A Month in Western Europe on a Budget?
Feb 10th, 2010, 10:36 PM
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A Month in Western Europe on a Budget?
Hi all,
This is really more of a hypothetical, get-an-idea sort of post, as I don't plan on going to Europe until November 2011 at the earliest. I'd just like to get a general idea of costs and suggestions. Any help will be really appreciated!
I'm a student, so as you can imagine the budget is pretty tight. I plan on going with my partner for a European Winter. He's never been out of Australia, whereas I lived in Switzerland for 8 years. The places he really wants to visit are Paris, Amsterdam, Berlin and London (London is more of an "eh" thing. If we can fit it in for cheap, then sure, but otherwise we don't really mind). I'd really like to go to a couple of nice places that I haven't been to before as well; I'm thinking places like Bruges, Neuschwanstein and places in France. Another thing I'd really like to do is spend a good week or so in Switzerland (specifically Zurich, Geneva, maybe Jungfrau). I'd like to be in Zurich for a few days to catch up with old friends so that's something else to factor in.
So, my main few questions are:
1. When is the best time to go for a snow experience while not being ridiculously priced (I'm guessing Christmas time is pretty expensive)? As we're both uni students, our holidays run from mid-November until mid-February, so anytime there would suit us.
2. How long should we spend in each destination? How many days does it take to explore Amsterdam, Bruges, Berlin, various places in France? Or where else do you suggest we go?
3. I've been investigating Eurail passes and am trying to figure out if they're worth it. The Eurail Global pass is valid for 30 days of travel, but we're not going to that many different countries. The Eurail Select only allows up to 10 days of travel in 4 countries (Benelux, Germany, France, Switzerland). Would 10 days be enough to see everything we want to see? Can you get around many places on foot? Or would point-to-point tickets be cheaper?
4. Can you backpack around Europe in Winter? I.E. can you fit enough changes of warm clothes into a backpack?
And most importantly, how much should we expect to pay to backpack (for me this means staying in hostels, but splurging on Disneyland and a few nice dinners) around Western Europe for a month?
Sorry for the immensely long post!
This is really more of a hypothetical, get-an-idea sort of post, as I don't plan on going to Europe until November 2011 at the earliest. I'd just like to get a general idea of costs and suggestions. Any help will be really appreciated!
I'm a student, so as you can imagine the budget is pretty tight. I plan on going with my partner for a European Winter. He's never been out of Australia, whereas I lived in Switzerland for 8 years. The places he really wants to visit are Paris, Amsterdam, Berlin and London (London is more of an "eh" thing. If we can fit it in for cheap, then sure, but otherwise we don't really mind). I'd really like to go to a couple of nice places that I haven't been to before as well; I'm thinking places like Bruges, Neuschwanstein and places in France. Another thing I'd really like to do is spend a good week or so in Switzerland (specifically Zurich, Geneva, maybe Jungfrau). I'd like to be in Zurich for a few days to catch up with old friends so that's something else to factor in.
So, my main few questions are:
1. When is the best time to go for a snow experience while not being ridiculously priced (I'm guessing Christmas time is pretty expensive)? As we're both uni students, our holidays run from mid-November until mid-February, so anytime there would suit us.
2. How long should we spend in each destination? How many days does it take to explore Amsterdam, Bruges, Berlin, various places in France? Or where else do you suggest we go?
3. I've been investigating Eurail passes and am trying to figure out if they're worth it. The Eurail Global pass is valid for 30 days of travel, but we're not going to that many different countries. The Eurail Select only allows up to 10 days of travel in 4 countries (Benelux, Germany, France, Switzerland). Would 10 days be enough to see everything we want to see? Can you get around many places on foot? Or would point-to-point tickets be cheaper?
4. Can you backpack around Europe in Winter? I.E. can you fit enough changes of warm clothes into a backpack?
And most importantly, how much should we expect to pay to backpack (for me this means staying in hostels, but splurging on Disneyland and a few nice dinners) around Western Europe for a month?
Sorry for the immensely long post!
Feb 11th, 2010, 01:46 PM
#2
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 976
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi lyra,
Seems like you're not getting much response--perhaps because most of the folks who post on this forum have likely moved on from our backpacking days. I think you'd get good advice at the Lonely Planet's Thorn Tree Forum, http://www.thorntree.lonelyplanet.com. Have you posted your questions there?
I've spent a week each in early March in Amsterdam (snowy!), Paris, Barcelona, and London and wasn't really ready to leave any of them. I guess I would say move around less rather than more--but maybe you prefer to be on the move. In any case, you'll have a great time.
Seems like you're not getting much response--perhaps because most of the folks who post on this forum have likely moved on from our backpacking days. I think you'd get good advice at the Lonely Planet's Thorn Tree Forum, http://www.thorntree.lonelyplanet.com. Have you posted your questions there?
I've spent a week each in early March in Amsterdam (snowy!), Paris, Barcelona, and London and wasn't really ready to leave any of them. I guess I would say move around less rather than more--but maybe you prefer to be on the move. In any case, you'll have a great time.
Feb 11th, 2010, 07:37 PM
#3
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,123
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
4. Can you backpack around Europe in Winter? I.E. can you fit enough changes of warm clothes into a backpack?
Yes, you certainly can - bring more underneath layers that you can wash more frequently. I have done it, although by the end of my time (3 months) I was a bit sick of my clothing. If you buy new things you can always send the old or dirty things home by post. If you can't fit your coat or parka into your backpack on the way over, carry or wear it.
Lavandula
Yes, you certainly can - bring more underneath layers that you can wash more frequently. I have done it, although by the end of my time (3 months) I was a bit sick of my clothing. If you buy new things you can always send the old or dirty things home by post. If you can't fit your coat or parka into your backpack on the way over, carry or wear it.
Lavandula
Feb 11th, 2010, 07:43 PM
#4
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,123
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Oh, I might just add that coming from a warmer climate, the right shoes are really important. You need something with a good thick sole, preferably waterproof, and if possible a change of footwear to give your feet a break and let your shoes dry out if they get wet.
Lavandula
Lavandula
Feb 11th, 2010, 09:06 PM
#5
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 26,390
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
How many days it takes to explore a place depends upon what you are interested in.
For example, aprillilics loved Amsterdam and I was finished with it in a couple of days. Much of the Rijksmuseum was closed while we were there and while a lovely city, the architecture wasn't that interesting. The collection at the Van Gogh museum was great but the museum itself was a let down. The areas surrounding Amsterdam are interesting, the Kroller-Mueller Museum the day before. Should have overnighted nearby and gone back the next day.
What are you interested in seeing? Sights? Art? Architecture? Hiking? Only you know how much time you can spend looking at architecture or how far you would travel to see a Keith Haring wall. I believe that many people would wait hours to eat in certain restuarants. Still others have blown off whole legs of their trips to hang out in Amsterdam.
Your questions can be answered, if you know what you want.
Someone with different interests would find mu
For example, aprillilics loved Amsterdam and I was finished with it in a couple of days. Much of the Rijksmuseum was closed while we were there and while a lovely city, the architecture wasn't that interesting. The collection at the Van Gogh museum was great but the museum itself was a let down. The areas surrounding Amsterdam are interesting, the Kroller-Mueller Museum the day before. Should have overnighted nearby and gone back the next day.
What are you interested in seeing? Sights? Art? Architecture? Hiking? Only you know how much time you can spend looking at architecture or how far you would travel to see a Keith Haring wall. I believe that many people would wait hours to eat in certain restuarants. Still others have blown off whole legs of their trips to hang out in Amsterdam.
Your questions can be answered, if you know what you want.
Someone with different interests would find mu
Feb 12th, 2010, 04:13 AM
#6
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 7,067
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In terms of when you go - you say "European Winter" and say mid Nov to Mid Feb. If you are looking for snow you won't get it in Nov (maybe in the mountains, but not most places). There's no guarantee you'll get snow in most places any way, some years yes, some years no. But more likely in Jan and Feb. Also keep in mind hours of daylight. Nov and Dec and early Jan it doesn't get light out till after 8 am in Paris, later further north than that, and is dark by 5 pm. Check weather and daylight hours on line for the places you are thinking of going.
In terms of where you go - as stated above it mostly depends on what you like, everyone is different. But in general I would pick no more than four countries - about one per week. And no more than two different destinations in each. That would still be 8 moves which is about right for a reasonably fast paced trip but not one that is crazy. Try for a mix of small towns and larger cities and try to find places you can base yourself and do day trips.
Point to point tickets are usually cheaper than a rail pass. You can price things out on raileuope.com or http://reiseauskunft.bahn.de/bin/query.exe/en
For lodging - it is often cheaper (and nicer) for two people to stay in B&Bs, or 1 or 2 star hotels than in hostels. There are many threads here that do include lower priced hotels even though most of the people here prefer more expensive lodging.
In terms of where you go - as stated above it mostly depends on what you like, everyone is different. But in general I would pick no more than four countries - about one per week. And no more than two different destinations in each. That would still be 8 moves which is about right for a reasonably fast paced trip but not one that is crazy. Try for a mix of small towns and larger cities and try to find places you can base yourself and do day trips.
Point to point tickets are usually cheaper than a rail pass. You can price things out on raileuope.com or http://reiseauskunft.bahn.de/bin/query.exe/en
For lodging - it is often cheaper (and nicer) for two people to stay in B&Bs, or 1 or 2 star hotels than in hostels. There are many threads here that do include lower priced hotels even though most of the people here prefer more expensive lodging.
Feb 14th, 2010, 03:58 PM
#7
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi all, thank you for all your replies!
Aprillilacs, thanks for the link to that forum. I hadn't heard of it yet, so I'll be sure to post there as well.
Thanks Lavandula for your advice on clothing and shoes. It's good to know we'll be able to stay warm with just a back pack of clothes!
LSky, thank you for your advice. I hadn't really thought about what I wanted to do, mostly because every holiday I ever take is during summer - and there's not much call for hanging out on the beaches all day in Europe in January!
I think we're most interested in the sights (touristy stuff) but also seeing little towns compared to the big tourist cities. We will be going skiing whilst in Switzerland, and would probably like to find a nice club or bar every once in a while. I'd also really like to explore "sceneries"; maybe not hiking, but wandering through nature would definitely be fun!
Isabel, thank you for your advice. Yes, I was definitely leaning more towards Jan/Feb as I do plan on going skiing. Thanks for reminding me of the daylight hours, that had completely slipped my mind.
Your advice on timing is also really useful. I think we've decided on a week each in Switzerland, France and Holland, with just a few days' stop-over in Belgium and Germany on the way through.
I will have to look into B&B's as it wasn't something I'd considered yet, thank you for bringing it up!
Thanks again guys for all your help!
Aprillilacs, thanks for the link to that forum. I hadn't heard of it yet, so I'll be sure to post there as well.
Thanks Lavandula for your advice on clothing and shoes. It's good to know we'll be able to stay warm with just a back pack of clothes!
LSky, thank you for your advice. I hadn't really thought about what I wanted to do, mostly because every holiday I ever take is during summer - and there's not much call for hanging out on the beaches all day in Europe in January!
I think we're most interested in the sights (touristy stuff) but also seeing little towns compared to the big tourist cities. We will be going skiing whilst in Switzerland, and would probably like to find a nice club or bar every once in a while. I'd also really like to explore "sceneries"; maybe not hiking, but wandering through nature would definitely be fun!
Isabel, thank you for your advice. Yes, I was definitely leaning more towards Jan/Feb as I do plan on going skiing. Thanks for reminding me of the daylight hours, that had completely slipped my mind.
Your advice on timing is also really useful. I think we've decided on a week each in Switzerland, France and Holland, with just a few days' stop-over in Belgium and Germany on the way through.
I will have to look into B&B's as it wasn't something I'd considered yet, thank you for bringing it up!
Thanks again guys for all your help!
Feb 14th, 2010, 07:32 PM
#8
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 774
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
With a Eurail pass, to save money,and to see as much as possible, you can start early and get an idea of a couple of cities on the one day - eg we spent a few hours in Lucerne on the way from Cologne to Geneva. Another time, we went from Cologne to Vienna, found a "Pension" to drop of our gear, and continued on the same day ticket to Budapest, coming back to Vienna later , again on the same day ticket. On long trips, you can sleep overnight and save a hotel bill that night (eg Geneva to Barcelona). We found "Pensions" at Tourist Info places at the railway stations.
I like travelling in winter as there as fewer tourists, and also coming from Australia, I love the shapes of the deciduous trees - you can see the architecture better too, with bare trees. Yes, the days are so much shorter, but in the cities, street lighting comes on as soon as it's dark, and there can be still lots of people in the streets until 8pm or so, going about their business.
How long to spend anywhere? As long as you can! As a 23yo, I wanted to see as much as possible, and did so. (In those days, the Fodor's Tourbook equivalent was "Europe on $5 a Day". ) But after nearly 50 years, the places I remember most from that time are the ones where we spent the longest. You can't possibly see everything. You have lots of time to read and research what's available and what interests you most.
As for accommodation costs, don't forget Priceline, if you can book ahead. You can check out what people have paid at www.biddingfortravel.com
I like travelling in winter as there as fewer tourists, and also coming from Australia, I love the shapes of the deciduous trees - you can see the architecture better too, with bare trees. Yes, the days are so much shorter, but in the cities, street lighting comes on as soon as it's dark, and there can be still lots of people in the streets until 8pm or so, going about their business.
How long to spend anywhere? As long as you can! As a 23yo, I wanted to see as much as possible, and did so. (In those days, the Fodor's Tourbook equivalent was "Europe on $5 a Day". ) But after nearly 50 years, the places I remember most from that time are the ones where we spent the longest. You can't possibly see everything. You have lots of time to read and research what's available and what interests you most.
As for accommodation costs, don't forget Priceline, if you can book ahead. You can check out what people have paid at www.biddingfortravel.com
Feb 14th, 2010, 08:08 PM
#9
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 26,390
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
lyra895, If you are all interested in art and nature and want an out of the way experience here's something on the Kroller Mueller museum I wrote for a trip report that I never posted:
THE KROLLER-MULLER MUSEUM (sorry I don’t know how to make umlauts)
I didn’t even know I had a list of the top 5 modern art museums until we visited The Kroller-Mueller Museum. It isn’t an art museum as much as it‘s an art experience. An organic landscape of nature, art and architecture that rolled out to greet us and carried us through the 5,500 hectare Hoge Veluwe National Park. I’m always confused about hectares but like the idea of them, I did the math: it’s 13,950 acres which translates into approximately 21 miles of park. I knew it was different when the bus dropped us off to buy tickets and we had a choice of taking one of the hundred or so free white bicycles to the museum or stay on the bus.
Not only did Mrs. Muller provide a fine collection of over 90 Van Gogh’s, and good ones too not just sketches but great paintings, she also added; Seurat, Mondrian, Signac, Cezanne‘s Picassos the list goes on. She housed this art in a building that is architecture at it’s best. The low slung concrete and steel structure supports large walls of glass that reflect the art surrounding it and pulls you in. The architect, Wim Quist created a perfect continuum between structure, art and nature.
Don’t do what we did, get an early start. Take the train to Ede-Wageningen station a grab a bus to the town of Otterlo. The website gives clear instructions: www.kmm.nl
The bus goes right into the park. There are 2 places to get off. The first is near the white bicycle lot. There are hundreds of white bicycles free for use in the park. If you’ve planned your time well or someone in your group doesn’t appreciate art, get off the bus and grab a bike to explore the park before the museum. If you were like us and only have time for the museum keep on the bus. Also the website for taking the train. www.ns.nl
THE KROLLER-MULLER MUSEUM (sorry I don’t know how to make umlauts)
I didn’t even know I had a list of the top 5 modern art museums until we visited The Kroller-Mueller Museum. It isn’t an art museum as much as it‘s an art experience. An organic landscape of nature, art and architecture that rolled out to greet us and carried us through the 5,500 hectare Hoge Veluwe National Park. I’m always confused about hectares but like the idea of them, I did the math: it’s 13,950 acres which translates into approximately 21 miles of park. I knew it was different when the bus dropped us off to buy tickets and we had a choice of taking one of the hundred or so free white bicycles to the museum or stay on the bus.
Not only did Mrs. Muller provide a fine collection of over 90 Van Gogh’s, and good ones too not just sketches but great paintings, she also added; Seurat, Mondrian, Signac, Cezanne‘s Picassos the list goes on. She housed this art in a building that is architecture at it’s best. The low slung concrete and steel structure supports large walls of glass that reflect the art surrounding it and pulls you in. The architect, Wim Quist created a perfect continuum between structure, art and nature.
Don’t do what we did, get an early start. Take the train to Ede-Wageningen station a grab a bus to the town of Otterlo. The website gives clear instructions: www.kmm.nl
The bus goes right into the park. There are 2 places to get off. The first is near the white bicycle lot. There are hundreds of white bicycles free for use in the park. If you’ve planned your time well or someone in your group doesn’t appreciate art, get off the bus and grab a bike to explore the park before the museum. If you were like us and only have time for the museum keep on the bus. Also the website for taking the train. www.ns.nl
Feb 17th, 2010, 10:19 PM
#10
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks again guys for your responses! I've re-evaluated my plan a bit, trying to spend longer in each destination. My plan at the moment looks something like this:
Arrive approx. 13th January
3 nights in Zurich
5 nights in Lauterbrunnen
3 nights in Paris
2 nights in Bruges
5 nights in Amsterdam
1 nights in Berlin
3 nights in Reutte
2 nights in Zurich
Leave approx. 6th February
After doing some more research, I think I've decided point-to-point tickets are cheaper, though I can still be swayed if someone brings up a valid point.
We plan on taking a Night Train from Geneva to Paris, thus saving one night's accommodation. Are the views on this stretch too spectacular to miss?
We will fly from Amsterdam to Berlin, as it is much cheaper and faster than a train.
We will take the train from Berlin to Reutte, making short stops (just an hour or two) along the way, though apart from maybe München, we haven't decided where. Any suggestions?
From our calculations this seems to fit well into our budget, coming to around AU$12'000 for the two of us. That includes all expenses with a ~$500 leeway for inflation.
Everything is pretty easy to guesstimate thanks to the Internet, but the one thing I'm really not sure about is the cost of food. We're planning on staying at B&B's mostly with a few hostels along the way too, all have breakfast included. I've allowed €40/day average for lunches and dinners... is this realistic? We'd like to have a mix of sandwiches, cheap dinners, cooking for ourselves and a couple of nice dinners.
Thanks for your advice everyone!
Arrive approx. 13th January
3 nights in Zurich
5 nights in Lauterbrunnen
3 nights in Paris
2 nights in Bruges
5 nights in Amsterdam
1 nights in Berlin
3 nights in Reutte
2 nights in Zurich
Leave approx. 6th February
After doing some more research, I think I've decided point-to-point tickets are cheaper, though I can still be swayed if someone brings up a valid point.
We plan on taking a Night Train from Geneva to Paris, thus saving one night's accommodation. Are the views on this stretch too spectacular to miss?
We will fly from Amsterdam to Berlin, as it is much cheaper and faster than a train.
We will take the train from Berlin to Reutte, making short stops (just an hour or two) along the way, though apart from maybe München, we haven't decided where. Any suggestions?
From our calculations this seems to fit well into our budget, coming to around AU$12'000 for the two of us. That includes all expenses with a ~$500 leeway for inflation.
Everything is pretty easy to guesstimate thanks to the Internet, but the one thing I'm really not sure about is the cost of food. We're planning on staying at B&B's mostly with a few hostels along the way too, all have breakfast included. I've allowed €40/day average for lunches and dinners... is this realistic? We'd like to have a mix of sandwiches, cheap dinners, cooking for ourselves and a couple of nice dinners.
Thanks for your advice everyone!
Feb 17th, 2010, 11:07 PM
#11
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,546
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I would take at least one night, but better two, from Zurich and add them to Berlin. Berlin is a huge, there are a lot of museums to visit there, it is a very modern city. You can visit from there Postdam, as a very easy day trip.
Look for B&B, we stayed in Germany and SW in so nice B&B, so clean, nice decorated, good breakfast and very resonable prices. Also in Paris you can look for a studio instead of a hotel.
Have a nice trip!
Look for B&B, we stayed in Germany and SW in so nice B&B, so clean, nice decorated, good breakfast and very resonable prices. Also in Paris you can look for a studio instead of a hotel.
Have a nice trip!
Feb 18th, 2010, 01:20 AM
#12
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,005
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
>>>1. When is the best time to go for a snow experience while not being ridiculously priced (I'm guessing Christmas time is pretty expensive)? As we're both uni students, our holidays run from mid-November until mid-February, so anytime there would suit us.<<<
Yes, Christmas is extremely expensive. After 8 January, prices will drop. They will rise again in March. Thus, any time in between will be okay. Keep in mind that lift passes will be the most expensive item. Do not worry about daylight: most slopes are illuminated at night. Generally speaking, Austria is the least expensive country for skiing, Switzerland the most expensive.
>>>2. How long should we spend in each destination? How many days does it take to explore Amsterdam, Bruges, Berlin, various places in France? Or where else do you suggest we go?
Big cities like Berlin, Paris require at least 3 full days. So, one night in Berlin is ridiculous - and why 5 nights in Amsterdam? For quaint small towns like Brugge, one day might be enough to get an impression.
I am not sure if I should recommend EuroDisney. The most of your time, you are waiting in lines. Often, you stand 45 minutes in a line for a 2-minute ride. There are many European theme parks which are better organized.
The train ride from Berlin to Reutte is 9 hours - which is a lot. The train stops in Bamberg, you may make a break there.
Yes, Christmas is extremely expensive. After 8 January, prices will drop. They will rise again in March. Thus, any time in between will be okay. Keep in mind that lift passes will be the most expensive item. Do not worry about daylight: most slopes are illuminated at night. Generally speaking, Austria is the least expensive country for skiing, Switzerland the most expensive.
>>>2. How long should we spend in each destination? How many days does it take to explore Amsterdam, Bruges, Berlin, various places in France? Or where else do you suggest we go?
Big cities like Berlin, Paris require at least 3 full days. So, one night in Berlin is ridiculous - and why 5 nights in Amsterdam? For quaint small towns like Brugge, one day might be enough to get an impression.
I am not sure if I should recommend EuroDisney. The most of your time, you are waiting in lines. Often, you stand 45 minutes in a line for a 2-minute ride. There are many European theme parks which are better organized.
The train ride from Berlin to Reutte is 9 hours - which is a lot. The train stops in Bamberg, you may make a break there.
Feb 18th, 2010, 03:28 AM
#13
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 235
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
lyra,
Gent is going to more affordable than Brugge.
Berlin is going to be cheaper and much more interesting than Amsterdam, and less wet. I like Amsterdam, but what's the big attraction for your partner?
If you are thinking that two of you are going to both live on 40e per day -- meaning 2 breakfasts, 2 lunches and 2 dinners -- that's 10e per meal. Can you travel in Australia on that little, only having a kitchen every so often?
Just in general, skiing destinations in winter are wildly expensive and not very interesting if you want to experience Europe, nor is it fun to march through small towns in the freezing cold and snow. It is possible to go from Switzerland into Italy, or from Paris and the French Pyrenees into Spain, and then have sunshine and only a bit of cold or snow in January. Even if you wanted skiing, you could do some, but then head south. Your trip is so far in the future, you might think about that.
Gent is going to more affordable than Brugge.
Berlin is going to be cheaper and much more interesting than Amsterdam, and less wet. I like Amsterdam, but what's the big attraction for your partner?
If you are thinking that two of you are going to both live on 40e per day -- meaning 2 breakfasts, 2 lunches and 2 dinners -- that's 10e per meal. Can you travel in Australia on that little, only having a kitchen every so often?
Just in general, skiing destinations in winter are wildly expensive and not very interesting if you want to experience Europe, nor is it fun to march through small towns in the freezing cold and snow. It is possible to go from Switzerland into Italy, or from Paris and the French Pyrenees into Spain, and then have sunshine and only a bit of cold or snow in January. Even if you wanted skiing, you could do some, but then head south. Your trip is so far in the future, you might think about that.
Feb 18th, 2010, 03:34 AM
#14
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,005
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
>>>If you are thinking that two of you are going to both live on 40e per day -- meaning 2 breakfasts, 2 lunches and 2 dinners -- that's 10e per meal.<<<
No problem at all. Many hotels have breakfast included, and you can get inexpensive breakfast in cafés and bakeries. Fast food and lunch is available at 3 or 4 Euros. Or you buy supplies in grocery stores and have picnic meals.
No problem at all. Many hotels have breakfast included, and you can get inexpensive breakfast in cafés and bakeries. Fast food and lunch is available at 3 or 4 Euros. Or you buy supplies in grocery stores and have picnic meals.
Feb 18th, 2010, 11:36 AM
#15
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 4,109
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The idea of taking a night train is a good suggestion. Not only does it save the cost of a hotel, but it saves valuable daylight time for sightseeing. (I did that several times at 21 and again at 27 and 30. At 41 I did it once and realized I was out of my mind to think I could do a good day's sightseeing on little sleep.) Now many years on, I wouldn't even think about it, for, while I am not rich, I can afford a little more.(Thanks Carrabella for the reminder of E on $5 a day) Enjoy the adventure now! I did and wouldn't trade it for anything, nor would I trade more recent trips.
Feb 18th, 2010, 11:44 AM
#16
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 9,023
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I've been investigating Eurail passes and am trying to figure out if they're worth it. The Eurail Global pass is valid for 30 days of travel, but we're not going to that many different countries. The Eurail Select only allows up to 10 days of travel in 4 countries (Benelux, Germany, France, Switzerland). Would 10 days be enough to see everything we want to see? Can you get around many places on foot? Or would point-to-point tickets be cheaper?>
Ok for these type of questions here are some superb sources for novices trying to figure out the fantastic European rail system and railpasses (youth passes for those under 25 are real bargains IMO if traveling to more than a few countries) - www.seat61.com; www.ricksteves.com; www.budgeteuropetravel.com - be sure to download on the latter their free (and superb IMO) European Planning & Rail Guide that has chapters on rail travel in each country, rail maps, travel times and possible itineraries. And i would also get a copy of Let's Go Europe - the 'Bible' as they say for American backpackers - written and researched by college students but valuable for any age going on a real budget. Their reviews of accommodations- real budget accommodations like hostels, etc are unparalleled IMO -available in any large bookstore.
Ok for these type of questions here are some superb sources for novices trying to figure out the fantastic European rail system and railpasses (youth passes for those under 25 are real bargains IMO if traveling to more than a few countries) - www.seat61.com; www.ricksteves.com; www.budgeteuropetravel.com - be sure to download on the latter their free (and superb IMO) European Planning & Rail Guide that has chapters on rail travel in each country, rail maps, travel times and possible itineraries. And i would also get a copy of Let's Go Europe - the 'Bible' as they say for American backpackers - written and researched by college students but valuable for any age going on a real budget. Their reviews of accommodations- real budget accommodations like hostels, etc are unparalleled IMO -available in any large bookstore.
Feb 18th, 2010, 02:07 PM
#17
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 235
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Echaton,
They said they'd be staying hostels, which seldom offer free breakfasts.
Still looks to me like they are coming from Australia to essentially ski and see Amsterdam. If that's all they want to do, plus visit friends in Zurich. That's a more expensive trip than they realize, and they should probably cut it back to their primary focus. Disneyland? Paris? Berlin? If they give up the skiing, maybe. Otherwise, I don't see it "on a budget".
They said they'd be staying hostels, which seldom offer free breakfasts.
Still looks to me like they are coming from Australia to essentially ski and see Amsterdam. If that's all they want to do, plus visit friends in Zurich. That's a more expensive trip than they realize, and they should probably cut it back to their primary focus. Disneyland? Paris? Berlin? If they give up the skiing, maybe. Otherwise, I don't see it "on a budget".
Feb 18th, 2010, 09:11 PM
#18
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ok so Berlin is a definite then! I wasn't sure how much there was to see in certain places, so it's good to come on here and get first-hand experience.
The length of our stay in Amsterdam was really just a wild guess; my sister had stayed for 5 days over Christmas, but in January there probably won't be as much to see. I'm happy to cut 2 days out of Amsterdam and add them to Berlin instead.
I've looked into ski-passes in Switzerland and Austria on your advice, thanks Echnaton. That was one cost I hadn't considered yet. It's amazing how much more expensive Switzerland is that Austria! I'm thinking now, instead of skiing in Lauterbrunnen, to extend our stay in Reutte by a few days and go skiing there. Does anyone know whether the skiing is any good there? The budget certainly fits!
I'll also rethink the length of our stay in Bruges, but I think we're pretty set on 2 nights.
EuroDisney was another one of those if-it-happens things, so I'll reconsider that one too, now that you've reminded me of the lines. It's not like we don't have theme parks here; just no Mickey running around!
Thanks, primeranoche, for your input. I'll have a look into Gent, but I think we're pretty set on Bruges.
Almost every place I have considered in ways of B&Bs and hostels serves breakfast, so the €40/day would generally not include breakfast. And generally, yeah, I can get away with AU$15 (€10) per meal in Australia, with just the occasional dinner going over budget.
We don't really have any interest in the Mediterranean countries on this trip, but I'll keep that in mind. It's true that we probably don't want to be in the freezing cold for the full month. Thanks for the suggestion!
Irishface, thanks for your input regarding the night train! It's good to get confirmation that it's worth it. Thanks to Palenque for the websites on the Eurail passes. I discovered Rick Steves the other day and have pretty much fallen in love with his articles and tips. I'll give the other two a look as well!
Given the advice you guys have shared, a revised itinerary:
Arrive approx. 13th January
3 nights in Zurich
3 nights in Paris
2 nights in Bruges
3 nights in Amsterdam
3 nights in Berlin
1 night en-route to Reutte
5 nights in Reutte
2 nights in Zurich
Leave approx. 5th February
What do you think? Thanks for all your help guys!
The length of our stay in Amsterdam was really just a wild guess; my sister had stayed for 5 days over Christmas, but in January there probably won't be as much to see. I'm happy to cut 2 days out of Amsterdam and add them to Berlin instead.
I've looked into ski-passes in Switzerland and Austria on your advice, thanks Echnaton. That was one cost I hadn't considered yet. It's amazing how much more expensive Switzerland is that Austria! I'm thinking now, instead of skiing in Lauterbrunnen, to extend our stay in Reutte by a few days and go skiing there. Does anyone know whether the skiing is any good there? The budget certainly fits!
I'll also rethink the length of our stay in Bruges, but I think we're pretty set on 2 nights.
EuroDisney was another one of those if-it-happens things, so I'll reconsider that one too, now that you've reminded me of the lines. It's not like we don't have theme parks here; just no Mickey running around!
Thanks, primeranoche, for your input. I'll have a look into Gent, but I think we're pretty set on Bruges.
Almost every place I have considered in ways of B&Bs and hostels serves breakfast, so the €40/day would generally not include breakfast. And generally, yeah, I can get away with AU$15 (€10) per meal in Australia, with just the occasional dinner going over budget.
We don't really have any interest in the Mediterranean countries on this trip, but I'll keep that in mind. It's true that we probably don't want to be in the freezing cold for the full month. Thanks for the suggestion!
Irishface, thanks for your input regarding the night train! It's good to get confirmation that it's worth it. Thanks to Palenque for the websites on the Eurail passes. I discovered Rick Steves the other day and have pretty much fallen in love with his articles and tips. I'll give the other two a look as well!
Given the advice you guys have shared, a revised itinerary:
Arrive approx. 13th January
3 nights in Zurich
3 nights in Paris
2 nights in Bruges
3 nights in Amsterdam
3 nights in Berlin
1 night en-route to Reutte
5 nights in Reutte
2 nights in Zurich
Leave approx. 5th February
What do you think? Thanks for all your help guys!
Feb 18th, 2010, 11:07 PM
#19
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,152
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi lyra895
My 23y/o son did Europe last year with a friend.
They flew into Amsterdam and had New Year there he said it was the biggest and best party he had been to. They had a Eurorail pass and spent i night in Brussells, 4 in Paris, 5 in Munich 3 in Vienna, flew to Berlin (cheap flight with Air Berlin) 4 nights in Berlin and then back to Amsterdam.
They had a great time plenty of snow around. Stayed in some youth hostels only booked a couple of nights ahead. Sometimes they got a good accommodation deal on wotif.
They did free walking tours in Paris and Berlin, used Munich as a base, didn't find food too expensive. I think the drinks are more expensive.
Met lots of people and had a great time and of course wants to go back.
The eurorail pass was a good deal
My 23y/o son did Europe last year with a friend.
They flew into Amsterdam and had New Year there he said it was the biggest and best party he had been to. They had a Eurorail pass and spent i night in Brussells, 4 in Paris, 5 in Munich 3 in Vienna, flew to Berlin (cheap flight with Air Berlin) 4 nights in Berlin and then back to Amsterdam.
They had a great time plenty of snow around. Stayed in some youth hostels only booked a couple of nights ahead. Sometimes they got a good accommodation deal on wotif.
They did free walking tours in Paris and Berlin, used Munich as a base, didn't find food too expensive. I think the drinks are more expensive.
Met lots of people and had a great time and of course wants to go back.
The eurorail pass was a good deal
Feb 19th, 2010, 12:52 AM
#20
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,005
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Lyra,
your itinerary has much improved. It is doable now and you will have a fantastic time in Europe. Maybe one night in Brugge would be enough.
Reutte is famous for its cross-country skiing - there are 120km of cross-country skiing trails.
The downhill skiing area Hahnenkamm is not large, but good. The elevation is between 1,500 and 1,900 meters and the ski area is completely oriented southwards. So, it won't be too cold when you will be skiing by end of January or early February. The daily skipass is 27.50€, the half-day pass 20.00€ (which is quite reasonable).
Here the website:
http://www.reuttener-seilbahnen.at
This is an interactive map of the ski area:
http://www.reuttener-seilbahnen.at/panoramakarte/
And here a webcam:
http://www.hahnenkamm-reutte.at/inde...=artikel&id=37
your itinerary has much improved. It is doable now and you will have a fantastic time in Europe. Maybe one night in Brugge would be enough.
Reutte is famous for its cross-country skiing - there are 120km of cross-country skiing trails.
The downhill skiing area Hahnenkamm is not large, but good. The elevation is between 1,500 and 1,900 meters and the ski area is completely oriented southwards. So, it won't be too cold when you will be skiing by end of January or early February. The daily skipass is 27.50€, the half-day pass 20.00€ (which is quite reasonable).
Here the website:
http://www.reuttener-seilbahnen.at
This is an interactive map of the ski area:
http://www.reuttener-seilbahnen.at/panoramakarte/
And here a webcam:
http://www.hahnenkamm-reutte.at/inde...=artikel&id=37
