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-   -   A famous Gypsy...or, should I say Romany? (https://www.fodors.com/community/europe/a-famous-gypsy-or-should-i-say-romany-488497/)

llamalady Nov 30th, 2004 07:23 PM

The film 'Latcho Drom' and the non-
ficton book 'Bury Me Standing' are
fascinating ways to learn more about
the often maligned Rom.

The author of the book is Isabel Fonseca
and it is subtitled 'the gypsies and
their journey'.

llamalady Nov 30th, 2004 07:24 PM

.....sorry for the repeat Fodors is
driving me even more insane than I
already am!

cigalechanta Nov 30th, 2004 07:33 PM

llamalady, Great book and Flamenco film. There's an earlier thread on "gypsy"that I suggested the same book.
Curious, do you raise llamas?

NYCFoodSnob Nov 30th, 2004 07:34 PM

<i>NYC...patrick is right, there is no excuse for prejudice.</i>

I never said or implied that Patrick was wrong and common sense can easily determine the difference between positive profiling and prejudice. Of course racism and prejudice are wrong but what on earth has happened to common sense?

The airlines have encountered one shoe bomber. He was a Middle Eastern man. Why on earth does my 78 year-old, white-haired, Irish neighbor, who walks with a cane, need to remove her shoes for some TSA agent? The issue for me is the absence of common sense. Should I be surprised that so few have it?

LoveItaly Nov 30th, 2004 07:44 PM

NYCFoodSnob. In one word. Amen!

WillTravel Nov 30th, 2004 08:01 PM

The attempted shoe bomber wasn't a Middle Eastern man. Richard Reid had a British mother and a Jamaican father, and he was a convert to radical Islam (which of course no one could tell by looking at him).

LoveItaly Nov 30th, 2004 08:15 PM

WillTravel,yes you are right.
And so lets zero in on little old ladies when they travel.

Oh travel today is so complicated.

WillTravel Nov 30th, 2004 08:23 PM

I wish there were a sensible approach. One famous triumph of sensible airport security was the case of the pregnant, redheaded Irishwoman who had (unbeknownst to her) a Jordanian terrorist boyfriend who sent her aboard El Al with a bomb in her suitcase, all the while telling her she would meet his family in Israel. From what I understand, El Al does not go by purported nationality, but by asking questions and figuring out if something doesn't add up, and various types of &quot;profiling&quot;. Anyway, she was caught, and her life, the passengers, and her unborn child's life was saved.

WillTravel Nov 30th, 2004 08:24 PM

I shouldn't say she was redhaired. I can't remember what color Anne Murphy's hair was.

LoveItaly Nov 30th, 2004 09:01 PM

WillTravel, that is quite a story. Had not heard that one. But the Israelians have a reputation of being very security savy.

Marilyn Nov 30th, 2004 09:10 PM

It's no story, LoveItaly, it's fact. I remember the incident quite well.

I also think this subject of Gypsies or Rom, whichever you chose to call them, is more complicated than can be discussed here, unless we all agree to read up on it. What I know is in line with some of what StCirq has said.

There is a subculture within the larger population that is extremely xenophobic and prides itself on stealing from and scamming &quot;outsiders.&quot; It is a way of life. There's no point in denying this -- it's a well-documented fact.

Clearly there are Rom people working some of these scams, kids in groups trying to pick pockets, mothers with small children who are trained to grab the money and run, etc.

I'm just not sure why this has become a particular phobia of Americans. I don't think it's quite as prevalent as one might think from reading this forum, and it's hard to believe the fears are in proportion to the threat.

WillTravel Nov 30th, 2004 09:11 PM

Israelis are very security-savvy, but that sort of security is very expensive and time-consuming. That, and civil rights concerns, are the reasons that approach hasn't been adopted for US airports.

I sure don't really have a good answer for airline security - I see holes everywhere I look and screening frail elderly ladies for random screening is not going to help much. But there is the possibility of a terrorist gaining the trust of an innocent person, so such searches aren't completely groundless.

MikeBuckley Nov 30th, 2004 09:24 PM

<i>Why on earth does my 78 year-old, white-haired, Irish neighbor, who walks with a cane, need to remove her shoes for some TSA agent? </i>

Because the person whose shoes are being inspected might be professionally disguised and/or acting the part.

WillTravel Nov 30th, 2004 09:30 PM

Not to be contrary (although I am half the time, but please don't take it personally), but is it really the case that Americans are more scared than other national groups of this particular ethnic subculture? I have European relatives who have similar concerns, Asian friends who have expressed similar concerns, not to mention Canadians, etc. That said, I doubt anyone has quantified the risk that any given tourist will happen to wander into one of these situations. It's probably just so memorable when it happens.

LoveItaly Nov 30th, 2004 09:44 PM

Hi Marilyn, I sure did not mean story versus fact. I meant that I had not heard of this incident. Did not express myself properly. Fighting a terrible cold so not feeling real sharp these last couple of days.

Security issues are a problem for sure.
And now women flyers are evidently having some bad experiences according to the press.

I am often pulled aside for secondary screening. Why I do not know. But just put up with it, is there any choice if one needs to fly.

The Rom or Gypsie problem is just part of the problem in Europe, especially Italy which with its long coastline gets illegal imigrants constantly. But I believe tourist are over concerned but everywhere one must be alert and take precautions.

When my Italians friends come to the US they have the same concerns that so many tourist have traveling in Europe.

Now Naples has become a bloodbath so to speak. The government is even thinking of sending in the army. Killings are back to where they were years ago, thanks to the Camorra.

Oh life, always a problem. But beautiful too.

Read an article today where a gentlemen said if his life never was any better than it was in this moment he would ask for nothing more. Good concept!

Sure hope dear Kal is doing alright. I felt so bad about his arriving home and receiving that terrible news.

Take good care.

Marilyn Nov 30th, 2004 09:50 PM

I think that's true, WillTravel, about it being memorable. As NYCFS said, it's very shocking to us, with our sensibilities about children, that they would be used to perpetrate a crime. But of course, that is a quite modern notion of childhood. You don't have to go back any farther than Dickens' Oliver Twist to find a different view.

massagediva Dec 1st, 2004 04:48 AM

Reality Check - our (American) children are running and selling drugs in our cities and sometimes paying for the priviledge with their lives. Maybe it's not in the neighborhoods in which we live,but it's happening.

ira Dec 1st, 2004 05:00 AM

&gt;It's assumed now that the Romanian gypsies we all think of when we think of gypsies derived from India originally - at least their language appears to have.&lt;

As has all of the Indo-European languages.

jahoulih Dec 1st, 2004 05:54 AM

Ira, I don't think many scholars take the view that the original homeland (the &quot;Urheimat&quot;) of the proto-Indo-Europeans was in India. I've seen arguments for the Ukraine, Southern Russia, and the Caucasus, but not India. It's clear from ancient Indian literature, among other evidence, that Indo-European speakers came from the North and invaded India, probably around 1500 B.C.

NYCFoodSnob Dec 1st, 2004 07:19 AM

I stand corrected on Reid's nationality. Maybe I should have said he <i>looked</i> Middle Eastern and crazed at that.

<i>Because the person whose shoes are being inspected might be professionally disguised and/or acting the part.</i>

After laughing loudly and sharing my laugh with all the drag queens in my life, all I can say is not one person &quot;in costume,&quot; and that includes all the arthritic travelers who travel with pain but are actually faking it, has been arrested for attempting to fulfill a terrorist plot. I surely can see why this might justify inconveniencing thousands of folks walking with canes, though. Thanks for the laugh!


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