A question about working in France
 

Somebody just told me, her daughter is in France, learning the language, after that she'll be hired by a cosmetic store to sell their product as her skin looks great.

Is she naiive and this won't happen, or is it really possible to find a job without a work permit? She's there on a tourist visa I was told.

For now she's staying with somebody, planning to get her own apartment after getting employed.

Sounds illegal to me assuming she is an American citizen. Typically the only jobs you get are under the table (dishwashing etc).

I would definitely look into this further before counting on anything. Or, perhaps they'll offer her a job on a commission only basis? (I can;t imagine there aren't hundreds of French girls with great skin who could do the job.)

There's absolutely no way this, as described, is legal. Even if she's on commission, or technically self-employed.

If she's been admitted as a tourist she can't do gainful activity.

BUT people from rich countries don't need visas to be a tourist in France, so it's unlikely Faina Again's supposition is 100% accurate.

If the daughter is studying and has a visa for that, many countries allow bona fide students to do a limited amount of paid work. Tne details vary massively by country and by visa, so there's little to be gained from speculating unless we know what the daughter's status really is

Thank you, this is what I thought. The lady is either naiive or breaking the law willingly without telling her elderly mother, not to make her worry.

But she left a teenage daughter behind promising her to get her to Paris as soon as she can...

If I hear more about it, I'll let you know. May be an interesting story.

I do know there are special situations for students, and perhaps interns, also.

However, aren't there exceptions for certain professions, such as the arts or modeling? I'm wondering if somehow it is that category, although as a permanent job that sounds doubtful. I am just sure all those foreign models who work in fashion shows in Paris are not doing it for free.

Please tell this person not to describe any customers as having "froggy skin."

good idea... don't mention they are slightly greenish, although some cosmetic companies actually do have certain tints to counter-balance skin that is too sallow, too pink, etc.

Is this a Japanese cosmetic company or perhaps something like that? Because if so, I could see that maybe they are a foreign company and it might be easier to hire their own nationalities under the guise that one should be Japanese to sell Shiseido or something like that, and if they have unique skills (like speaking Japanese fluently in order to speak to Japanese tourists), it could be possible.

All I know is I used to work for a cosmetic company, in the US, and they managed to get a visa to hire a Canadian which was totally bogus as lots of people could do that job. If a company has enough money, they usually can get visas for people they want to hire, although companies aren't usually that hard up to hire salesgirls.

I know a Dane who just got a visa in the US to work in an American company, also, and there are other people who could do that job.

There are exceptions for people in the arts, modeling, architecture, etc - but the rationale is that these people are of world-class standing and cannot be replaced by an equivalent citizen employee. (For instance, the 3/4 leads in an opera might be foreign, the chorus would not.) That would never apply to a shop assistant.

Unless this is some sort of student//work visa it seems fairly sure it's illegal.

Plenty of people, including Americans, work illegally in France. As this is also true for just about every other country in the world, it doesn't bother me particularly. However, it is important to know that there is always the risk of not being paid correctly, and there is also the risk of being caught and deported.

And one should never forget that one's insurance policy is automatically invalidated when one is in an illegal situation.

it might be easier to hire their own nationalities under the guise that one should be Japanese to sell Shiseido

That's very funny. Google the joint venture between Shisheido and Pierre Fabre, a French company.... :-)))

Is she naiive and this won't happen, or is it really possible to find a job without a work permit?

Technically it is not possible. No established company would employ ANYBODY whithout permit. It is up to her to decide whether she wants to work without any guarantee as to her job, her salary, medical coverage and with the risk of being deported. Even if as a student she could benefit from some very limited paid work, it would not be enough to make a living.

Is it possible that the daughter will be sponsored for the work permit by a company that she has already spoken to about a job?

I just received my Belgian work permit (I'm in the U.S. and my company is moving me there). If you asked my parents what is going on with my work permit/visa/move, they would have absolutely no idea how it all works. Maybe your friend just lacks details or knowledge of process?

It is possible that this woman might be hired, but it is not legal.

Although no visa is required for U.S. tourists, she is only allowed to stay for 90 days (legally).

Students (on a student visa) are allowed to work up to 20 hours a week, but only after the first year of study.

Even if she were somehow hired, good luck on supporting herself and her teenage daughter in Paris on what she will make in a store working 20 hours.

Good luck, also, on learning French well enough to deal with the public in a couple of months.

There are plenty of students in Paris, some of whom have beautiful skin, and who speak French. I can't imagine any company going to the trouble and expense of getting someone work papers for a job in a cosmetic store.

Unless there's something she hasn't told you...

Unless there is something she hadn't told her mother... :)

since the woman has a teenaged daughter and an elderly mother - it would seem she is old enough to know better ;)

She left her daughter behind?? I'll BET there is a lot she hasn't told her mother -- a lot :D

I speak French, AND I'm told my skin looks good. The possibilities are endless. :-)

I think the daughter didn't want the elderly mother to worry about her, so didn't tell her all the details. The mother is somewhat sheltered and used to her husbands to take care of her.

The daughter is in Paris, working as a nanny (au pair?) taking a kid to school in the morning, picking it up in the afternoon. She told her mother, she's taking language classes, and "having fun in the evenings". As far as I know, no husbands are left behind in the US :)

I'm curious about how a friend of mine was able to get a job teaching English (as a foreign language)to adults in a private school Germany.

Is there some kind of exception for the teaching of language by a native speaker of the language?

Everyone else has talked about the illegal aspect, just wanted to put in my 2 cents on the visa part.

I'm teaching at a Paris university as an exchange from the states. The university here (in Paris) took care of getting me my visa, which I had to pick up in Chicago. However, it is only valid for a period of time: usually 3 months. I got stuck with two *Gallic shrug*. The whole point of this visa was to get me into the country and keep me legal until I got my titre de séjour, what I would very broadly describe as a Green Card. However, due to the problems in the hideously bloated and circuitous French bureaucracy, I ended up having to wait until mid-November before I got the stupid card (arrived 7 Sept). This whole process was a series of silly hoops you had to jump through. Ex: I had to get a medical exam (req. in France every time you change a job) where they scanned me for tuberculosis. My Irish friends, obviously coming from inside the EU, got the exam but no TB test. ???

On the whole, it seems very unlikely to me that this would ever, ever work out legally in the situation you're describing.

Pegontheroad..

In Germany, the citizens from several countries incl the US are able to apply for working visa and residence permits even if they got here with only a tourist visa.

So, your friend could have come to Germany under the visa waiver program, or with a Schengen visa for the well known 90 day period. After that she'd apply at Immigration for an extension, i.e. a residence permit - but which would only be valid for Germany. Maybe she finds a job opportunity - and applies for a working permit. Both, residence and working permit could therotically be extended in regular intervals in all eternity.

But: The usual misunderstanding is that what Germany does on its national level will give her more or the same freedom to travel or work in any other EU country.