop and 'checked in' early so I could get boarding passes, which show the departure gate. (USAir) I hope we can do this when in Paris this September.

Carlux

I sympathize, having almost missed a flight after a 5 hour wait IN the airport because we thought we were at the right gate - couldn't see it on the board, but we were sure we were in the right place.

We were on our way back from Cape Town to Toulouse, had been up all night, and had a 5 hour stop over in Frankfort. Arrived at 5.30 a.m., couldn't see the flight on the board. I guess we're too early, I said, went to the gate shown on our boarding pass, and tried to get some sleep. Luckily my husband started to realise that there should be SOMEONE else at that gate for our flight, still couldn't see it on the board, and got someone to check.

Of course, it was in another terminal. We dashed over, and managed to get there just as the bus was leaving to get to the plane.

I should have thought about the fact that the terminal one is in shows only the flights landing there,not flights in other terminals. But we had our boarding pass with the gate listed - just the wrong gate.

A similar thing happened this year, but we now knew to double check. Sure enough, the gate number had changed again, but at least this time in the same terminal.

Barbara_in_FL

Travelnut, I was not able to check in on line. That would have been a help, as we did not actually need to check bags on the way back (I ended up checking two, but that was partly because we were going to be wandering around the terminal for awhile). I don't know whether that is related to the problem of Air France and Delta and their agreement to code-share without actually communicating. ; ) I hope you'll have better luck.

Carlux, thanks for your cautionary tale as well.

kerouac

Sometimes everything contributes to delay you. I live in Paris and know my terminals before I arrive at CDG, but there have been a few time when even 3 hours were barely enough. You just never know. It can be security alerts, late gate changes, a clueless large group of passengers (often from China now) completely disrupting the immigration and security checks, weather conditions on the other side of Europe -- the list is endless. Grin and bear.

sheila

Hard luck, sweetie.

We fly Air France through CDG quite a lot. We ALWAYS carry clothes for at least one day, since we almost NEVER get our luggage at that same time as we arrive.

And we are sooooo used to running between terminals it's not true. But that's usually the airlines fault.

Barbara_in_FL

Well, I thought I was grinning and bearing, kerouac. Much more annoying at the moment is that the message I posted late last night (while waiting for my creaky computer to stop choking on the photos I was trying to copy) is nowhere to be found this morning. I will have to re-construct it later, I guess. It was a summary of our three days in Paris. I'm not posting all this as a complaint, just as a little bit of extra encouragement to people using CDG that, indeed, the stories of lost baggage and random delays are quite true.

josephina

Ah, the stuffed puffin. Know it well. It just so happens it was the successful bribe for our two thirteen-year-olds to finish the last leg of a Scotland biking trip in the pouring rain. I couldn't have left the toy behind for one of them, let alone a little one.

Barbara, you did everyone a big favor with this "What could go wrong" post. You can bet this link will be listed anytime someone asks: "How early do I need to leave my hotel to get to CDG before my flight?"

I get irked when someone smoothly posts something like: "This isn't a problem. Took us only 30 minutes to get to CDG. We arrived less than 2 hours before our flight and there was no problem."

I have no doubt that the poster is telling the truth, because many, many times, we've had no problem at all getting to and through CDG.

But we've also left Paris well over four hours ahead of our flight, made it to CDG with three hours to spare, and just barely made the plane.

Every single time there's a different cause in getting to the darn plane.

Once a second security check point immediately before the waiting area resulted in a one-hour line. No line at all at the first security check; endless at the second. We had dallied for 1/2 hr for coffee and croissants between the two points. Never again.

Another time when we were trying to make a connection between terminals via the CDGVAL, there was some breakdown in between stops. We couldn't get off the darn thing. One precious hour gone--poof!--beyond our control.

Got at least 10 of these, but I like yours the best. Again, thank you for taking the time to do everyone a favor.

Christina

I've never had a problem at CDG with flights not being listed on the board, but I always book with the actual carrier (Air France, for example, not Delta). Also, when I do have a codeshare, I always make sure I know the other flight number -- it's usually right on the screen when you book it on sights like expedia. If you book with Delta, and know it's AF, it's easy just to look it up.

I think I have my hotel check with AF the day before on the terminal or something, although sometimes I think I just go with what I have (I always have the terminal, like 2E, never just 2), as I always plan to arrive 3 hrs in advance and figure I can move if I must. But AF tends to only fly out of two terminals, I think (used to be one).

I have had the board not working or not showing my flight in another airport (Madrid) and that was because the boards were broken. I remember I did waste a little time there because I thought it hadn't been posted yet with the gate number and it was just broken.

Dorothy01

Barbara:

Wow, some posters are a bid harsh. We had a similar experience in April at CDG.

We stayed at a hotel just five minutes from CDG; we left about three hours before our flight departed (AA to DFW). After we turned in the car, I realized that we were at the wrong terminal. I have traveled from CDG about 20 times in the past six years and am very familiar with the airport.

We were walking to our terminal when we encountered a huge crowd of people and they were not moving. We were at the area where two terminals come together and there are moving sidewalks to help with the traffic flow. Armed police (machine guns) were keeping everyone from moving. By now we had about two hours until our flight departed. We stood with the crowd for at least 30 minutes.

We figured out that there was a suspicious bag abandoned on the moving sidewalk. A whistle sounded and was followed by a muffled boom. The suspicious bag was destroyed in a special chamber.

After another ten minutes or so, we were allowed to pass through. We arrived at the check-in counter with about 90 minutes to spare. The coach line was enormous. Thank goodness, we can check in at the business class section, so our wait was not too long. We did make our flight but were not able to spend as much time in the Admirals Club.

Frances

It is the unexpected things which cause the problems although that will seem obvious to all of us reading this. The reality is different.
On a trip to Hawai'i last March we were leaving from Manchester. Even though this is less than two hours from our home , with the benefit of experience and an 8am check in we went to the airport the night before-just to avoid this sort of problem. The hotel-Bewleys is a stones throw from the runway and you can walk to terminal 3 in 5 minutes.
The garage we normally use which was on the edge of the runway had closed and been taken over by a company which provided us with a map showing it was just off the access road from the motorway. We set off at about 7.15 and could not find the garage. The directions were for people coming off the motorway. We circled (in the car) before deciding to go out to the motorway and then come back in so that we could pick up the map. We took the wrong road and ended up on our way into Manchester. We went about 15 mins before we could get off the road and things were now very fraught!
When we found the parking it was actually within sight of our hotel but it took us nearly an hour to find that out!
Next day we checked in on line for our onward flight in Atlanta. We still (in light of the day before's experience) decided to go to the airport early and caught the airport shuttle from the Marriott with 3 hours to spare. We'd heard about the security queues so we were playing safe. On the shuttle I checked for my tickets and initially couldn't find them. I soon found them but another passenger laughed and made a comment about how I nearly missed my plane. I told him we had allowed plenty of time and I could have gone back to the hotel if necessary. He asked if I knew the hour had changed that morning! We didn't!
Went to express check-in for those who had checked in on-line. Time now getting short. When we got to the front of the queue the assisstant who was not blessed with customer skills looked at our on-line check-in boarding cards and told us they were no good and we had to go and do it again at the machines behind us . Queue for machine . 1st machine not working when we got to it. Queue for second machine. Would not process our request(because we had already checked in on-line!) Back to Mr Happy who now accepted the documents he'd rejected half an hour ago without a murmur!
Thirty-five minutes in security but moving very efficiently. Made it!
On leaving Maui for an inter-island flight I was by now a little nervous.Took the car back and we were asked to go inside. We had taken a "Wheels" deal from our hotel and extended it (before picking up the car) and been given figures which we had paid in advance.The figures didn't tally! They went over andover the figures getting a different result every time.
Eventually got there!
That's why I say its the unexpected things which cause you problems!

Gretchen

Sorry you had this but it is also a reason we take a taxi to the airport. And I have taken the RER one time, so I know what is required and choose not to.

Gretchen

And I will add that sometimes things happen IN CDG that will hold you up. We were already through checking in at the counter when everything (escalators) were shut down because of a suspicious "thing". The little robot blew it up, but by that time the backlog of people was so great that they couldn't turn on the escalators. Picture people climbing the escalator/stairs, snaking through the immigration control, and then on into the concourses. It was truly a mess, and VERY hot!
Get there early.

josephina

A taxi is a guarantee? Oh my goodness, that can be a disaster, too. You haven't had total freeway breakdown? I remember a trip back to CDG where so many accidents had fouled so many alternative routes that our dear driver just burst into tears in frustration. I remember our little nine-year-old handing him tissues and patting him on the shoulder.

Heck, just the weather can wreck the actual taxi reservations. We always took a taxi to the airport. We religiously reserved our airport return with our hotel the day we signed in, re-reserved 24 hours in advance of the actual hotel departure (which was at least four hours before the actual flight) and would watch the concierge make the actual confirmation call. Belt and suspenders. That be us. Worked for 7 trips in a row. We really thought we had control of our fate. Ha!

Day of departure. Monday morning. Pouring rain since 4 a.m. No show taxi. Nada. Front desk makes call after call after call. Can't even get through by the fourth try. All lines are jammed for all companies. We know our time is just up. The concierge, sighing, explained that sometimes in Paris there are days like these where no taxi will respond, and he quickly explained how the Air France bus, a stop for which happened to be four blocks away, worked. He looked at his watch and said, "If you are very good athletes, you have exactly 12 minutes to make the next bus." We were game. We made it.

Made it to the airport smoothly, no freeway breakdowns that day, no lines through security (thank God!) and got on, no problem. And we loved it that we got to experience the Air France bus.

As Frances said so nicely, the unexpected causes havoc. Sometimes, no amount of planning on earth can hold off disaster. And sometimes disaster brings its own rewards.

But as Barbara and others I'm sure will certainly agree, if we wanted the expected, we would have stayed home, right? And Barb, you and your family will always have the tale of the missing puffin for Thanksgiving dinner stories.