Advice on my Switzerland Itinerary
Apr 26th, 2019, 02:12 PM
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Advice on my Switzerland Itinerary
After pouring over sites for the last couple of weeks, I have formulated a rough itinerary and would appreciate critique.
This trip is scheduled to begin in the Netherlands and on to Switzerland by last week of June, early July 2020.
1. Zurich or Basel by plane or train from Amsterdam (overnight arrival city?) I understand we could take the train via the scenic Rhine Valley through Cologne. If so, we would probably add a night in Cologne to break up the trip.
2. Grindelwald, Murren, Wengen, or Interlaken, 3 nights (there seems to be a difference in opinion on these options. I would lover your feedback.
3. Lucern 2 nights
4. Chur, 1 or 2 nights before taking the Bernina Express
5. 1 night at a town on the Bernina Line (any suggestions?)
6. Tirano with Bernina Bus to Lugano 2 nights.
7. Train to Milan or other northern Italy location yet to be determined
After all the reading, I determined we (2 active seniors) wanted to limit our area to best afford us to see what is there at a leisurely pace instead of trying to see other regions. We could add additional nights if necessary, we are retired so time is not a constrain, but are trying to be budget conscious.
After I have the exact itinerary down, I will then try and decide the best train passes for us.
Please respond with any alternative suggestions and help.
Thanks in advance for any help you can give me on tweaking this itinerary.
This trip is scheduled to begin in the Netherlands and on to Switzerland by last week of June, early July 2020.
1. Zurich or Basel by plane or train from Amsterdam (overnight arrival city?) I understand we could take the train via the scenic Rhine Valley through Cologne. If so, we would probably add a night in Cologne to break up the trip.
2. Grindelwald, Murren, Wengen, or Interlaken, 3 nights (there seems to be a difference in opinion on these options. I would lover your feedback.
3. Lucern 2 nights
4. Chur, 1 or 2 nights before taking the Bernina Express
5. 1 night at a town on the Bernina Line (any suggestions?)
6. Tirano with Bernina Bus to Lugano 2 nights.
7. Train to Milan or other northern Italy location yet to be determined
After all the reading, I determined we (2 active seniors) wanted to limit our area to best afford us to see what is there at a leisurely pace instead of trying to see other regions. We could add additional nights if necessary, we are retired so time is not a constrain, but are trying to be budget conscious.
After I have the exact itinerary down, I will then try and decide the best train passes for us.
Please respond with any alternative suggestions and help.
Thanks in advance for any help you can give me on tweaking this itinerary.
Apr 26th, 2019, 02:57 PM
#2
Grindelwald, Murren, Wengen, or Interlaken, 3 nights (there seems to be a difference in opinion on these options. I would lover your feedback
Interlaken is a small city. The others are all lovely alpine villages. The best of the area is well above Interlaken. Pick one and don't look back.
Having said that, Grindelwald would not be my personal choice and Interlaken wouldn't even be on my short list. FWIW I've stayed in all of them, as well as Lauterbrunnen.
Three nights is only two days and two days is giving this area serious short shrift IMO and IME.
Add more time! More time! You will not regret it.
Interlaken is a small city. The others are all lovely alpine villages. The best of the area is well above Interlaken. Pick one and don't look back.
Having said that, Grindelwald would not be my personal choice and Interlaken wouldn't even be on my short list. FWIW I've stayed in all of them, as well as Lauterbrunnen.
Three nights is only two days and two days is giving this area serious short shrift IMO and IME.
Add more time! More time! You will not regret it.
Last edited by Melnq8; Apr 26th, 2019 at 03:03 PM.
Apr 26th, 2019, 03:02 PM
#3
I would NOT spend two nights in Chur. Either take an early-arriving train from somewhere else such as Zurich and environs and get the first departure of the Bernina or spend no more than one night in Chur. And i would spend the day elsewhere and use Chur simply for the overnight accommodation. Just not enough IMO to keep you occupied longer
Apr 26th, 2019, 03:08 PM
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For lots about trains and passes check www.bugeteuropetravel.com (online European Planning & Rail Guide is excellent - rail itineraries for each country; www.ricksteves.com and www.seat61.com. For schedules for all European trains - www.bahn.de/en - German Railways site and easy to use.
I'd consider staying in the Rhine Gorge in a small riverside town like St Goar, Rudesheim, Boppard, etc. Escape the big city only thing. And day rip by K-D (www.k-d.com) boats thru the best of the Rhine- the Rhine Gorge between Rudesheim and Koblenz.
4. Chur, 1 or 2 nights before taking the Bernina Express - why a whole day in Chur - I did half-day and was fine - nice town but not much to see unless taking the mountain railway up some fairly low-level Alp -
5. 1 night at a town on the Bernina Line (any suggestions?)
There are no towns along the Bernina Railway between St Moritz except when you get to Italy - but there are some hotels up at the pass itself - I think those would be wonderful o stay in -arrive early and stay in hotels in either Alp Grum or Bernina Ospiz at the summit area- pictures of Bernina Ospiz and its hotels:
https://www.google.com/search?q=bern...w=1280&bih=625
Alp Grum: https://www.google.com/search?q=alp+...w=1280&bih=625
Many folks stay in St Moritz but many are nonplussed with that swank town and prefer nearby smaller dreamier Pontresina - also on Bernina Express line. To really appreciate the Bernina train you really have to get off at the summit stations and walk around an Alpine lake to the tip of a glacier (if still there!). Just rolling thru the scenery is awesome but getting out and into it is even more exhilarating.
I'd look strongly at the Swiss Travel Pass for that itinerary - covers everything in full and also trains and some gondolas free in Jungfrau area. Lake boats covered too and boat trips on Lake Lucerne and Lake Thun and Lake Brienz - two lakes bookending Interlaken and both make wonderful days out with many neat places along each one. Passes cover the Bernina Express bus to Lugano in full also but there is some kind of reservation fee I think.
Murren is too isolated from places many visit - Wengen is a real hit with Fodorites - nearly everyone loves it but Grindelwald is my favorite - a bigger busier place but a regular town with nightlife and to e the finest views in the Jungfrau area.
Lake Como is close to Lugano and is one of the most popular places in Italy.
Cheers!
I'd consider staying in the Rhine Gorge in a small riverside town like St Goar, Rudesheim, Boppard, etc. Escape the big city only thing. And day rip by K-D (www.k-d.com) boats thru the best of the Rhine- the Rhine Gorge between Rudesheim and Koblenz.
4. Chur, 1 or 2 nights before taking the Bernina Express - why a whole day in Chur - I did half-day and was fine - nice town but not much to see unless taking the mountain railway up some fairly low-level Alp -
5. 1 night at a town on the Bernina Line (any suggestions?)
There are no towns along the Bernina Railway between St Moritz except when you get to Italy - but there are some hotels up at the pass itself - I think those would be wonderful o stay in -arrive early and stay in hotels in either Alp Grum or Bernina Ospiz at the summit area- pictures of Bernina Ospiz and its hotels:
https://www.google.com/search?q=bern...w=1280&bih=625
Alp Grum: https://www.google.com/search?q=alp+...w=1280&bih=625
Many folks stay in St Moritz but many are nonplussed with that swank town and prefer nearby smaller dreamier Pontresina - also on Bernina Express line. To really appreciate the Bernina train you really have to get off at the summit stations and walk around an Alpine lake to the tip of a glacier (if still there!). Just rolling thru the scenery is awesome but getting out and into it is even more exhilarating.
I'd look strongly at the Swiss Travel Pass for that itinerary - covers everything in full and also trains and some gondolas free in Jungfrau area. Lake boats covered too and boat trips on Lake Lucerne and Lake Thun and Lake Brienz - two lakes bookending Interlaken and both make wonderful days out with many neat places along each one. Passes cover the Bernina Express bus to Lugano in full also but there is some kind of reservation fee I think.
Murren is too isolated from places many visit - Wengen is a real hit with Fodorites - nearly everyone loves it but Grindelwald is my favorite - a bigger busier place but a regular town with nightlife and to e the finest views in the Jungfrau area.
Lake Como is close to Lugano and is one of the most popular places in Italy.
Cheers!
Apr 26th, 2019, 05:06 PM
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Like Melnq8, Grindelwald and Interlaken wouldn't be my preferences. I adored Wengen, thought Lauterbrunnen an excellent choice for my purposes, and found Mürren too kitschy and surprisingly oppressed by shadow in some lights. JMO.
While it really depends on what, exactly, you want to see and do, I must admit that I would not describe your plan as leisurely.
My trip was decidedly NOT leisurely, but even so, you might find some useful information in my trip report:
https://www.fodors.com/community/eur...thanks-983126/
While it really depends on what, exactly, you want to see and do, I must admit that I would not describe your plan as leisurely.
My trip was decidedly NOT leisurely, but even so, you might find some useful information in my trip report:
https://www.fodors.com/community/eur...thanks-983126/
Apr 26th, 2019, 09:34 PM
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Hi louky52,
I'm one who prefers to stay in Wengen. It is high enough to have those stunning views, it is car-free, and it has enough restaurants, bars, and cafes to have some life.
I wouldn't stay in Grindelwald in the summer, as it gets overrun with tour busses and the off-loaded passengers (Grindelwald is as high as vehicles can drive, so they all go there). The town is just too small to absorb so many people at one time, and I found it unpleasant.
Interlaken is, as Melnq8 notes, larger. It sits in the flats, and you'll spend your time looking UP to see the peaks. It is more convenient and offers lots of restaurants, hotels, shops, etc.
I personally also dislike Lauterbrunnen, which sits under some cliffs, which always turns me off when I pass through the town. Others have said it gets a lot of shadow from those cliffs, but that may not be too bad in the summer.
Mürren is also small and charming and high on a mountain plateau, and car-free, but it is a bit remote and requires a bit more time to travel down the mountain to go elsewhere.
As for Chur, I plan to be there myself in Nov as I return home from some time in Montreux. There is a ton of hiking from there, as I've found from my research, so I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss it. I think it will be a great stop in the summer!
Have fun as you plan!
s
I'm one who prefers to stay in Wengen. It is high enough to have those stunning views, it is car-free, and it has enough restaurants, bars, and cafes to have some life.
I wouldn't stay in Grindelwald in the summer, as it gets overrun with tour busses and the off-loaded passengers (Grindelwald is as high as vehicles can drive, so they all go there). The town is just too small to absorb so many people at one time, and I found it unpleasant.
Interlaken is, as Melnq8 notes, larger. It sits in the flats, and you'll spend your time looking UP to see the peaks. It is more convenient and offers lots of restaurants, hotels, shops, etc.
I personally also dislike Lauterbrunnen, which sits under some cliffs, which always turns me off when I pass through the town. Others have said it gets a lot of shadow from those cliffs, but that may not be too bad in the summer.
Mürren is also small and charming and high on a mountain plateau, and car-free, but it is a bit remote and requires a bit more time to travel down the mountain to go elsewhere.
As for Chur, I plan to be there myself in Nov as I return home from some time in Montreux. There is a ton of hiking from there, as I've found from my research, so I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss it. I think it will be a great stop in the summer!
Have fun as you plan!
s
Apr 26th, 2019, 11:05 PM
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Day 1 -- if you just want to travel via the Rhine valley, there is no need to overnight in Cologne.
In June, we have appr. 16+ hours of daylight. So you can start early in Amsterdam (sunrise around 5.30am) and still arrive in Basel or Zurich in daylight (sunset around 10pm).
If you opt for Basel: The city is very pretty and still walkable to explore. You could think about spending a full day here.
https://www.basel.com/en
Or explore until the afternoon of day 2, and then continue towards Berner Oberland.
If you want to go by plane and had no special interest to visit either Basel or Zurich, I'd fly via Zurich if only for the convenience of seamless air-to-rail connections. Zurich airport has a mainline train station (Basel airport does not), so you could reach your final destination in the Berner Oberland already on day 1.
In June, we have appr. 16+ hours of daylight. So you can start early in Amsterdam (sunrise around 5.30am) and still arrive in Basel or Zurich in daylight (sunset around 10pm).
If you opt for Basel: The city is very pretty and still walkable to explore. You could think about spending a full day here.
https://www.basel.com/en
Or explore until the afternoon of day 2, and then continue towards Berner Oberland.
If you want to go by plane and had no special interest to visit either Basel or Zurich, I'd fly via Zurich if only for the convenience of seamless air-to-rail connections. Zurich airport has a mainline train station (Basel airport does not), so you could reach your final destination in the Berner Oberland already on day 1.
Apr 27th, 2019, 05:40 AM
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Thanks so much for all the replies and suggestions.
Here are my thoughts after reading through.
1. Fly into Zurich and on to Bernese Oberland area on same day.
2. 3-4 nights in either Grindelwald or Wengen. Leaning toward Wengen, but not sure if it will be too laid back for us. Does it have enough grocery stores, restaurants and activity? Will accomodations be priced equally in both place? Not sure if the tourist atmosphere in Grindelwald will be too much or Wengen will be too quiet. More research to do before I decide.
3. Lucern, 2 nights. Thinking of doing the boat trip to Fluelen or trip to Rigi Kulm. Is 2 nights enough here?
4. Chur, 1 night, catching Bernina Express line.
5. Poschiavo or Le Prese, 1 night. Is this a stop on the Bernina line with easy transfer for 1 night? The reason for stopping for the night is so we don't have a long day on the train from Chur to Tirano 4+ hrs and then bus to Lugano 3+ hrs. I had initally thought to overnight in Tirano, but not sure it is the best option.
6. Lugano, 2 nights using Bernina bus from Tirano. How is it getting from bus in Lugano to accomadation near the lake? Any suggestions on where to stay in Lugano? Is it reccomended to go to Lake Como instead? We were in Limone Italy a few years ago and fell in love with Lake Guarda. I picked Lugano because of the Bernina bus and then easy on to Milan. Is this area any comparison with the look and feel of Lake Guarda?
7. Train to Milan and onward to somewhere in Italy. Not yet planned.
A few notes. We are up to easy hikes, but limited with husbands bad knees. We are both avid amatuer photograhers and love to stroll through quaint villages. Would love to see a castle, but not sure they are accessible with out itinerary? We want to get a sampling of the alps, alpine villages and the gorgeous scenery.
kja, I had read your trip report, and only wish we still had the energy to move at that pace, but your trip sounded fantastic.
Thanks again for all the help so far. I have lots of planning to do and am sure I will be back with more questions.
Jan
Here are my thoughts after reading through.
1. Fly into Zurich and on to Bernese Oberland area on same day.
2. 3-4 nights in either Grindelwald or Wengen. Leaning toward Wengen, but not sure if it will be too laid back for us. Does it have enough grocery stores, restaurants and activity? Will accomodations be priced equally in both place? Not sure if the tourist atmosphere in Grindelwald will be too much or Wengen will be too quiet. More research to do before I decide.
3. Lucern, 2 nights. Thinking of doing the boat trip to Fluelen or trip to Rigi Kulm. Is 2 nights enough here?
4. Chur, 1 night, catching Bernina Express line.
5. Poschiavo or Le Prese, 1 night. Is this a stop on the Bernina line with easy transfer for 1 night? The reason for stopping for the night is so we don't have a long day on the train from Chur to Tirano 4+ hrs and then bus to Lugano 3+ hrs. I had initally thought to overnight in Tirano, but not sure it is the best option.
6. Lugano, 2 nights using Bernina bus from Tirano. How is it getting from bus in Lugano to accomadation near the lake? Any suggestions on where to stay in Lugano? Is it reccomended to go to Lake Como instead? We were in Limone Italy a few years ago and fell in love with Lake Guarda. I picked Lugano because of the Bernina bus and then easy on to Milan. Is this area any comparison with the look and feel of Lake Guarda?
7. Train to Milan and onward to somewhere in Italy. Not yet planned.
A few notes. We are up to easy hikes, but limited with husbands bad knees. We are both avid amatuer photograhers and love to stroll through quaint villages. Would love to see a castle, but not sure they are accessible with out itinerary? We want to get a sampling of the alps, alpine villages and the gorgeous scenery.
kja, I had read your trip report, and only wish we still had the energy to move at that pace, but your trip sounded fantastic.
Thanks again for all the help so far. I have lots of planning to do and am sure I will be back with more questions.
Jan
Apr 27th, 2019, 05:54 AM
#9
Does it have enough grocery stores, restaurants and activity? Will accomodations be priced equally in both place? Not sure if the tourist atmosphere in Grindelwald will be too much or Wengen will be too quiet. More research to do before I decide.
How many grocery stores does one need for a visit of three nights? There's a Coop near the train station and a green grocer a bit further up. Most restaurants are in hotels. Most hotels offer full board (lunch and dinner) if you're so inclined. This can be a very good deal, as Switzerland is expensive. There are a handful of bars, a bakery, and various other small shops. I sincerely doubt Wengen will be very quiet in the middle of the summer, but it will certainly be quieter than Grindelwald, which is a very good thing IMO.
I can highly recommend Hotel Belluvue in Wengen. You can either walk from the train station, or the owners will come to collect you (there are some vehicles in Wengen - electric I believe - even though it's considered car-free).
I've not found accommodation prices to be much different from village to village, but as it's high season, they will be priced accordingly.
Yes, there is plenty to do from Wengen. The Mannlichen cable car is right in Wengen. There are several shortish walks right from town. The train to Jungfrau goes right through Wengen. You can easily get to Murren from Wengen to visit the Schilthorn. Lauterbrunnen is the village right below Wengen. You can get anywhere in the BO easily from Lauterbrunnen.
Believe me, there's much, much more to do than you have time for.
How many grocery stores does one need for a visit of three nights? There's a Coop near the train station and a green grocer a bit further up. Most restaurants are in hotels. Most hotels offer full board (lunch and dinner) if you're so inclined. This can be a very good deal, as Switzerland is expensive. There are a handful of bars, a bakery, and various other small shops. I sincerely doubt Wengen will be very quiet in the middle of the summer, but it will certainly be quieter than Grindelwald, which is a very good thing IMO.
I can highly recommend Hotel Belluvue in Wengen. You can either walk from the train station, or the owners will come to collect you (there are some vehicles in Wengen - electric I believe - even though it's considered car-free).
I've not found accommodation prices to be much different from village to village, but as it's high season, they will be priced accordingly.
Yes, there is plenty to do from Wengen. The Mannlichen cable car is right in Wengen. There are several shortish walks right from town. The train to Jungfrau goes right through Wengen. You can easily get to Murren from Wengen to visit the Schilthorn. Lauterbrunnen is the village right below Wengen. You can get anywhere in the BO easily from Lauterbrunnen.
Believe me, there's much, much more to do than you have time for.
Last edited by Melnq8; Apr 27th, 2019 at 05:59 AM.
Apr 27th, 2019, 06:42 AM
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AMSTERDAM - SWITZERLAND
by plane:
you may fly with Easyjet or KLM to Basel or to Zurich. Both airports are equally convenient if you want ot proceed by train to Lucerne or Interlaken.
by train:
you may go by ICE trains along the high speed line in 7-8 hrs from Amsterdam to Basel. Web fares start at 40 EUR/pax.
If you want to travel along the Rhine river, you will have to leave Amsterdam at 8.08 and to change at Duisburg to a EC train to Cologne - Koblenz - Mainz - Basel ar 15.35.
If you really want to enjoy your Rhine river experience, leave Amsterdam at 8.08 up to Cologne, change there to a local tain to Boppard ar 12.44 and board a Rhine river boat Boppard dp 14.00 - Mainz ar 20.30.
Enjoy the medieval city of Mainz, sleep there and go on the next day at 10.42 by direct train to Interlaken ar 15.57
by plane:
you may fly with Easyjet or KLM to Basel or to Zurich. Both airports are equally convenient if you want ot proceed by train to Lucerne or Interlaken.
by train:
you may go by ICE trains along the high speed line in 7-8 hrs from Amsterdam to Basel. Web fares start at 40 EUR/pax.
If you want to travel along the Rhine river, you will have to leave Amsterdam at 8.08 and to change at Duisburg to a EC train to Cologne - Koblenz - Mainz - Basel ar 15.35.
If you really want to enjoy your Rhine river experience, leave Amsterdam at 8.08 up to Cologne, change there to a local tain to Boppard ar 12.44 and board a Rhine river boat Boppard dp 14.00 - Mainz ar 20.30.
Enjoy the medieval city of Mainz, sleep there and go on the next day at 10.42 by direct train to Interlaken ar 15.57
Last edited by neckervd; Apr 27th, 2019 at 06:44 AM.
Apr 27th, 2019, 07:04 AM
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INTERLAKEN - BERNINA EXPRESS
Most scenic itinerary:
Lucerne dp 8.06 or Interlaken dp 8.33 by train to Meiringen. Meiringen dp 9.25 by Swiss Post Bus to Grimsel Pass (40 min stop) - Nufenen Pass (15 min stop) - Airolo (lunch stop) - Gotthhard Pass (15 min stop) - Andermatt ar 15.23. Andermatt dp 15.54 by Glacier Express to St. Moritz ar 20.58.
Spend a few days around St. Moritz (Sills Maria, Pontresina or so).
After that, leave St. Moritz at 9.39 by Bernina Express to Tirano and by connecting train to Varenna/Lake Como ar 13.36. Stay either there or continue by boat to Menaggio and by local bus to Lugano.
Trains from Varenna to Milan every 1-2 hrs, 1 hr journey.
Most scenic itinerary:
Lucerne dp 8.06 or Interlaken dp 8.33 by train to Meiringen. Meiringen dp 9.25 by Swiss Post Bus to Grimsel Pass (40 min stop) - Nufenen Pass (15 min stop) - Airolo (lunch stop) - Gotthhard Pass (15 min stop) - Andermatt ar 15.23. Andermatt dp 15.54 by Glacier Express to St. Moritz ar 20.58.
Spend a few days around St. Moritz (Sills Maria, Pontresina or so).
After that, leave St. Moritz at 9.39 by Bernina Express to Tirano and by connecting train to Varenna/Lake Como ar 13.36. Stay either there or continue by boat to Menaggio and by local bus to Lugano.
Trains from Varenna to Milan every 1-2 hrs, 1 hr journey.
Apr 27th, 2019, 11:29 AM
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neckervd, I had never considered doing a boat along the Rhine, but I may just have to check out the prospect of doing that. I will see what the additional cost would be to incorporate that into the trip instead of flying or just train. Thanks for the suggestion.
Jan
Jan
Apr 27th, 2019, 03:50 PM
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Lugano train station downhill to lake - probably abut a mile or tad more - buses or taxis. To me Lake Lugano does not compare to Lake Como or Garda - it's nice but my own preference would be Lake Como - and that Bernina bus actually stops at Mennagio I believe on Lake Como - it has to go by Lake Como to get to Lugano. Just did no seem to be much along Lake Lugano shores - I took boats all over once - the biggest site seems to be some Italian enclave where there is a casino. And Italy is much cheaper than Switzerland.
Apr 27th, 2019, 04:12 PM
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There's an interesting castle in Locarno and there are 3 in Bellinzona, which you could possibly reach from Lugano.
But I don't think you have the time.
As I said upthread, your plan is NOT leisurely IMO.
Apr 28th, 2019, 12:13 AM
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2) Wengen and Grindelwald basically offer the same facilities, only Grindelwald has more of the same (including people.) I never felt bored in Wengen. My guess is that you will be busy elsewhere (excursions) during the days anyway. And there are enough hotels with restaurants and bars in Wengen for the evening.
3) A stroll through the old town of Lucerne is a *must* (half day or just two hours if you are quick), use the full day for a boat trip to Vitznau and cog-train up to Rigi-Kulm. Several options for short hikes there. You might want to take the cable car down to Weggis from Rigi-Kaltbad e.g.
4) Don't dismiss Chur easily. It has plenty to see and do. The hiking options aside that swandav mentioned (cable car to Brambrüesch e.g.), it has a very nice old town, parish church St. Stephan with stained-glass windows by Giacometti, the Romanesque-Gothic cathedral, higher up St. Luzi church with a circular crypt, quite unique. And the museums - history, art, nature e.g. Easy (short) excursions to Via Mala gorge or the Rhine gorge are possible.
5) Please note that the Bernina Express trains stop for unboarding only in Le Prese. No problem, though, as you can take the regular train from there to Tirano next day. (I personally prefer the regular regional trains over the Express anyway.) Le Prese has a very nice hotel right by the lake, but otherwise is really tiny. Poschiavo, however, is a nice small town with Italian ambience. Decent hotels, nice restaurants/bars, cafes, a few sights (museums, churches ...) As for convenience - it's only a few steps from the train stop in Le Prese to the hotel, but a 5 minutes walk from the train station in Poschiavo to the heart of the town with decent hotels. Worth it, though, IMO.
6) Lake Lugano is tiny compared to Lake Garda. Lake Como would probably remember you more of Lake Garda. Also, Lugano is a much bigger town, rather a bustling city compared to any small town at Lake Garda. Why don't you go to Varenna / Lake Como from Tirano?
3) A stroll through the old town of Lucerne is a *must* (half day or just two hours if you are quick), use the full day for a boat trip to Vitznau and cog-train up to Rigi-Kulm. Several options for short hikes there. You might want to take the cable car down to Weggis from Rigi-Kaltbad e.g.
4) Don't dismiss Chur easily. It has plenty to see and do. The hiking options aside that swandav mentioned (cable car to Brambrüesch e.g.), it has a very nice old town, parish church St. Stephan with stained-glass windows by Giacometti, the Romanesque-Gothic cathedral, higher up St. Luzi church with a circular crypt, quite unique. And the museums - history, art, nature e.g. Easy (short) excursions to Via Mala gorge or the Rhine gorge are possible.
5) Please note that the Bernina Express trains stop for unboarding only in Le Prese. No problem, though, as you can take the regular train from there to Tirano next day. (I personally prefer the regular regional trains over the Express anyway.) Le Prese has a very nice hotel right by the lake, but otherwise is really tiny. Poschiavo, however, is a nice small town with Italian ambience. Decent hotels, nice restaurants/bars, cafes, a few sights (museums, churches ...) As for convenience - it's only a few steps from the train stop in Le Prese to the hotel, but a 5 minutes walk from the train station in Poschiavo to the heart of the town with decent hotels. Worth it, though, IMO.
6) Lake Lugano is tiny compared to Lake Garda. Lake Como would probably remember you more of Lake Garda. Also, Lugano is a much bigger town, rather a bustling city compared to any small town at Lake Garda. Why don't you go to Varenna / Lake Como from Tirano?
Apr 28th, 2019, 01:55 AM
#16
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IN ORDER TO MAKE THINGS CLEAR:
" Lugano train station downhill to lake - probably abut a mile or tad more - buses or taxis."
The rope railway from Lugano train station to the medieval city center of Lugano (close to the boat's pier) run every few minutes.
" Bernina bus actually stops at Mennagio"
The Bernina Express bus never stopped at Menaggio.
" along Lake Lugano shores - I took boats all over once - the biggest site seems to be some Italian enclave where there is a casino. And Italy is much cheaper than Switzerland."
The casino of Campione d'Italia is actually closed. This Italian village (the most ugly one along Lake Lugano) lives actually from help from Switzerland.
The most scenic villages along Lake Lugano are Morcote and Gandria (both in Switzerland).
https://www.gettyimages.ch/detail/fo...rafie/73427376
https://www.myswitzerland.com/en-ch/...smugglers.html
BTW: the official currency in Campione d'Italia is the Swiss Franc and prices are as high as in Switzerland..
The biggest Italian places along Lake Lugano are Porto Ceresio, Porlezza and Lavena-Ponte Tresa.
" Lugano train station downhill to lake - probably abut a mile or tad more - buses or taxis."
The rope railway from Lugano train station to the medieval city center of Lugano (close to the boat's pier) run every few minutes.
" Bernina bus actually stops at Mennagio"
The Bernina Express bus never stopped at Menaggio.
" along Lake Lugano shores - I took boats all over once - the biggest site seems to be some Italian enclave where there is a casino. And Italy is much cheaper than Switzerland."
The casino of Campione d'Italia is actually closed. This Italian village (the most ugly one along Lake Lugano) lives actually from help from Switzerland.
The most scenic villages along Lake Lugano are Morcote and Gandria (both in Switzerland).
https://www.gettyimages.ch/detail/fo...rafie/73427376
https://www.myswitzerland.com/en-ch/...smugglers.html
BTW: the official currency in Campione d'Italia is the Swiss Franc and prices are as high as in Switzerland..
The biggest Italian places along Lake Lugano are Porto Ceresio, Porlezza and Lavena-Ponte Tresa.
Apr 28th, 2019, 02:32 AM
#17
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BERNINA EXPRESS:
All Bernina Express trains (running from North to South) stop for unboarding at Alp Grum, Poschiavo, Le Prese and Tirano.
LAKE LUGANO BOAT (from one end to the other):
Ponte Tresa dp 9.45 - Lugano ar 11.40/12.15 - Gandria ar 13.00 (lunch stop) dp 14.55 - Porlezza ar 15.50
LUGANO - STRESA - LOCARNO BY BOAT (not daily)
Lugano dp by boat 8.00 - Ponte Tresa ar 9.40, dp by bus 9.55 - Luino ar 10.17, dp by boat 10.55 - Isola Bella ar 12.50 - Stresa ar 13.00; Stresa dp by boat 15.40 - Isola Bella dp 15.50 - Locarno ar 19.10
All Bernina Express trains (running from North to South) stop for unboarding at Alp Grum, Poschiavo, Le Prese and Tirano.
LAKE LUGANO BOAT (from one end to the other):
Ponte Tresa dp 9.45 - Lugano ar 11.40/12.15 - Gandria ar 13.00 (lunch stop) dp 14.55 - Porlezza ar 15.50
LUGANO - STRESA - LOCARNO BY BOAT (not daily)
Lugano dp by boat 8.00 - Ponte Tresa ar 9.40, dp by bus 9.55 - Luino ar 10.17, dp by boat 10.55 - Isola Bella ar 12.50 - Stresa ar 13.00; Stresa dp by boat 15.40 - Isola Bella dp 15.50 - Locarno ar 19.10
Apr 28th, 2019, 07:09 AM
#18
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I have not yet planned the previous portion of our trip in the Netherlands, so this may change. It seems it is easier to get to Switzerland from Amsterdam and through Germany than anywhere in Belgium, so we will probably use Amsterdam as a base and leave from there to Switzerland. Here is what I have so far.
1. Fly or train/boat trip into Zurich or Basel from Amsterdam. Maybe on to Bernese Oberland area on same day, depending on travel/arrival time at either Basel or Zurich. Need to do more research on a train/float on the Rhine. (it may be worth an extra couple of days to float by the castles in Germany.
2. 4 nights Wengen. I think you guys have convinced me it will be best fit for us.
3. Lucern, 2 nights. Thinking of doing the boat trip to Fluelen or trip to Rigi Kulm.
4. Chur, 1 night, catching Bernina Express line.
5. Poschiavo 1 night.
6. Train to Tirano, then onward to Varenna, or Bellagio. I think this is a better fit for us than Lugano.
7. Train to Milan and onward to somewhere in Italy. Not yet planned.
kja, I know this is not leisurely. Perhaps I misspoke when I said that's what we wanted. We are not the sit around and admire the scenery for hours type. We want to go as long as our stamina holds out. We will rest when our vacation is over.
I have made note of all the suggestions and will be incorporating most of them into our plans.
Thanks,
Jan
1. Fly or train/boat trip into Zurich or Basel from Amsterdam. Maybe on to Bernese Oberland area on same day, depending on travel/arrival time at either Basel or Zurich. Need to do more research on a train/float on the Rhine. (it may be worth an extra couple of days to float by the castles in Germany.
2. 4 nights Wengen. I think you guys have convinced me it will be best fit for us.
3. Lucern, 2 nights. Thinking of doing the boat trip to Fluelen or trip to Rigi Kulm.
4. Chur, 1 night, catching Bernina Express line.
5. Poschiavo 1 night.
6. Train to Tirano, then onward to Varenna, or Bellagio. I think this is a better fit for us than Lugano.
7. Train to Milan and onward to somewhere in Italy. Not yet planned.
kja, I know this is not leisurely. Perhaps I misspoke when I said that's what we wanted. We are not the sit around and admire the scenery for hours type. We want to go as long as our stamina holds out. We will rest when our vacation is over.
I have made note of all the suggestions and will be incorporating most of them into our plans.
Thanks,
Jan
