A couple of thoughts/questions upon return from our trip to Poland, Hungary, CR
Jul 30th, 2005, 03:41 AM
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 123
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A couple of thoughts/questions upon return from our trip to Poland, Hungary, CR
Hello,
My family just returned from a trip to Central Europe. We started off with two days in Italy, visiting relatives. One of those days was spent in Como and Bellagio -- beautiful! Then we flew SkyEurope to Krakow (thanks for the tip, Rex), where we spent 5 days, went to Eger for one night, on to Budapest for five days, and Pecs to two days. Then we took the (day)train to Prague, where we spent 5 days and then to Cesky Krumlov for two days. It was a great trip.
Couple of comments first: We loved Pecs. A highlight of the trip was going to a performance of "Godspell" there (in Hungarian).
Krakow lived up to every expectation. Everyone in my family loved being there.
Prague (hope this doesn't get me in trouble) was a big disappointment after our other stops. Though it was incredibly beautiful and filled with interesting things to do, it was mobbed. It was hard to get through the crowds, hard to appreciate sights, and filled with streets lined with gift shops. We went to two performances -- marionette show and a black light theater, both of which seemed to have not a single local person in the audience (as opposed to "Godspell," where we might have been the only tourists). The black light theater performance was so bad that we left at intermission (others walked out before intermission). Prague was the only place where there were multiple "mistakes" on restaurant bills. Maybe if we'd started with Prague, I would have liked it more, but it was just too crowded and touristy after the other places we'd been.
I have two questions:
Three out of the four of us are vegetarians and finding vegetarian meals is always an "issue" when we travel. We had an incredibly easy time on this trip. Many restaurants in Krakow, Hungary, and CR had vegetarian/meatless pages in the menus or, in the more touristy places, advertised vegetarian meals on signs or in windows. Finding veg. food was much easier for us than it had been in Italy or Scandinavia and definitely easier than finding quality vegetarian food in the US. So, my questions is -- are there many vegetarians living in these countries or are there many vegetarian visitors?
My other questions is about the Jewish Quarter in Prague. We'd been to many Jewish sites in the other countries (including Auschwitz-Birkenau)and found them to be moving and interesting. In Krakow we were the only people in the Jewish cemetery. Then we went to Prague, where the crowds in the Jewish Quarter were so thick we could hardly move and we were greeted immediately by the sign for the Old Synagogue gift shop. We were amazed by the prices of admission for the synagogues and cemetery. The price for the Old-New Synagogue was approx. $8.00 a person, which meant spending $32.00 for our family for a very "quick" sight. While it was amazing being in a building so old and so meaningful, that amount was shocking compared to what we spent on admissions elsewhere, even in other parts of Prague. Why are admission prices so high in the Jewish Quarter in Prague?
Anyway, thanks for helping to make this trip so successful!
My family just returned from a trip to Central Europe. We started off with two days in Italy, visiting relatives. One of those days was spent in Como and Bellagio -- beautiful! Then we flew SkyEurope to Krakow (thanks for the tip, Rex), where we spent 5 days, went to Eger for one night, on to Budapest for five days, and Pecs to two days. Then we took the (day)train to Prague, where we spent 5 days and then to Cesky Krumlov for two days. It was a great trip.
Couple of comments first: We loved Pecs. A highlight of the trip was going to a performance of "Godspell" there (in Hungarian).
Krakow lived up to every expectation. Everyone in my family loved being there.
Prague (hope this doesn't get me in trouble) was a big disappointment after our other stops. Though it was incredibly beautiful and filled with interesting things to do, it was mobbed. It was hard to get through the crowds, hard to appreciate sights, and filled with streets lined with gift shops. We went to two performances -- marionette show and a black light theater, both of which seemed to have not a single local person in the audience (as opposed to "Godspell," where we might have been the only tourists). The black light theater performance was so bad that we left at intermission (others walked out before intermission). Prague was the only place where there were multiple "mistakes" on restaurant bills. Maybe if we'd started with Prague, I would have liked it more, but it was just too crowded and touristy after the other places we'd been.
I have two questions:
Three out of the four of us are vegetarians and finding vegetarian meals is always an "issue" when we travel. We had an incredibly easy time on this trip. Many restaurants in Krakow, Hungary, and CR had vegetarian/meatless pages in the menus or, in the more touristy places, advertised vegetarian meals on signs or in windows. Finding veg. food was much easier for us than it had been in Italy or Scandinavia and definitely easier than finding quality vegetarian food in the US. So, my questions is -- are there many vegetarians living in these countries or are there many vegetarian visitors?
My other questions is about the Jewish Quarter in Prague. We'd been to many Jewish sites in the other countries (including Auschwitz-Birkenau)and found them to be moving and interesting. In Krakow we were the only people in the Jewish cemetery. Then we went to Prague, where the crowds in the Jewish Quarter were so thick we could hardly move and we were greeted immediately by the sign for the Old Synagogue gift shop. We were amazed by the prices of admission for the synagogues and cemetery. The price for the Old-New Synagogue was approx. $8.00 a person, which meant spending $32.00 for our family for a very "quick" sight. While it was amazing being in a building so old and so meaningful, that amount was shocking compared to what we spent on admissions elsewhere, even in other parts of Prague. Why are admission prices so high in the Jewish Quarter in Prague?
Anyway, thanks for helping to make this trip so successful!
Jul 30th, 2005, 04:23 AM
#2
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 359
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I enjoyed reading your reflections from the trip. Glad you enjoyed most of it! Your Prague experience was similar to my Venice experience - I felt like I was supposed to love it, but just couldn't based on the tourist overload and super jacked-up prices.
I can't speak much for vegetarianism in Poland or Hungary - but have Czech/Slovak relatives and have briefly lived there, as a vegetarian (I didn't start out as a vegetarian, but shortly after arriving had some risotto that had a piece of pork in it with pig hair still attached to it - or at least that's what I thought it was - but it was so disgusting I didn't eat meat the rest of the time). Anyway - back before the Iron Curtain fell meat was VERY expensive in the former Czechoslovakia - you'd have to work a day for a kilo (2.2lbs) of meat. So it was a luxury and a lot of folks ate things that used no or small amounts of meat. I have found that this "meat as luxury" mindset still holds for my friends and relatives there - they enjoy their meats and can't understand vegetarianism. In fact, while I lived there, I never met anyone who was a vegetarian. So, in my experience, I would say that no, vegetarianism is not common; in fact, quite the opposite.
I am glad that you had an easy time finding meatless dishes - often, the only options on the menu for me would be fried cheese or crepes.
I can't speak much for vegetarianism in Poland or Hungary - but have Czech/Slovak relatives and have briefly lived there, as a vegetarian (I didn't start out as a vegetarian, but shortly after arriving had some risotto that had a piece of pork in it with pig hair still attached to it - or at least that's what I thought it was - but it was so disgusting I didn't eat meat the rest of the time). Anyway - back before the Iron Curtain fell meat was VERY expensive in the former Czechoslovakia - you'd have to work a day for a kilo (2.2lbs) of meat. So it was a luxury and a lot of folks ate things that used no or small amounts of meat. I have found that this "meat as luxury" mindset still holds for my friends and relatives there - they enjoy their meats and can't understand vegetarianism. In fact, while I lived there, I never met anyone who was a vegetarian. So, in my experience, I would say that no, vegetarianism is not common; in fact, quite the opposite.
I am glad that you had an easy time finding meatless dishes - often, the only options on the menu for me would be fried cheese or crepes.
Jul 30th, 2005, 10:02 AM
#3
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,194
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm glad that SkyEurope worked out for you, and I appreciate the kind remarks. For many of the low-cost intra-Europe airlines, there are frequently no specific comments on this forum from Fodorites who have used them. I wonder if you would be willing to make a separate specific post, mentioning "SkyEurope flight to Krakow" in the message header, and telling more about your experience at the airport(s) and with the flight.
Best wishes,
Rex
Best wishes,
Rex
Aug 2nd, 2005, 06:17 AM
#6
Original Poster
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 123
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Suzanne97 - I'm so glad someone else thought those prices were out of line. We wanted to see the cemetery, but chose not to, based on prices. We rationalized our decision by thinking about how crowded it would have been, anyway.
Aug 2nd, 2005, 10:28 AM
#8
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 19,419
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I agree with Hunnym - the price of meat must be a factor. When I lived Russia, Belarus - anybody who's not a meat eater would be considered a freak. Not drinking vodka? - also a freak 
The admission prices depend on demand. If people pay, the prices are up.
The admission prices depend on demand. If people pay, the prices are up.
Aug 2nd, 2005, 10:46 AM
#9
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,637
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If you have interest in knowing what the Jewish Museum of Prague spends its money on (the foundation runs the Synagogue museums) the website is
www.jewishmuseum.cz
here are a couple of excerpts:
"The Jewish Museum in Prague Foundation contributes to various types of projects, particularly educational programmes arranged by Jewish communities in the Czech Republic which seek to familiarise the public with the customs and culture of the Jewish community in Bohemia and Moravia. The Foundation also supports permanent and temporary exhibitions that document the history of Jews in individual regions of the Czech Republic, as well as the publication of works by Jewish authors and of works on the history of Czech Jews (see Foundation Statute). Specific support has been provided, for example, for a Czech edition of Anne Frank’s diary (published by Triáda), an exhibition on the history of Jewish sport and an exhibition on the history of Judaism which was presented by the Jewish Community in Dìèín."
and other activities include
"tracing of information relating to groups and individuals included in registers of Holocaust victims from the territory of the former Protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia
tracing of information via databases of testimonies on the basis of individual events, localities and names
texts and documents relating to the Holocaust of Bohemian and Moravian Jews for other than exhibition purposes
consultation and information relating to the Holocaust of Bohemian and Moravian Jews
research services – copies of archive materials, literature and testimonies
literature searches, interpretations, expert opinions and relevant information
expert advice and supervision in the making of films, video recordings and television programmes
photographs of inscriptions from the Pinkas Synagogue
photographs, digital and laser prints and Xerox copies from the collections
text amendments and additions to the texts in the Pinkas Synagogue"
also
" the administration of a photography collection from the Holocaust period and of a series of tape-recorded narratives of Holocaust survivors; the latter is an ongoing project that was launched in 1990. This section has at its disposal records - in the form of card indexes, registers and a special computer programme - of Holocaust victims from the territory of the former Protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia and of Jewish victims from Germany, Austria, Holland and Slovakia who passed through the Terezín ghetto. Staff provide information, research services, photographic records from the Pinkas Synagogue and, where required, searches for data relating to Holocaust victims (both individuals and groups)."
I've been to Prague twice. I've been on the Jewish Synagogue tours twice, and have paid the admission fees. I found them well worth it,and a moving experience especially when I consider the price of a movie in the USA these days. The Museum of Modern Art in New York charges $20 admission; I find that worth it as well.
I have been to Prague in March and in April, so crowds have not been a negative factor.
I am sure in summer it would be a different experience.
www.jewishmuseum.cz
here are a couple of excerpts:
"The Jewish Museum in Prague Foundation contributes to various types of projects, particularly educational programmes arranged by Jewish communities in the Czech Republic which seek to familiarise the public with the customs and culture of the Jewish community in Bohemia and Moravia. The Foundation also supports permanent and temporary exhibitions that document the history of Jews in individual regions of the Czech Republic, as well as the publication of works by Jewish authors and of works on the history of Czech Jews (see Foundation Statute). Specific support has been provided, for example, for a Czech edition of Anne Frank’s diary (published by Triáda), an exhibition on the history of Jewish sport and an exhibition on the history of Judaism which was presented by the Jewish Community in Dìèín."
and other activities include
"tracing of information relating to groups and individuals included in registers of Holocaust victims from the territory of the former Protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia
tracing of information via databases of testimonies on the basis of individual events, localities and names
texts and documents relating to the Holocaust of Bohemian and Moravian Jews for other than exhibition purposes
consultation and information relating to the Holocaust of Bohemian and Moravian Jews
research services – copies of archive materials, literature and testimonies
literature searches, interpretations, expert opinions and relevant information
expert advice and supervision in the making of films, video recordings and television programmes
photographs of inscriptions from the Pinkas Synagogue
photographs, digital and laser prints and Xerox copies from the collections
text amendments and additions to the texts in the Pinkas Synagogue"
also
" the administration of a photography collection from the Holocaust period and of a series of tape-recorded narratives of Holocaust survivors; the latter is an ongoing project that was launched in 1990. This section has at its disposal records - in the form of card indexes, registers and a special computer programme - of Holocaust victims from the territory of the former Protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia and of Jewish victims from Germany, Austria, Holland and Slovakia who passed through the Terezín ghetto. Staff provide information, research services, photographic records from the Pinkas Synagogue and, where required, searches for data relating to Holocaust victims (both individuals and groups)."
I've been to Prague twice. I've been on the Jewish Synagogue tours twice, and have paid the admission fees. I found them well worth it,and a moving experience especially when I consider the price of a movie in the USA these days. The Museum of Modern Art in New York charges $20 admission; I find that worth it as well.
I have been to Prague in March and in April, so crowds have not been a negative factor.
I am sure in summer it would be a different experience.
Aug 2nd, 2005, 11:15 AM
#10
Original Poster
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 123
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Elaine,
Thank you for the explanation of the Jewish Museum. I still think the admission prices were too high (I don't remember even our tour of Auschwitz-Birkenau being as high), but I think my feelings about the crowds and gift shops influenced my decision. I'm sure the price of the horrible Black Light Theater performance we attended and the fact that we had to deal with cover charges at restaurants (Prague being the only place where we had to deal with that in our three week travels) made us think more about money, also. There was just something that felt crummy about it -- wanting to expose my daughters to the realities/horrors of the Jewish quarters in the central European cities we visited (and feeling that we were able to do that in the other cities and towns), but feeling that these prices had more to do with seeing what the market would bear than with providing opportunities for education and reflection. Again, thanks for the information.
Thank you for the explanation of the Jewish Museum. I still think the admission prices were too high (I don't remember even our tour of Auschwitz-Birkenau being as high), but I think my feelings about the crowds and gift shops influenced my decision. I'm sure the price of the horrible Black Light Theater performance we attended and the fact that we had to deal with cover charges at restaurants (Prague being the only place where we had to deal with that in our three week travels) made us think more about money, also. There was just something that felt crummy about it -- wanting to expose my daughters to the realities/horrors of the Jewish quarters in the central European cities we visited (and feeling that we were able to do that in the other cities and towns), but feeling that these prices had more to do with seeing what the market would bear than with providing opportunities for education and reflection. Again, thanks for the information.
Aug 2nd, 2005, 11:20 AM
#11
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,637
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I can sympathize with the Black Light Theatre experience, as on my second trip to Prague earlier this year, my friend insisted on our getting tickets to one of the marionette theatres. It was perfectly dreadful, and at intermission she sheepishly suggested we leave, which we did. Root canal would have been time and money better spent, talking of rip-offs.
Aug 2nd, 2005, 11:40 AM
#12
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,637
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I wanted to add, I just love Prague, but I'm a bit worried that it's turning itself into a kind of ye olde theme-park experience, inevitable I guess, in a relatively small city center that draws huge crowds. I worry about my beloved Venice for the same reason.
Again,not having been to either place in June through August, I can only imagine the extreme congestion coupled with the heat. Prague has come late to the tourist game, just since the end of the communist era really, and, again like Venice, there are many opportunities to have bad food, bad prices, or discomfort. It helps to go there in the low or shoulder seasons, to do a lot of research,and to get off the beaten track a bit.
Regarding crowds, this past April in the Jewish quarter, it was not mobbed but busy, and we were appalled by the bad behavior of some of our fellow tourists, notably large, loud, and loutish groups of Italian teens. It did affect our experience seeing the synagogues, and I was glad it was my 2nd visit and not my 1st. For me, that is how the 'worth it' factor comes into play--it's not the admission price per se, but the quality of the experience once inside.
Again,not having been to either place in June through August, I can only imagine the extreme congestion coupled with the heat. Prague has come late to the tourist game, just since the end of the communist era really, and, again like Venice, there are many opportunities to have bad food, bad prices, or discomfort. It helps to go there in the low or shoulder seasons, to do a lot of research,and to get off the beaten track a bit.
Regarding crowds, this past April in the Jewish quarter, it was not mobbed but busy, and we were appalled by the bad behavior of some of our fellow tourists, notably large, loud, and loutish groups of Italian teens. It did affect our experience seeing the synagogues, and I was glad it was my 2nd visit and not my 1st. For me, that is how the 'worth it' factor comes into play--it's not the admission price per se, but the quality of the experience once inside.
Aug 2nd, 2005, 06:28 PM
#13
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 57,890
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Elaine -
I couldn;t agree with you more about the museum - amazingly moving and worthwhile. Granted $8 isn;t free - but given that the latest Hollywood trash costs $10-$12 for two hours of generally mind-numbing tedium - a real bargain.
As for the black lightshow - that is a very touristy thing to do. Not surprised there were no locals there. Prague has dozens of good quality musical performances each week - from full-blown operas in an incredibly beautiful opera house - to very informal (and low cost - sometimes even free) concerts in churches and other public venues. (We were there one year during the music festival and even saw a band of Incas [I believe] playing on a street corner.) These are always well-atttended by locals - and the Town Hall always has a list of the current programs.
I'm sorry you didn;t enjoy Prague - to me it's one of the great cities of the world - not only because of it's survival of WWII almost intact - but because of it's unique long history of religious tolerance and multi-cultural richness. And yes it is more crowded than many other places - preceisely because it has so much to offer - and at usually very reasonable prices.
I couldn;t agree with you more about the museum - amazingly moving and worthwhile. Granted $8 isn;t free - but given that the latest Hollywood trash costs $10-$12 for two hours of generally mind-numbing tedium - a real bargain.
As for the black lightshow - that is a very touristy thing to do. Not surprised there were no locals there. Prague has dozens of good quality musical performances each week - from full-blown operas in an incredibly beautiful opera house - to very informal (and low cost - sometimes even free) concerts in churches and other public venues. (We were there one year during the music festival and even saw a band of Incas [I believe] playing on a street corner.) These are always well-atttended by locals - and the Town Hall always has a list of the current programs.
I'm sorry you didn;t enjoy Prague - to me it's one of the great cities of the world - not only because of it's survival of WWII almost intact - but because of it's unique long history of religious tolerance and multi-cultural richness. And yes it is more crowded than many other places - preceisely because it has so much to offer - and at usually very reasonable prices.
Aug 3rd, 2005, 10:29 AM
#14
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,637
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
yes, I haven't seen too many things, thankfully, on my travels that I felt were complete wastes of time and money, not to mention an affront to my sense of aesthetics, such as it is.
The Prague Marionette Theater is now right up there, right down there, I mean, with the London Dungeon, though I rush to say again that going to see the puppets wasn't MY choice. I imagine I'd feel the same about Black Light. I think when something subsists purely on tourists, it's a bad bet.
The Prague Marionette Theater is now right up there, right down there, I mean, with the London Dungeon, though I rush to say again that going to see the puppets wasn't MY choice. I imagine I'd feel the same about Black Light. I think when something subsists purely on tourists, it's a bad bet.
Aug 3rd, 2005, 11:59 AM
#15
Original Poster
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 123
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi Elaine,
I'm almost embarrassed to write this, but not only did we go to a Black Light performance one night, but we ALSO went to a marionette performance on a different night!! In my defense (just the teensiest bit, because I agree with you that I should have been wary of something so targeted at tourists), Rick Steves listed the Black Light theater as recommended "entertainment" in his book. I even went to the particular one (something Fantastika) he recommended. Oh well, I'll know better next time...
I'm almost embarrassed to write this, but not only did we go to a Black Light performance one night, but we ALSO went to a marionette performance on a different night!! In my defense (just the teensiest bit, because I agree with you that I should have been wary of something so targeted at tourists), Rick Steves listed the Black Light theater as recommended "entertainment" in his book. I even went to the particular one (something Fantastika) he recommended. Oh well, I'll know better next time...
Aug 3rd, 2005, 12:07 PM
#16
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,637
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
good lessons learned, I guess
I have to say that I've always felt that I would never take Rick Steves's recommendations on food or entertainment, unless the recs were supported elsewhere. I'd listen to him perhaps on practical tips, but not on matters of personal taste. I'd rather make those mistakes on my own.
I have to say that I've always felt that I would never take Rick Steves's recommendations on food or entertainment, unless the recs were supported elsewhere. I'd listen to him perhaps on practical tips, but not on matters of personal taste. I'd rather make those mistakes on my own.
Aug 3rd, 2005, 12:14 PM
#17
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 560
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I was very dissappointed with my first trip to Prague and Venice. However, in Prague I did pay to go into all the Jewish sites - and felt it was the most interesting and moving thing I've ever done in Europe. It was the only thing that saved the city for me. My daughter, niece and I were all very moved and fascinated.
I forced myself to return to Venice in June - my second trip - and it was the charm. I loved it. So I'm not giving up on Prague.... sometimes it just takes an extra time or two to fall in love.
I forced myself to return to Venice in June - my second trip - and it was the charm. I loved it. So I'm not giving up on Prague.... sometimes it just takes an extra time or two to fall in love.
Thread
Original Poster
Forum
Replies
Last Post
lmavolio
Europe
36
Aug 31st, 2005 10:28 AM
