Advice for ~5 week France and Italy Itinerary
Hi everyone,
My girlfriend and I have been living in Barcelona for the last few months, and are now going to be travelling through France and Italy for about 5 weeks starting on July 1, before returning home to Canada. We're in our mid 30s, hope to keep costs as low as possible (ideally 60-90 euro per night for accommodation for both of us), and prefer a more relaxed pace of travel (so we will prioritize more time in each place over seeing more places). We're into art and architecture, good food, and also like getting into nature for hikes and things like that. We fly out to Paris on July 1 and will be there for 7 nights. So far, that's the only part of our trip that's booked, with the rest of it being flexible as we go along. I've included our draft itinerary below. We'd welcome any thoughts on anything we should add, remove, or any other suggestions, such as ordering things differently. We're also trying to decide whether to add either Dijon or Bordeaux to our France itinerary (I was thinking right after Paris) and whether we should include Venice and/or Bolonia in our Italy itinerary (both are there for now, but we're unsure whether to keep them). For our visit to the Marseilles region, we're thinking of staying in Arles, St Remy de Provence, or L'Isle sur la Sorgue, so we'd also welcome any thoughts on which of those would be the best as a base for seeing the region. For now we've included a visit down to the Naples region to see Pompeii, and are thinking that we'd base ourselves in Sorrento, but would welcome any other suggestions for the region. Finally, we've left a bunch of buffer days at the end to give us some flexibility as we move through France and Italy, and might also try adding in a visit to Berlin or Morocco during that time. Thanks in advance for any feedback! July 1 IN to Paris July 2 Paris July 3 Paris July 4 Paris July 5 Paris July 6 Paris July 7 Paris July 8 PARIS OUT to Marseilles/Arles/St Remy/L'Isle July 9 M/A/S/L July 10 M/A/S/L July 11 M/A/S/L July 12 M/A/S/L OUT to Nice July 13 Nice July 14 Nice OUT to Cinque Terre July 15 Cinque Terre July 16 Cinque Terre July 17 Cinque Terre July 18 Cinque Terre OUT to Venice July 19 Venice July 20 Venice OUT to Bolonia July 21 Bolonia July 22 Bolonia OUT to Florence July 23 Florence July 24 Florence July 25 Florence OUT to Rome July 26 Rome July 27 Rome July 28 Rome July 29 Rome July 30 Rome July 31 Rome OUT to Naples Area August 1 Naples/Sorrento/Pompeii August 2 Naples/Sorrento/Pompeii August 3 Naples/Sorrento/Pompeii OUT August 4 BERLIN/MOROCCO/BUFFER August 5 August 6 August 7 August 8 August 9 August 10 August 11 August 12 August 13 August 14 August 15 Flight home |
What will you do for all those days in CT - uness inveterate hikers a few days would be enough plus those 5 Lands are super mobbed in July. I'd add more days to Amalfi area or Venice. Anyway you are going by train - except flying I presume to Paris as it's still a long 6-hour train ride even with direct TGV trains. Anyway booking trains well in advance can yield deep discounted fares - www.seat61.com is the source for advice on doing just that and for general train info in case you have not ridden trains much check also BETS-European Rail Experts and www.ricksteves.com.
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Given that you are into art and architecture, I would suggest that your time in Venice and Florence is surpassingly limited.
And depending on what you want to see, just 2 or 3 days for Naples / Pompeii could be a week too little.... BTW, I love that you have chosen to give yourselves time for these places! |
Originally Posted by kja
(Post 16753773)
Given that you are into art and architecture, I would suggest that your time in Venice and Florence is surpassingly limited.
Marseilles is on the coast, Arles/St Remy/L'Isle are inland, in what I think of as Provence. Though strictly speaking Provence includes Marseilles and the southeast coast. |
That's a horrible, horrible time of year to head to the Cinque Terre. Have you googled for actual real-time photos of what the place looks like with the nose-to-nose crowds there that time of year? A "relaxed pace of travel" and Cinque Terre in July are not compatible. Given your interests as stated, your time in Venice, Florence, Naples, and Pompei seems paltry. Same for Nice and environs. Morocco is stultifyingly broiling, breathless, at that time of year.
Yes, I would add Bordeaux to your list, and instead of Morocco some of the towns south, or north, of it, (it being Bordeaux) on the Atlantic, like La Mimizan, St-Jean-de-Luz, Bayonne, Hendaye, Donostia, Bilbao, etc., where at least you'll be able to catch a breath of air and enjoy the sea. They'll be hot and crowded, but not unbearable. Instead of Bologna, why not the Italian lakes? Overall, you seem to have chosen incredibly hot and crowded venues that don't particularly mesh with your stated interests. If it were a spring or fall trip it might work better (though still falls short on the art and architecture fronts), but for July and August it's hardly appealing. |
Yes CTerre in Julyis mobbed- even when I've been there in October the towns were simply too mobbed to enjoy - and getting there from Nice is a long train ride - and yes Venice and other places St-Cirq mentions - crowded places too but not so concentrated as in those small 5 villages. Curious as to what you were planning to do those several days there - even hiking trails are mobbed - at least main one between the 5 Lands and some trails can always be closed because of wash-outs. Yes reconsider 5 Terre at that time of year especially - Genoa is a historic old port town closer to Nice that would make a sweet first stop from Nice - history and architecture everywhere and could day trip by train to Cnque Terre too just to see it.
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If you consider alternatives to the Cinque Terre for hiking, note that there are some great hikes on the Amalfi Coast and Capri....
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We still do not know what OP had planned for those days in CT - could be viable only IMO if hiking the various trails besides the beaten main one but if not...
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As people wrote, the Cinque Terre is mobbed -- and reportedly the Via dell'Amore is still closed, years after the landslide. It's not somewhere you'd want to spend that much time, as the villages will be packed. I'd drop it, add a little time to the Cote d'Azur and to Florence (so you can go into the countryside). And you are in western Provence at the peak time, you should at least venture a half day to really see the lavender in full bloom and hike among the hills -- but public transport options can be limiting to the Luberon or Valensole plateau. Rather than Dijon, go to Beaune and perhaps even Lyon (for the food).
Emilia-Romagna and Bologna is a wonderful food region but it's best taken at a slower pace. Don't overlook Piemonte and Torino, for the food and the wine. The Lakes region is very nice, but Switzerland and the Jungfrau are even better in late July. |
People often say they are into architecture, when they maybe mean just looking at buildings. However, if you are interested in actual architecture, architectural practice, concepts and discipline, you might consider giving yourself enough time in Venice to take in the Architecture Biennale.
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>> take in the Architecture Biennale<<
Huge (HUGE) ditto. I was only able to spend half a day there in 2014 and I can't go this year, so in 2020 I hope to return and devote 2 or 3 full days just for Biennale exhibits |
Hi Janis I made it to the Archi Biennale in 2016, there is a sort of trip report here. https://www.fodors.com/community/eur...rt-of-1132533/
And September this year will see me there again. The Vatican has built ten little chapels on San Giorgio, with some top notch architects doing the design. Should be good |
Just a few thoughts:
Ciao - Dorm |
Without a plan you cannot book rooms, and at those times most of the rooms will have gone.
If I was planning this I would go to some quieter places and firm up soon, but hey you are where you are. Look at smaller towns if nothing else. |
Hi all,
First off, thanks very much for the abundance of helpful advice and suggestions! We realize that we’ll be travelling through France and Italy at a very far from ideal time of year, but since we’re already in Barcelona, have 6 weeks of free time, and have not travelled through France or Italy (other than Paris), we’d like to see what we can, since it’s not often that we get to Europe. We we will definitely drop our time in CT, if not drop it all together based on your feedback, and will definitely try and get to the Venice Biennale. Again, thanks to all, and I’m glad I posted here, because I had the sense that we didn’t know what we were doing, and clearly I was right :) |
Whatver you miss in CT will be more than made up in Amalfi towns whch though also crowded have much more space and arguable a more dramatic coast. Add a few days to Florence area and do easy day rips by bus or train - Siena and others or to Pisa for Leaning Tower or even as I did once one to CT- walking the 7-mile trail between them.
Nice is also a great base with a plethora of easy day rips by bus or train - including some really neat coastaal walking paths. |
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