Advise on Loire, Dordogne, Languedoc & Provence
 

We are travelling to France in late May and early June. After spending a week in Paris we thought we would take the TGV to Avignon. We have 14 more days. How do we split up the 14 days amongst the Loire, Dordogne, Languedoc & the Provence areas and what towns in each area to you recommend staying in as a base? We will rent a car in Avignon and return it at CDG.

That's probably more ground than I would want to cover in 14 days. Do you already have your airplane tickets? If not, I would not go back to CDG, but fly home from Toulouse instead. There are several international connections from there - Bordeaux would work also but I much prefer Toulouse to Bordeaux.

I would get my fill of Renaissance Chateaux by visiting Versalles while in Paris, & skip the Loire.

That would leave:
5 days for Provence - 1 base is fine
4 days for driving through the Languedoc - different place each night - maybe 2 nights in the Gorge du Tarn
5 nights in the Dordogne - near Sarlat
Last afternoon & night in Toulouse.

Click on my name - someone is planning a similar itinerary & I gave her some ideas for getting from Provence to the Dordogne via the Languedoc.

Stu Dudley

Vanman

I'm going to be gone this entire weekend. Click on my name & find some of my past posts about the areas you are considering. Then post here and answer the following questions:

1. What day of the week to you leave Paris to explore the areas south
2. What day of the week do you depart from Paris if your tickets are already purchased or if you must depart from Paris for some other reason. If you don't have tickets still indicate the day of the week you depart (Sundays in Toulouse, Bordeaux, Dijon, etc are dead)
3. Which regions that you have mentioned are your top 2
4. Are you amenable to changing hotels for 4 nights in a row, 2 nights in a row, don't like changing hotel, etc.

Stu Dudley

Good advice from Stu

Thanks Stu;
I did click on your name and obtained a lot of information from your previous posts.

You talked us out of the Loire as we will be visiting Versalles while in Paris; your're right, how many chateaus do we need to see specially if the Loire is not as scenic as other areas.

Answering your questions:

We have not reservied our flights as of yet so we are flexible on our return flight.

We will leave Paris on Saturday 31 May and head south on the TGV.

We want to return home on 14 or 15 June (Sat or Sun).

Our top two regions would be Provence and the Dordogne.

We do not like one-night stands so changing hotels 4 nights in a row would problably be unacceptable but not impossible. Last year we did Switzerland and stayed 6 to 3 nights at a lcoation over a 23 day period and that worked great for us.

Regarding returning home from Toulouse rather than Bordeaux, why to you prefer Toulouse?

Again thanks for your help.

Tom

Rather than being a contrary poster and outright disgreeing with Stu Dudley about the many and very varied chateaux in the Loire I'll simply top this for you.

I would read up on where you would like the most to stay. Provence has many areas and different terrains as well as food. The Gorge of Verdon is one place you should see IF nature lovers. Each of your other choices have their own special features. Languedoc especially that is often over-looked.

I think 2 nights in Gorge du Tarn is unnecessary (sorry Stu!) Drive thru yes, and don't miss the Millau bridge!

Images2 and others -
In travelling between Provence and the Dordogne, how does one drive through the Gorge du Tarn AND see the Millau bridge? I thought it was one or the other?
Thanks. I am working on a similar itinerary as Stu referred to in a previous post. If we spend 3 nights to get between Provence and the Dordogne, (St. Enimie, Conques and St. Cere) as suggested, we have to sacrifice a bit of time in each area. So that is the question - to take our time between the two areas or take a more speedy route. We're still up in the air about that route.
So, I will be looking here for replies to Vanman that will also assist my planning.

We actually drove through the Gorges du Tarn, hiked the main trail of The Chaos de Montpellier-le-Vieux and visited the visitor center of the Millau bridge all on the same day this past September.

We didn't do any hiking or canoeing in the gorge, but there was only a trikle of water in the river anyhow. We entered the gorge at La Canourgue, but you'll probably enter it at Ispagnac. Drive to St Enimie where you'll want to get out and see the town. Don't forget to see St. Chely du Tarn also, very cute, but won't take much time. Drive onto Malene. Now the gorge gets even more beautiful We didn't go to Point Sublime, which I'm sure is wonderful, but is what we sacrificed. We drove to le Rozier then from there down to the Chaos. I loved hiking the Chaos, and we didn't feel rushed. Don't miss this if you can fit it in. From here it's a short drive over to Millau, You'll need to drive by it anyhow. There is a visitors center at Creissels. You need to be looking for the signs though, because it's not well marked. The center is right at the base of the bridge. It's spectacular. You can drive over to Peyre and you'll pass under and along the pilings. The toll for the bridge is collected at exit/entrance 45 of A -75. We entered here and drove north so didn't have to pay the toll again, since we drove over the bridge on our way north a few days earlier.

Using the plan I just described, you'll see the gorge and the bridge, but not drive over the bridge if you then drive north on A-75. If you want to spend the night in Conques you could exit A-75 at exit 42, and take N88 towards Rodez, then N140 past Rodez to D22 up to Conques.

This is possible in a day, but it'll be a long day!

You'll want to buy Michelin local map 330 for this part of France!

hi, vanman,

there is a current thread about 3 weeks in bonnieux in Provence - enough to fill your 14 days and more.

also recommendations for B & B in sarlat [dordogne] - look under the B&B thread.

remember - you lose at least half a day [in this case a whole day between provence and dordogne] every time you move.

less is more!

regards, ann

Mas Vacquières http://www.masvac.com is a B&B I've wanted to try and may be a good spot to spend the night on the way to the gorge. I think it's also in Karen Brown's book.

It's located just east of Ales in St. Just et Vacquieres.

I’m back from a weekend in the wine country

I have 3 long itineraries that I’ve e-mailed to well over 500 people on the Fodors travel board. You will need these because they go into a lot more detail than I could possibly describe here. E-mail me at [email protected] to get a copy

Here is what I would do for a first-timer to France who wanted to minimize hotel changes;

Saturday
Take the TGV from Paris to Avignon, like you planned
Where to stay
This gets debated quite a bit on the Fodors message board. The first time we visited Provence for an extended stay, we spent 2 weeks in the Luberon, 2 weeks near St Remy, & 2 weeks near Vaison. St Remy & the Luberon seem to be the two most popular places with Fodorites. I prefer the Luberon personally because I think the region is much more scenic than the area around St Remy. Also, you are just arriving after a week in Paris. If this was my itinerary, I would want my next destination to be less congested with cars & people, and surrounded by more “nature”. I find this to be more the case in the Luberon than in St Remy. You could stay at Kevin’s B&B (frequent Fodors contributor), and be surrounded by vineyards. http://www.masperreal.com/index.html If you prefer a regular hotel, there are several nice ones around Gordes .

Provence – 6 nights – 1 hotel/B&B
Get Michelin Map 113

Sat – after you arrive, explore the Luberon a bit around Bonnieux, Saignon, & Menerbes. If you arrive early in the day, Apt will be having their market, so getting to Saignon will be a little difficult - make it the last stop.

Sun – I’ll contradict what I said earlier & suggest that you head to the wonderful but crowded Sunday morning market in l’Isle sur la Sorgue. This is perhaps the most popular market in France. Lots of food, Provence fabric, Crafts, Provence soap, very nice antique flea market, and serious antiques. See my Provence itinerary for more details. We’ve spent over 14 weeks in Provence, and my wife never misses this market on a visit. This year we went twice. Here is the “trick” to enjoy the market, but miss the crowds. Get there at 8am. Wander through the market & head towards the church. Observe the vendors setting up their stalls – it’s quite interesting. At the church, have a coffee & croissants (several cafes there), and continue to watch the vendors set-up. At 8:45, tour the market. The section along the ring road near the river get the most crowded – so do this section first & the interior areas later. The flea market sets-up last, so do it last. The market closes around 1pm, but the permanent antique markets stay open all day. http://antiquite-islesursorgue.com/ . The market gets too crowded for me around 10:30 (we were there the same time in June that you’re visiting ). However, if you are a real antique buff – you’ll want to visit longer & perhaps have lunch. Just make sure you secure a lunch table no later than 12:15.

For the remainder of the day, visit Gordes and Roussillon in the Luberon. If you have read any of my past posts, you’ll know that I constantly warn people that shops usually close on Sundays & Monday mornings. Shops will be open Sunday in l’Isle sur la Sorgue (there are some very good ones), and also in Gordes & Roussillon – but not Bonnieux.

Mon – see my itinerary & take the Lavender Field Route. Lavender will not be blooming, so skip the section below Sault & head directly for Montbrun and follow the route as described. It will end up with a visit to Senanque Abbey. You should have some time left in the day so visit Oppede le Vieux, Lacoste, and Goult. See my itinerary for suggested scenic roads to take between these towns & avoid the N100. The N100 is scenic is places, but not in others. Read my itinerary to find the non-scenic sections around Apt & Coustellet.

Tues – head over to the St Remy area & visit St Remy, les Baux, Glanum, Eygaliers, and the scenic section south of les Baux. See my itinerary for details. St Remy has its market on Wed, but I think the market interferes with the enjoyment of the town. Les Baux is best in the early morning just as it opens, or late in the afternoon just before closing. See the GG for opening & closing times.

Wed – Head north from l’Isle sur las Sorgue, through Pernes, then take the D1 to Mazan, then the most direct route to Bedoin. You will start to see a lovely view of Mt Ventoux if the weather is clear. Take a good look, and if you can not see the top of Mt Ventoux clearly, do not take a trip up there. If it is clear, proceed to Bedoin & when you pass a grocery on your right, and then the main street in town with lots of outdoor cafes, there will be a fork in the road – the trip to Mt Ventoux is on the right & Malaucene to the left. If it’s clear, go up to Mt Ventoux summit, then continue on to Malacene (I’ll assume you’re following this on a map). If it is not clear, from Bedoin take the road to Malaucene, which is also a very scenic road. From Malaucene, continue to Vaison la Romaine for a visit. Make sure you stay on the left (south) side of the river, and soon you will come to a bridge with a lovely view. Park the car, but do not go over the bridge to the “newer” section of town. Instead go up the road to the left to the much more interesting medieval section of Vaison. It’s steep, but the “newer” section is not. After you have visited the medieval section, walk through the “newer” section and visit the Roman Ruins.

Next do a loop around the lovely Dentelles mountains going counter-clockwise through Seguret (stop & visit), Gigondas (stop & taste), and finally Baumes de Venise (stop & taste). See my itinerary and the Michelin Green Guide for details. Le Mesclun in Seguret would be a great place for lunch – but call to reserve. When we stopped by it was “complet”

Continue back to Pernes les Fountains, and stop at the tourist office, pick up a walking map of the town, and “discover” the fountains. We really enjoyed this walk. There is an interesting museum there also. See my Itinerary & GG for details.

Thurs –Visit Aix en Provence. It’s their market day – which is excellent. Actually there is a market in 3 different locations. See my itinerary for details, and also the GG. You may have time left in the day, so visit any place that interests you.

Note that I did not have you visiting Avignon, Nimes, or Arles. After just coming from Paris, I would want more countryside than city.

Friday – Head out early for a drive through the Languedoc – 2 nights in the Gorge du Tarn, and 1 night in Conques.

Skirt around Avignon heading for the Pont du Gard. Visit the Pont and the very interesting nuseum there. This museum is somewhat new, and very well done. You may experience some school children at the museum. If they get in the way, visit the museum at lunch time when they will be elsewhere. There is a cafeteria style lunch place in the museum complex.

After the Pont, head to Uzes – one of our favorite towns. Don’t get there any earlier than 3 pm (to let the stores open). The percentage of “quality” shops in Uzes is excellent. See the GG for Provence & follow the walking Itinerary. The Place au Herbs would be an excellent location for lunch if you did not visit the museum at the Pont.

Switch to map 339, and the Languedoc Green Guide

From Uzes, take the D982 west. There were some pretty poppy fields along this road when we were there a few years back. Get on the D8 west and when it hits the D907, take that northwest to Anduze. This is a cute town, but you probably won’t have much time for a visit.

Next take the lovely Corniche des Cevannes road – which is the D9 west from St Jean du Gard to Florac. Look up Cevannes in the Languedoc GG & note that it suggests that you take this drive in the late afternoon – which will probably be the time you hit this spot.

At Florac, head into the Gorge du Tarn and stay in St Enimie 2 nights, or if you want to stay in a lovely castle, stay 2 nights at the Chateau de la Caze. I believe it is “written up” in Karen Brown’s guide www.karenbrown.com. Ira also has a hotel he liked in that area.

Sat – my Languedoc Itinerary has lots of info about the Gorge du Tarn, so I won’t repeat it here. Make sure you also see (in addition to the Gorge & it’s lookouts) the Chaos de Montpellier le Vieux, and the fantastic stalactite & mite caves at Aven Armand. This cave has much more interesting secretions than any cave you will find in the Dordogne. The nearby Dargilan cave also has excellent secretions. In June, Avan Armand does not close for lunch. The Millau bridge is within striking distance.

Sunday – Visit the Gorge some more if you like. From St Enimie take the scenic D998 northwest to La Canourgue, and then the D45 west to St Saturnin, then the D45 to the D95 to St Geniez d’Olt and the Lot River. Switch to map #338. Drive down the Lot looking at a few “Most Beautiful Villages of France” along the way – Ste Eulalie (stop & visit), St Come with the twisted steeple, Espalion (stop & visit), Estaing (visit village & castle), and then Entraygues.. This drive is described in my Languedoc Itinerary.

After the Entraygues, head west to Conques & stay overnight. This is a “destination” village and it gets a bit crowded, so staying overnight will allow you to enjoy it without all the people. It will have fewer people, however, than you will encounter in many villages in Provence & the Dordogne. See the GG for a description of the town.

Sunday – visit Conques some more if you like. Switch to the Dordogne Green Guide. Then head west to Figeac (Sundays are not good days for visits) and then follow the lovely Cele river (not the Lot river) west to St Cirq Lapopie & Pech Merle Cave. This drive is also discussed in my itinerary. In early May, make a reservation for a guided visit to Peche Merle in the afternoon. St Cirq Lapopie is close to Peche Merle, so visit it either before or after the cave. Do not miss Pech Merle.

Switch to map 329

After St Cirq Lapopie & Peche Merle, head up to the Sarlat area by getting on the A20 at exit 57 & off at exit 55 and then west along the very scenic portion (once past Souillac)

Dordogne 6 nights – Sunday to Friday, departing Sat

My Dordogne itinerary is full of things to see in the Dordogne, and it seems that about a dozen people on Fodors visited the Dordogne this year & wrote trip reports.

There are some interesting things to see in the region east of Soulliac (Rocamadour, Padirac, Colonges la Rouge, Martel, Castelnau-Bretnoux, small villages) that you can’t really visit on a single day trip from Sarlat. If you don’t mind another “one-nighter, after visiting Peche Merle/St Cirq Lapopie, stay overnight in Rocamadour, visit this village (best without day-trippers anyway), and possibly Padirac (it has a closing time). Next day hit Castelnau, Carennac, Martel, Collonges, and Turenne (if time permits) before heading to Sarlat.

Since you have stayed in small villages in the countryside for the past week, perhaps now it’s time for a city stay – so consider staying in Sarlat. This “where to stay” gets debated a quite a bit also. I would either stay in Sarlat, or as close to Beynac or Roque Gageac as you can. Domme would be OK too, but it’s a little more difficult to get in & out.

Last Saturday - Leave Sarlat early & take the A20 south from Souillac.

Here you have some options, but I would not make any decisions until Friday night. You can either:
1. Linger in the Dordogne some more and then take the A20 directly to Toulouse & get there around 2 pm, or
2. Leave the Dordogne early, and visit Albi, its cathedral, the chateau with the Toulouse Lautrec Museum in the morning, and then Toulouse in the afternoon.

Anyhow, when you get to Toulouse, drop the bags off at the hotel (see my itinerary for 2 suggestions), then dump the car, walk to the hotel, & visit Toulouse.

Toulouse is one of my three favorite cities in France (after Paris). It has lots of interesting architecture, and is quite an “alive” city – which you will witness on Saturday night.

Sunday take taxi to airport for flight home.

Stu Dudley

Thanks Stu....great information and I will e-mail you for those intineraries.

Thanks to cigalechanta, Images2, aunrise & annhig for your comments too; all very helpful. I'll get working on these suggestions and do some reading then I'l be back with more questions I'm sure.

Oh, here's a question already - Is 6 months out too soon to start making lodging reservations?

Thanks

Tom

On your question about lodging, no, it is probably not too soon (though it really depends on how popular a given lodging is). One thing I found, when planning our trip to the Dordogne and Languedoc areas that we took May, 2007, was that some places (we were focusing on chambres d'hote & small inns) closed for the winter. So I felt like if I didn't catch them (by email) before they closed, then I'd have to wait until they opened back up in the Spring. I don't remember when I actually booked the places; probably Nov. or Dec. would be my guess. If you book by email, especially smaller places, just be patient. They do check their emails, but maybe not every day.

Book Provence ASAP and also the Dordogne. My experience is consistent with Lexma90's.

Stu Dudley

Chiming in (I can't tell if you have decided on one region over the other, sorry!) if you do opt for the Dordogne- we stayed in Beynac at the B&B Residence Versailles and it was unbelieveable- the owners were a large part of the experience and the views were incredible (we could see the hot air balloons over the river valley from the porch). It included big homemade breakfasts and was about 75 euro (I think) nightly and this was in July, high season for them. One day we canoed the river and climbed up from river level to tour both Castlenaud and Le Roque before finally landing back at Beynac- a glorious day. I was not impressed by Sarlat. We toured many of the caves...one thing I did learn was that once you are off the autoroute you do not cover ground nearly as quickly- give yourself plenty of time, so you can enjoy the sights along the way instead of being stressed out about "getting there". Have a fantastic trip!

Thanks. We are getting close to making reservations per the advice above. This recommedation for the Dordogne is great. We will check it out.

Here's another B&B suggestion. On our last trip to the Dordogne, we stayed at a B&B in the middle of Sarlat, Les Chambres du Glacier. We had our 12-year-old son with us, and wanted to be in a place where we could walk around in the evening, walk to restaurants, and he could wander around a bit by himself. While it's not everyone's choice, it worked well for our needs, and the owners were fabulously nice and helpful. The room we had (1 double, 2 single bed) was huge, with a double sink huge bathroom, all sparkling clean. The B&B is right on the main piazza, so the people-watching was great.

The downside to the location was traffic in late May in and out of Sarlat was quite annoying (though we were always able to find free parking within 2 blocks of the B&B). Also, on market day, there was some noise from the stalls being set up in the piazza below.

But if you want an in-town location, it was great.