A thought for Russia
 

My heart goes out to all those parents, children and citizens affected by the terrible tragedy unfolding in Beslan.

Well said. Terrorism, we must remember, is rampant. So many innocents in this situation are affected, it's really awful.

BC

hanl, outstanding thought. This killing of innocents has got to stop!

The murder of children. It is unspeakably evil.

My heart goes out to those who had to endure this tragedy and for the loved ones of the people who were murdered.

My heart goes out to the horrified, innocent children and parents of this ordeal, along with the other citizens. It is absolutely awful.

My husband and I were just saying that there isn't a word to describe how evil these terrorists are.

And what did they think they would accomplish for their "cause?" What an awful day for everyone in that community.

What an awful day and event for not only that community, but for all Russians, and for everyone regardless of Nationality!

Nothing can justify terrorism.

Whatever happened to you or your loved ones or your country, it will never be okay to terrorize innocent people.

I can't understand why people think violence will solve anything.

I wish every parent in the world made sure their children understand this and when these children grow up we will live in a peaceful society.

I too have been horrified by the actions of those thugs. Its hard enough to deal with beheadings of innocent adults, but when children are involved it takes it to a new level. What is happening to/in Russia? What with this school thing, bus bombs, and the two airplanes a week or so ago. Even the Chechnian (sp?) people are demonstrating to distance themselves from these @$#@%&$#*s!! My fear is that we will see so much of this as to become jaded or complacent. While we used to react, we now hardly notice another Israel or Palestine bombing.
Shrink

My thoughts for the families of the thousands of Chechnian victims killed by the Russian army, and also for the Russian victims of today.

Hopefully something good will ultimately come out of this tragedy maybe this will make Chechnya independance more likely if the Russians are finally fed up with all this mess they started.

What kind of people TARGET a school, knowing that the greatest loss of life, the most injured and traumatized, will be children? This really is the face of evil.

"Hopefully something good will ultimately come out of this tragedy maybe this will make Chechnya independance more likely if the Russians are finally fed up with all this mess they started."

You sentiment right there expressed why someone would actually think that holding a school hostage would be a smart tactic.

The reality is that usually that kind of tactic usually only ups the ante. There is simply no way Russia now backs down. If anything, it will increase Putin's resolve and give him a mandate to be even more heavy handed.

The fallacy of the terrorist viewpoint is that rarely do they achieve anything based on their terrorism. What they eventually wind up fighting for is simply the terror - the cause often gets forgotten.

I agree with Ryan. If anyone is successful using terrorism then that only gives reason for more people to try it as a way to achieve their cause.

I don't think terrorists are ever very successful, but that doesn't stop people from doing it again and again...

They don't care who they kill. They may have killed a future Nobel Peace Prize winner or a future Einstein for all we know.

But the most important point is that people exposed to violence are more prone to violence themselves. It's a vicious cycle.

Absolutely horrible. What puzzles me is that the terrorists apparently had no exit plan, and made no real demands. They were not even negotiating. What's the point? Killing children just to get your cause on the front page? Rather than thinking the Russians would be best off getting out of Chechnia, this makes you think that an independent Chechnia, made up of these kind of people, is something that no-one would wish for.

"Hopefully something good will ultimately come out of this tragedy ..."

<b> Nothing good can ever come out of killing innocent babies. If these people get one positive result from actions such as these, then there will just be more terrorists, lined up , ready to do more inhuman acts of violence. There is no excuse in the world for anyone who does something like this.

</b>

Hundred of thousands of innocent japanese men, women and children have been killed in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, supposedly to shorten the WWII and thus ultimately save more American and Japanese lives.

The same logic could apply here, although I'm not quite sure of the motives of the chechnian terrorists.

So please stop with the one-sided moralism. Let's look at the bigger picture. War is always ugly, whoever kills or get killed.

Yes, war is always ugly. Bombing a city is horrendous. But <b>deliberately targeting</b> children is far uglier. It demonstrates a cynicism and thirst for cruelty that is beyond my comprehension.

tomato, take a hike with that twisted logic of yours. Terrorists have no &quot;bigger picture&quot;!

The only thing good that could come out of this despicable violence is that it will cause people around the terrorists to say, &quot;No more!&quot; Too many people are turning a blind eye, and saying &quot;anything for the cause&quot;, whatever that cause may be. I pray that perhaps this will be the catalyst for a change in those people's hearts, and that they will have the courage and the moral integrity to stand up to the evil.

actually Marylyn,I think the bombing of Hyroshima is comparable or even more sinister than this Russian incident. 1.the atom bomb not only exterminated the cities population it continues to affect the outlying suburbs survivors children to this day 2.Truman didnt warn the Japanese what was going to happen or explain that surrender would avoid atomic bombing the reason being that by August the japanese were on the virge of surrender anyway, Truman needed an opportunity to use the bomb on a target to tell the Russians,by then only a few dozen km away from Japan, how powerful the US was. 100,000 ppl sacrificed just for a demonstration. Dresden was razed for a similar reason, to warn the approaching Russians to keep their distance.By 1944 Dresden had no strategic value as a target whatsoever.Churchill knew this but authorised the strike.

So in a way we are all the decendants of evil or people who voted for evil.

Sam

While I don't categorically defend the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings, there was/is a line of thinking that said those acts drastically shortened the war, and ultimately saved more lives. A reasonable trade-off? I honestly do not know - no one will ever be able to know what would have happened otherwise, but I do believe that the men who planned and carried-out those missions had precisely that as their goal - ending the war.

In a case like this, I firmly believe the goal is nothing more than an attempt to blindly force a political agenda upon others, and damn the consequences. Pure evil - I would not dignify such bloodthirsty, rabid barbarians by calling them animals ... that would be too much of an insult to the animals.

My sincere thoughts and sympathies to the poor folks who were victimized by these savages.

Sam, I'm less interested in how anybody's ancestors behaved (or voted) than I am in how they act themselves.

It is an interesting moral question you raise, whether one sort of killing can be &quot;better&quot; than another. Traditionally our society has said it is ok to kill during war. This does lead to the deaths of many innocent people who are not official combatants.

But I cannot think of any society or religion, under any circumstances, that would sanction the deliberate murder of children. It is inherently abhorrent.

&gt;But I cannot think of any society or &gt;religion, under any circumstances, &gt;that would sanction the deliberate &gt;murder of children. It is inherently &gt;abhorrent.
How about US,UK?
Germany publicly repents for the wrongdoings of the nazis but the US &amp; British governments have never apologised for Atomic bombing of Hyroshima,or Firebombing of Dresden.Nor have their peoples ever pressured government to apologize or abhore these events.Russian population sanction the invasion and killing in Chechnya to have cheap oil.

The problem is the US/British/Russian government presents a more rosy version of what happens &amp; most people swallow this version hook,bait &amp; sinker.Very few take the time to read the information available in books/internet on what the human cost really was.

I think everybody who posted on this thread agrees that what happened in russia today was a horrible tragedy.what is being argued is that the thousands of chechnyans civilians killed,like those of Dresden, are rarely mentioned or given thought cause they were killed 'in a war',and so that makes it 'okay' by our societies.

Sam

I cannot understand how a human being could be so evil as to murder an innocent child in cold blood, it breaks my heart. My deepest sympathies to our friends in Russia.

Sam, I am not making light of the deaths of innocent civilians, including children, in the circumstances you have mentioned. All I am saying is that these terrorists could have taken a factory, a government building, or a department store, but they chose to take a school filled with children.

Why? To inflict the most pain on their enemy? To show that their hatred knows no bounds? To impress on the world that there is nothing beyond the pale for them, no action too repulsive in service to their cause?

sam, you trying to equate the USA to the filthy scum that killed these innocent russian kids is sick. Go peddle your silly crap someplace else.

degas, if you were president in 1945 would you have taken the decision to use the atomic bomb on the Japanese city of Hiroshima?

Sam

I am horrified and sickened by the actions of a radical few in Russia. Remember how it felt in the US after 9/11 when the majority of the world flew their flags at half staff and showed us their support? Why have we not done that to show our support and concern for the Russian people? It was not done when they lost two planes full of people and now 100s of children have perished senselessly... and still we do not fly our flags at half staff. :sigh: It is such a minor thing to do. It is always the feeling of being powerless to help that is the worst in these situations. I want to help but all I have are prayers and a symbolic show of support. Thank you, hanl, for starting this thread.

Diane

sam, we can only ignor your moral obtuseness. You are way beyond reason...do you think that perhaps, after we had sacrificed 100s of thousands of American lives to WWII, that we were just a little angry, and a little eager to end all the killing? We tried isolationism, and then we were brought in to a war that we did not want w/ Pearl Harbor. We gave our all...we thought we should not sacrifice 1 more American life for those who would attempt to destroy our way of life.
I think Russia is seeing how brutal the terrorists are, and just how they will stop at nothing.

&quot;SAM&quot; and &quot;got1tie1&quot; should try reading books; it can be informative, particularly if one reads more than one point of view.

The Japanese were NOT preparing to surrender, unless arming the women and schoolchildren and drilling them to defend the homeland constitutes same.
The citizenry had been continually told they were winning the war, Same principle as the &quot;madrassas&quot; of today in the Arabic countries.
&lt;&lt;Truman didnt warn the Japanese what was going to happen or explain that surrender would avoid atomic bombing&gt;&gt; (maybe not the Hirsoshima bomb, but he did warn afterward of the Nagasaki bomb.)
As for Dresden, the Nazis were still fighting, still exterminating Jews, and would have been (but for poor management) still been bombing England. And the Russians were still largely occupied in Poland and Czechoslovakia.
Regardless, one can't emerge clean from a fight in a manure pile.