>this thread appears to be construed as basically a hit on France, which is always a popular escapade for Americans and British related peoples...<

Not really, but your post was certainly a diatribe against the US and the UK, orval.

((I))

Yes I do, Ziana. What you just wrote was complete nonsense, sorry. And yes, I do know the laws and regulations in Germany, and pay my taxes. I have no idea from where you get your "mis-information"?

OK then...you saying that as soon as you lose your job you can have Unemployment benefits to be paid to you?

She went to apply for a loan to buy an appartment (which is btw a third of my house but cost more) anyway...this is what they told her and now she is not buying anything because jobs (that is 'easy' to find) are so not secure etc...for VERY educated people btw.

Polly Magoo, two words: <u>Logan's Run</u>.

Ziana - LOL - I do agree with you when you say &lt;&lt; i thought that Paris need a fece lift...&gt;&gt; but I think the French are getting better at stooping and scooping as you suggest.

robjame,
I am so glad to hear that. So then France will bounce back I am sure...
Europe is old, let's face it. It is started to stink but it'll stay in place. And will be re-born, US will help.

Ira...not so much a diatribe, but a defense against frankly, quite enough negativity against France. I always find it interesting that some people post their diatribes against France in these threads about travel to France. This thread began that way, and is akin to trolling for responses. I follow your gourmand postings with great interest, especially the recent one with Stu Dudley.

My post is not against the U.S., but against the continual rap of the media and ranters that seem to love hitting France...there is absolutely no news regarding France on the media unless it is negative. It has been that way for a long time. The story is old. I feel the need for the empire to strike back at times, and certainly some of us must, considering the preponderance of attacks against France.

Other talk sites require this type of discussion to be in different threads, such as &quot;Everything Else&quot; or &quot;Political
Rants&quot;, or whatever. That would work quite well with me, and therefore allow those that want travel info about a certain country to avoid wading through the rantings of those that have issues.

Thank you for your wonderful reports.

Ziana, I can't discuss this nonsense with you , but it's very obvious your trying to provoke but have no idea of the actual facts. Yes, if you actually learned someting you can &quot;sell&quot;, you have the choice between a number of nice jobs anytime. Yes, if your unemployed and paid uneployment insurance, you actually have a RIGHT to the money. You're mixing up different things here and talking abuot HartzIV. Even then, you make more than somebody who works in a similar job in the US...

This IS nonsense and I don't want to continue...you go try to make more...it is ridiculous. Now you claim you know how to live in US?
My friends are 2 professionals who can't find decent jobs for over 15 years and of course they are not German, they are lowly immigrants.
I am not coming back to respond to you anymore. Just to show you I am not provoking - I am honestly concern.

I just thought of it...if you are so clever why don't you help me with advice off the board? Email me at tykmef at go dot com. Will you? Maybe my friends just mistaken life for 15 years. Who knows? Care to help?

Hi Orval,

I guess we all have days when we reach the end of our rope. :)

Peace.

((I))

&gt;&quot;&quot;lowly immigrants&quot;&quot;
Don't blame others as you do, but try to look at your own deficits. It's FAR easier if you'd just accept the rules. I'm really, really sick of people blaming society for their own misfortunes.

ziana - LOL You sure know how to lighten up a serious thread. However your contribution is still a distant second to your post &lt;&lt;Question for USA foodies&gt;&gt; on the United States forum.

By the way, if you think you're being clever by writing your email address without punctuation, try googling <b>at gmail dot com</b> some time - then reflect upon how web crawlers harvest peoples' addresses.

One problem no one has mentioned yet is the educational system. In Germany only a third of 10-year-olds get accepted into the higher education track. In France 15-year-olds need to pass exams to be allowed into the Lycees which can lead to university or grand ecole. The remaining kids get vocational training, but as logos999 rather callously explains their training is not enough to succeed in the 21st century economic system. Hence the 25-35% of young adults without a job. America, on the other hand, could probably stand to have more vocational training...but it sends a higher percentage of it population to quality secondary and graduate programs than any other country in the world. A better educated workforce combined with a more liquid job marketplace lead directly to our much lower unemployment rate.

Saw an interesting documentary recently. apparently French small businessmen are travelling to South-East England (a short commute via the Tunnel)and even setting up home here, because they find the employment laws so much more flexible, and the bureaucracy less.....and that's news to the English, LOL!!

&gt;rather callously. Wasn't istended to sound that way.
The high dropout rate is a problem but I don't think it's much different from the US. You have such a huge choice of possibilities in Germany, if you want and are willing to learn in later life all this financed by public funds. Yet many &quot;dropouts&quot; seem to accept their situation and refuse to change, Money comes from the state. The German employment market is divided into two, one who is highly flexible with an abundance of choices and jobs everywhere and one for the rest. And no, it's honestly not discrimiating. You need to speak the language, you need to be the best person for the job. You need to &quot;earn what you get&quot;.

to Orval -
The French have, for years and years, lectured the US, the EU and the rest of the world about their superior social and economic model. They never miss a chance to bash the US when we have troubles.
Fact is, sad as it is, many (most?) Americans and lots of Brits and Aussies consider France as something just shy of enemy status.
When the last decent Frenchman you can point to is Lafayette, something has gone seriously downhill for a seriously long time.

Thanks, Preternat, for such a balanced (and literate!) contribution. Has anyone noticed that Lucent, a company hived off from the once-mighty AT&amp;T, is being bought by the French firm Alcatel? Or that Chrysler (along with several British car makers, Rolls Royce among them) is now in the hands of Daimler Benz? Is Airbus Industrie struggling to survive? Could there be some life left in the old European dog yet?

jsmith, as a former party official I understand what we have elections for. But it's our right, and I'd argue our duty, to agitate for change between elections. I don't accept that our participation in the process should be limited to meekly walking into a polling booth then going back to sleep for the next 3-5 years. Most people vote for a party as the &quot;lesser of two evils&quot;, and governments often implement changes by stealth, passing laws that were never mentioned (or if so, dishonestly described) in their election campaign. Which is exactly what the Australian government has done in this case.

Ah GalRepro - dangerous ground - let's see there is Bush, well.. Clinton, err Bush, ahh Regan, ahh yes Carter... or maybe not, then Ford (who) Ford, Nixon mmm, Johnson, Kennedy...
You may want to rethink that argument.