A humorous article on French manners from the BBC site..
Dec 27th, 2006, 06:13 AM
#41
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"How many can treat a humourous article so seriously."
Actually, I'd say it is the author who takes herself seriously, such that she finds the notion of others judging her behaviour (what, they are judging me, ME??) extraordinary to the point that she thinks it noble of herself to dismiss it as an amusing eccentricity on their part. (I concede she is exaggerating her hosts' and co-guests' reactions, I hardly think she was of such importance to the gathering that they reacted as sternly as she claims.)
What would I have done "as a guest and as a supplier of the wine." First, I wouldn't take the two roles (guest and supplier of the wine) to be synonymous. In other words, from the outset I would have taken the wine not to be part of the evening's supply, but as a gift - the host can serve it, store it, or even open it to waste, as he or she chooses. Besides, if it isn't served, it isn't necessarily going to go to waste. Even after opening, one can store wine for another day or so (especially if one uses a rubber stopper in conjunction with one of those gizmos with which one can pump out most of the air above the wine remaining in the bottle.)
Actually, I'd say it is the author who takes herself seriously, such that she finds the notion of others judging her behaviour (what, they are judging me, ME??) extraordinary to the point that she thinks it noble of herself to dismiss it as an amusing eccentricity on their part. (I concede she is exaggerating her hosts' and co-guests' reactions, I hardly think she was of such importance to the gathering that they reacted as sternly as she claims.)
What would I have done "as a guest and as a supplier of the wine." First, I wouldn't take the two roles (guest and supplier of the wine) to be synonymous. In other words, from the outset I would have taken the wine not to be part of the evening's supply, but as a gift - the host can serve it, store it, or even open it to waste, as he or she chooses. Besides, if it isn't served, it isn't necessarily going to go to waste. Even after opening, one can store wine for another day or so (especially if one uses a rubber stopper in conjunction with one of those gizmos with which one can pump out most of the air above the wine remaining in the bottle.)
Dec 27th, 2006, 06:15 AM
#42
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jsmith, wasn't the red offered at the beginning of the meal?
I don't know how I would have handled this since I would have been the first person to drink the red. It would not have gone unpoured. In any case what did you do?
I don't know how I would have handled this since I would have been the first person to drink the red. It would not have gone unpoured. In any case what did you do?
Dec 27th, 2006, 07:45 AM
#44
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> We took two bottles of wine, a white and a red. The host opened both bottles and asked which we would like. <
I bring wine in order to replenish the host's stock. I don't expect my bottle of wine to be served.
>All five adults chose white. Before the meal was over the white was finished. The red - opened - sat on the sideboard and it was never offered.<
Well, if everyone wanted white, why serve the red?
>... What would you have done as a guest and supplier of the wine? <
Nothing. It is up to the host to provide the food and drink.
Sitting in for Miss Manners
I bring wine in order to replenish the host's stock. I don't expect my bottle of wine to be served.
>All five adults chose white. Before the meal was over the white was finished. The red - opened - sat on the sideboard and it was never offered.<
Well, if everyone wanted white, why serve the red?
>... What would you have done as a guest and supplier of the wine? <
Nothing. It is up to the host to provide the food and drink.
Sitting in for Miss Manners
Dec 27th, 2006, 10:22 AM
#45
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I neglected to mention that when we were invited we asked if we could bring anything. It was suggested we could bring a bottle of wine and a favorite home-made appetizer. We would have brought a bottle of wine without prompting. Does this change the dynamics?
I didn't do anything.
ira, you may not believe it but sometimes people have a dry sherry before dinner, a white wine with the fish course, a red wine with the meat course and all followed by a dessert wine and/or a port/liquer after dinner.
I've seen this while watching British drawing room dramas.
I didn't do anything.
ira, you may not believe it but sometimes people have a dry sherry before dinner, a white wine with the fish course, a red wine with the meat course and all followed by a dessert wine and/or a port/liquer after dinner.
I've seen this while watching British drawing room dramas.
Dec 27th, 2006, 11:44 AM
#47
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Very interesting thread - why we even managed to get in the obligatory Rick Steve smashing here - way to go! Of course it had absolutely nothing to do with the subject of the thread but by golly he/she got it in!
Dec 27th, 2006, 01:39 PM
#48
If the bottle of red wine had not been immediately uncorked (a stupid thing to do automatically), I wouldn't dream of asking for any. I agree with ira about bringing wine for future use. Normally, the hosts have already decided which wine they want to serve.
Dec 27th, 2006, 01:59 PM
#49
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>>>>
What would you have done as a guest and supplier of the wine?
>>>>>
i'm not sure i fully understand this debate as i don't see much controversy. if your question implies that you (or others) wanted some more wine but it sat there on the side not offered (except as it was first opened), then i would certainly not start to offer it around to someone else's guests-even though i had brought it. that would be rude. they are her guests and it's her wine. if i wanted another glass and didn't mind the red, i would simply ask the host if i could have another glass...probably smiling and pointing to the open red and saying something like "I wouldn't want that to go to waste".
i don't think it's stupid to open two bottles. i wouldn't have done it but i'm not the host so i would not be critical. here in europe, it is more common to serve your own wine when a bottle is brought by a guest (my 'gift' bottle is probably served less than 20% of the time). from my experience in america, i see that it is standard for the host to serve the bottle (or bottles) brought as gifts. this is probably why the host opened both....she figured they are for the dinner as a guest-provided dessert would be. no big issues here.
What would you have done as a guest and supplier of the wine?
>>>>>
i'm not sure i fully understand this debate as i don't see much controversy. if your question implies that you (or others) wanted some more wine but it sat there on the side not offered (except as it was first opened), then i would certainly not start to offer it around to someone else's guests-even though i had brought it. that would be rude. they are her guests and it's her wine. if i wanted another glass and didn't mind the red, i would simply ask the host if i could have another glass...probably smiling and pointing to the open red and saying something like "I wouldn't want that to go to waste".
i don't think it's stupid to open two bottles. i wouldn't have done it but i'm not the host so i would not be critical. here in europe, it is more common to serve your own wine when a bottle is brought by a guest (my 'gift' bottle is probably served less than 20% of the time). from my experience in america, i see that it is standard for the host to serve the bottle (or bottles) brought as gifts. this is probably why the host opened both....she figured they are for the dinner as a guest-provided dessert would be. no big issues here.
Dec 27th, 2006, 06:29 PM
#50
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"I neglected to mention that when we were invited we asked if we could bring anything. It was suggested we could bring a bottle of wine and a favorite home-made appetizer. We would have brought a bottle of wine without prompting. Does this change the dynamics?"
Look, they were your friends. If you and they agreed to change the occasion from a dinner party to what amounts to a pot-luck party, then right off the top you all agreed to participate in an occasion which is defined precisely by its absence of clear roles for guest and host. Your question indicates that as a result, you were confused as to what to expect or how to act. Not to say anything against pot-luck parties, which can be very enjoyable between intimates, but your confusion does rather suggest that codes of behaviour for social situations are not quite as useless as our fellow poster Padraig implies.
By the way, loved the last line of your post - I found it a lot funnier than the article, as I'm sure you meant it to be.
Look, they were your friends. If you and they agreed to change the occasion from a dinner party to what amounts to a pot-luck party, then right off the top you all agreed to participate in an occasion which is defined precisely by its absence of clear roles for guest and host. Your question indicates that as a result, you were confused as to what to expect or how to act. Not to say anything against pot-luck parties, which can be very enjoyable between intimates, but your confusion does rather suggest that codes of behaviour for social situations are not quite as useless as our fellow poster Padraig implies.
By the way, loved the last line of your post - I found it a lot funnier than the article, as I'm sure you meant it to be.
Dec 28th, 2006, 07:44 AM
#51
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Sue -the hosts were "acquaintances". not close enough to be called friends and about 35 years younger. All of the participants had lost a close family member (in our case a son) recently and the hosts thought this was a way to lesson the pain of the first Christmas without them. It was.
Jan 11th, 2007, 03:25 PM
#52
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<i>It's a fork, for those who want to know. And never spread your foie gras on your toast. Eat it with a fork, and the toast separately</i>
My wife and I both were laughing during this meal tonight. We were having dinner with four Parisians-all are educated people. The table was fully loaded with the right amount of plates, knives, forks, spoons, etc. and four glasses per person. Everything was needed for a classy meal.
During one of the dishes, there was foie gras with aspic and cooked slices of apple. The utensil was one small knife. No fork available for this serving. The Parisians managed to slip the aspic onto the knives and "fork" it into the mouth. Same about the apple slices-right to the cake hole.
Of course we're the foreigners, so we went along with the others and kept using the small knife.
And yes, the foie gras was put right onto the toast.
So, the bottom line, the BBC should get a bit more time in Paris. Live in Paris has changed since they wrote their program.
Blackduff LOL
My wife and I both were laughing during this meal tonight. We were having dinner with four Parisians-all are educated people. The table was fully loaded with the right amount of plates, knives, forks, spoons, etc. and four glasses per person. Everything was needed for a classy meal.
During one of the dishes, there was foie gras with aspic and cooked slices of apple. The utensil was one small knife. No fork available for this serving. The Parisians managed to slip the aspic onto the knives and "fork" it into the mouth. Same about the apple slices-right to the cake hole.
Of course we're the foreigners, so we went along with the others and kept using the small knife.
And yes, the foie gras was put right onto the toast.
So, the bottom line, the BBC should get a bit more time in Paris. Live in Paris has changed since they wrote their program.
Blackduff LOL
sigh...
