Artsfan2

I would appreciate thoughts and suggestions for our itinerary. We are middle-aged frequent travellers and are planning a trip to Spain in April. As we will be so close to Morocco it seems it would be a shame not to go for a few days. We like to be busy - and like culture, music, architecture, history and walking through interesting and unique places. We will use a combination of public transit and a rented car.
I'm thinking it might make sense to fly to Marrakesh between Barcelona and Madrid. (It seemed that flights from Malaga return to Madrid before going to Marrakesh.) Is there another routing that makes more sense? Right now I am thinking:
1.Barcelona
2. Barcelona
3. Barcelona
4. Barcelona
5. Marrakesh
6. Marrakesh
7. Marrakesh
8. Marrakesh
9. Madrid
10. Madrid - possible day trip El escorial
11. Madrid - day trip Segovia
12. Madrid - dat trip Toledo
13.Madrid
14.Cordoba
15.Sevilla
16. Sevilla
17.Sevilla
18.Arcos
19.Ronda
20.Ronda
21.Granada
22. Granada
23. Malaga or Madrid for return flight.

Thanks in advance for your advice.

qwovadis

seat61.com/morocco

Train my fav way to go lots cheaper price point

more scenic...

visitmorocco.com virtualtourist.com good local posting

Review consular advisories stay out of tourist soft

targets in the south radicals just blew a cafe up there...

quotewright.com trip cover wise...

Make more time for Maroc if you can it is awesome.

Have fun!

joannay

You could fly, as you now have it, or take a ferry across at the end of your itinerary when you'll be in the south of Spain. It depends on if you'd like to go to Marrakech or possibly Tangier by ferry and on to Fes by train. I personally like the ferry and train but I would choose to stay for the 4 days in either Marrakech or the north, not try to do both.

http://www.andalucia.com/travel/ferry/home.htm

bilboburgler

Marrakech has more than enough to do for 3 to 4 days without heading out of the city. In fact I can spend weeks on end in the city. Not only do you have an arabic city, but also a blending with french culture of the 1950s ( i tend to speak french there but you will find the guys in the souks will speak english pretty well) and a load of other religions and cultures.

Fly to the airport, then you need to chose a hotel, choice is basically an old house in the old city and an international one in the the international quarter. Basically a price thing as the international will be cheaper but you need to take a taxis or walk to town.

You will get ripped off by the taxis (haggle before you get in) at the airport (nice new building) you find the taxis right in front of you offering 400DHM to the city, good haggling will get it for 125 and I think the bus (to the far left) is something like 25 DH (it is writen up on a large poster.)

Most people fall for the taxi price and 400DHM is not a lot of real money but it lets you get up to speed with how life is in the souk ( offer a quarter)

Prices in restaurants are normally written on menus so haggling not done though of course there is a locals price and a tourist price. There are two large non-haggling buildings in town to let you buy nice linens, wood carving, weird oils, leather goods and a load of tat. Ask at your total for a map which will show you this plus all the other sites

The main square has some good restaurants around it and in the centre, snakes, monkeys and weird people. I'm generally against monkeys being dragged aorund and I have snake phobia so I don't go in the centre.

Issues to the south are miles away (over a mountain range or possibly 2) and is part of another political problem not the arab spring.

Marrahech is by far the nicest city (Rabat, Essouira and Taroudant come close seconds) Tangier and Cassablanca not worth the time unless you like dirty industrial towns

bilboburgler

Ask at your Hotal (sorry not total) for a map which will show you this plus all the other sites

The bomb near the old cafe de paris is, I think a one off, and recent calming measures by the king seems to have calmed the souk down.

joannay

I agree that Casablanca is not particularly interesting. But after visiting the country for years and dismissing the possibility that Tangier was worth seeing, as one hears so often, I finally went and liked it very much. I like the location on the water, the medina on a hill and views it affords and the general ambiance. Tangier combined with Fes, also a hilly medina, would make a very nice introduction to the country. I like Marrakech too and have spent more time there than anywhere and 4 days would be nice. But do a bit of reading before you decide and don't buy the tale that Tangier is not worth visiting.

Cowboy1968

Aside from the "Morocco problem" I think you move to much around in Andalucia. If those different towns you list in your itinerary mean that you plan to change places/hotels each time. For example, Arcos is very close to Sevilla. And Córdoba is just a short train ride from Sevilla.
You will loose less time checking in/out of hotels, dragging luggage if you base yourself in Sevilla for the whole time.

If you decide to leave from Madrid, I would group all Madrid days at the end. So you don't have to waste two 1/2 days to travel to the same destination.

joannay

BTW, I don't believe the taxi fares from the Marrakech airport are anywhere near as much as those mentioned above. Wondering about those figures I checked several websites and they all pretty much agree. This from Wikitravel: "...most petit taxi drivers have agreed among themselves to an artificially high rate to or from the airport - most will quote you Dh 80 each way, and half again that much at night. You should try to pay no more than Dh 100 from the airport to the center of the city for a petit taxi, depending on the time of day"

bilboburgler

joannay, we are agreed then that 80 to 125 DHM is the right fee.

kimhe

Sounds like a great plan. As Cowboy1968 says, Córdoba and Arcos are close to Sevilla. But Córdoba is also on the high speed train line from Madrid to Sevilla. If you hop off for a night in Córdoba, you can catch the train to Sevilla the next day after lunch and be there in 50 minutes. Buy tickets in advance at renfe.com to save lots of money, they will be more than double the price if bought on the station.

Also note that Holy Week/Semana Santa is celebrated from March 30th to April 8. A huge event all over Spain, especially in the South where devotion and fiesta go especially close hand in hand.

From the 24th of April, Sevilla is again turned upside down for the Feria de Abril (until Sunday the 29th.). Could be great fun! http://www.exploreseville.com/events/feriadeabril.htm

Málaga makes much sense for the return flight after having been in Granada. Perhaps take one day off somewhere and add to Málaga. Would really be sad to miss a night out in this fabulous city before you fly home: Málaga is genuine Andalucian atmosphere, great sights, tapas bars, restaurants and perhaps me favourite city in the South after many years of intesive travelling in the region. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/ci...-treasure.html

Some fresh Córdoba impressions:

The "other" Córdoba around Plaza de las Tendillas, the Plaza Mayor-like Plaza de la Corredera, the Roman ruins etc can be highly recommended. All very close to the main tourist attractions but a totally different and more local atmosphere. Bustling outdoor cafés long into the night.

Several fine bodegas/tabernas in this area. Here you'll find great local places on every corner. Just had some excellent meals in a couple of them. Taberna Salinas comes recommended in the Michelin guide, and we were perfectly happy after two raciones, a bottle of wine and a couple of brandys for some 35€. http://www.tabernasalinas.com/

Bar Santos in Calle Magistral González Francés, 3 along the eastern side of the Mezquita is a laid-back and small respite in this heavily touristy area. Wonderful Jamón Ibérico.

Felt immediately at home in Plaza de las Tendillas. The thousands of people gathering here for the midnight eating of the grapes on New Years eve is traditionally directly televised on national tv. The clock on Plaza de las Tendillas has got no bells. Since 1961 the hours has been chimed in by recorded flamenco chords from the guitarist Juanito Serrano. Great atmospehere and good spirit well into the small hours, at least in the week-ends. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fexMbX4EsRE&NR=1

We lived in modern Hotel Córdoba Centro, just excellent, some 300 meters north of the Mezquita, next door to the main Tendillas Plaza. Some 60€ for a double. http://www.booking.com/hotel/es/cord...?rid=702348143

Artsfan2

Thanks for your suggestions and I'm making some changes to the Spain itinerary. Also, I think I might be leaning toward taking the ferry to Tangiers and train to Fes. Does it tend to be a rough ferry ride? - I get motion sick very easily!

nytraveler

I agree that you are moving around too much in Andalusia. If you have a car some of the distances are quite small - and some places - like Ronda - are easy to do as a day trip - rather than witch hotels so many times.

As for train versus car - we have done car twice - and so much enjoyed the opportunity to stop and see things whenever we wanted - versus seeing something interesting pass by out of a train window.

Artsfan2

Would you suggest then that instead of the night in Arcos we spend 3 nights in Ronda? - or is that too much?

joannay

Artsfan2, I too am prone to motion sickness but had no problem on the Tangier-Tarifa ferry, there and back. I suggest you stay in Tangier 1 night, to Fes on the train for 2 nights then back to Tangier for the last night before returning on the ferry. If you stay the same place both nights in Tangier, which is what I did before and after the crossing although for more nights, it won't seem like too much moving around.

Here's the Moroccan train website to play with:
http://www.oncf.ma/index_en.aspx (Tanger = Tangier)

bilboburgler

This may interest you
http://blog.travelpod.com/travel-blo...3876/tpod.html

kimhe

Ronda is nice and pictoresque, but I would much rather have spent an extra day in vibrant and genuine Málaga city than in quite touristy Ronda. Two-three nights in Ronda and none in Málaga makes no sense to me.

Artsfan2

Thanks for all of your suggestions. I have rejigged somewhat but am still having trouble with Andalucia. Would it make sense to stay an extra night in Tarifa rather than Cadiz or Jerez? We are also planning to travel primarily by train but rent a car for Andalucia. Should we rent from Sevilla on or for small portions?
While I would like to go to Fes the 5 hour train ride has made me remove it from the itinerary.

1 Barcelona
2 Barcelona
3 Barcelona
4 Barcelona
5 Madrid
6 Madrid
7 Madrid
8 Madrid
9 Madrid
10 Madrid
11 Cordoba
12 Sevilla
13 Sevilla
14 Sevilla
15 Jereze de La Frontera/Cadiz
16 Tarifa
17 Tangier
18 Tarifa
19 Pueblos Blancos/Ronda
20 Ronda
21 Granada
22 Granada
23 Malaga
24 fly home

Any thoughts? We can stay for a day or two longer if it improves the itinerary.
Thanks!

joannay

I'm sorry to see you've all but eliminated Morocco. I wouldn't bother going to Tangier for just a day as you'll likely fall into all the stereotypical beginner pitfalls of those who've also been for a day and say how much they hate Tangier. Save yourself the bother. And if you decide to not go to Tangier then there are more interesting places in Spain than Tarifa. Possibly more time between Sevilla & Granada in the smaller places like Iznajar and Antequera.

kimhe

Antequera (pop. 40 000) is a great idea. Almost right in the middle of the Sevilla, Córdoba, Granada and Málaga rectangle, hence known as "the heart of Andalucía". Here you'll find the famous dolmens (ancient burial chambers, some 5000 years old), Roman baths, a Moorish Castle, Gothic churches, Renaissance fountains and baroque bell towers. Antequera was the first of the Granada emirate towns to fall to the Christians in 1410.
http://www.andaluciacoastandcountry.com/antequera.html
http://www.iznajarvillas.com/antequera.htm

The article "A Tapas Tour of Antequera" should give you some ideas of great places to eat. I've lived in Hotel Castilla and can recommend the adjoining bar/restaurant mentioned in the article.
http://www.andaluciacoastandcountry.com/tapaspain.html

Egbert

Looks good, I like to end my trip in Madrid especially if you fly out of there. 6 nights in Madrid is one or two too many unless yuou're planning daytrips to toledo or Segovia. 4 nights in Seville is better. 2 in Cordoba, 2 in Malaga, one in Ronda is my preference. After having been to Morroco twice I couldn't imagine taking time out of a trip to Spain to go there. If you must, Marrakesh and Essouira are the places to go. Many people find a night camping outside of Marrakesh to be unforgettable. I like 2 nights in Cadiz better than Tarifa. All in all it looks good though.