A Cautionary tale of apartment rental goes missing
Jan 23rd, 2010, 12:58 PM
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A Cautionary tale of apartment rental goes missing
Over the past few days my review of an apartment in Paris had received over 120 comments and seemed to me to be a useful discussion on not only my experiences of vacation rental, but many others.
This thread has now disappeared.
I am posting my original review,however much valuable information is now lost for future users of this forum.
We are generally laid back, pragmatic Aussie travelers who have had many different sorts of experiences in our thirty years of wandering the world. I have never felt the need to spend the time and effort I have done on this dispute and I suppose I am publishing this review of the apartment and the complaint process which followed so that others can make informed decisions when considering staying in this apartment.
I have sent this review to Vacations in Paris prior to publishing so they can comment on or challenge my claims and I have had no response.
We needed an apartment in Paris in October, 2009 that slept 6 people in 4 beds, had a full kitchen and was near the Marais. We decided on 15 rue du Grenier St Lazare as it slept 6 people in 3 queen sized beds and one sofa bed. My dealings with Vacations in Paris, who were the rental agency, in the pre-rental period were prompt and professional.
http://www.vacationinparis.com/apts/id_199.htm
The property manager met us on arrival and briefly showed us around the apartment and first impressions were that, although it was a mish-mash of decoration, it was of an acceptable standard. However, a closer inspection found it to be dirty and not as described in the online information provided by the rental agency.
The beds are far from ‘queen sized’ and the one in the third bedroom was simply a thin mattress on a wire base. But worse, there was no sofa bed which caused considerable inconvenience to 2 of the guests who were required to share a bed – not something which had been foreseen.
Also, the kitchen in particular was dirty and the oven unusable as it was coated with many months of caked on grease. The walls and light switches throughout were dirty and sticky to touch and strange detritus was stacked into the cupboards in the kitchen and bathroom. This included prescription medicines and plastic bottles filled with unidentifiable liquids.
We asked that the apartment be cleaned again and the manager sent a ‘maid’ (his terms) the next day who sprayed the surfaces, but realistically the place needed a complete, detailed clean, so this made little effect. She did not attempt to tackle the oven so it remained unusable throughout our stay.
The bathroom sink sprung a leak and flooded dirty water all over the floor, which we had to clean up with our towels (no mop) and although the manager stated a plumber would look at the leak this did not occur during our stay and the sink was not functional. In fact, the manager later stated ‘he (the handyman) found just the pipe unplugged and he just plugged it in. The handyman said that he got the impression that someone had unplugged it and didn't even charge for his time’. I took this to mean one of us that had unplugged a pipe in the cupboard to flood the floor in our apartment during our stay so we would render the sink unusable. Makes sense! In fact I took great exception to this claim and asked VIP to clarify what was actually meant, but have had no response to this request yet.
Also, the lighting throughout the apartment was poor and posed a safety concern. In the main bedroom the only light was in the form of a small bedside light which had to be plugged into a socket near the door. There was no over head light, or sockets near the bed. This light went on and off as anyone walked on the floor past it (no table to put it on). The light fittings when present often included exposed electrical wiring and appeared to have not been professionally fitted. When we voiced our worries regarding the condition of the lighting and the apartment generally Joseph replied the apartment ‘was old – that’s how things were’.
Photos of the apartment can be viewed here:
http://s816.photobucket.com/albums/z...azare%20Paris/
Since our visit I have forwarded these photos as evidence of my concerns to VIP and although the replies from them have always been polite they have never actually deal with the condition of the apartment, and in particular, undertake any action to remedy its shortcomings.
Richard from VIP sent me the Paris manager’s response to my concerns which did not actually address the condition of the property, and then I was offered $100 compensation for the apartment not being as advertised. I rejected this and made another proposal to compensate for the inconvenience caused – particularly to the two guests who were required to sleep together. Rick has said he will contact the owners, but is not hopeful of compensation.
In summary, I realise the apartment is not a ‘luxury’ apartment, but, as consumers, we have a right to expect the apartment to serve it’s purpose – that is, to provide a safe, clean place where we were able to cook our own meals and sleep in the configurations we required.
I asked that VIP look into these matters - not only on our behalf but also on behalf of other, future guests, and in fact on behalf of their company, too. Richard has stated that the apartment will be inspected in the future and that rental terms and conditions cover such inconsistencies as the sleeping arrangements not being as advertised. Reference to the sofa bed has since been removed from the web site; however the beds are still described as ‘queen sized’.
We will be continuing to request compensation from the rental agency on the basis that, whenever goods and services are purchased, they should ‘conform to contract’. This means that they must be as described, be fit for purpose and of a satisfactory quality. One of the guests is a resident of an EU country and will be completing a complaint form through the UK European Consumer Centre which deals with customer disputes concerning goods purchased in member states should this compensation not be forthcoming.
This thread has now disappeared.
I am posting my original review,however much valuable information is now lost for future users of this forum.
We are generally laid back, pragmatic Aussie travelers who have had many different sorts of experiences in our thirty years of wandering the world. I have never felt the need to spend the time and effort I have done on this dispute and I suppose I am publishing this review of the apartment and the complaint process which followed so that others can make informed decisions when considering staying in this apartment.
I have sent this review to Vacations in Paris prior to publishing so they can comment on or challenge my claims and I have had no response.
We needed an apartment in Paris in October, 2009 that slept 6 people in 4 beds, had a full kitchen and was near the Marais. We decided on 15 rue du Grenier St Lazare as it slept 6 people in 3 queen sized beds and one sofa bed. My dealings with Vacations in Paris, who were the rental agency, in the pre-rental period were prompt and professional.
http://www.vacationinparis.com/apts/id_199.htm
The property manager met us on arrival and briefly showed us around the apartment and first impressions were that, although it was a mish-mash of decoration, it was of an acceptable standard. However, a closer inspection found it to be dirty and not as described in the online information provided by the rental agency.
The beds are far from ‘queen sized’ and the one in the third bedroom was simply a thin mattress on a wire base. But worse, there was no sofa bed which caused considerable inconvenience to 2 of the guests who were required to share a bed – not something which had been foreseen.
Also, the kitchen in particular was dirty and the oven unusable as it was coated with many months of caked on grease. The walls and light switches throughout were dirty and sticky to touch and strange detritus was stacked into the cupboards in the kitchen and bathroom. This included prescription medicines and plastic bottles filled with unidentifiable liquids.
We asked that the apartment be cleaned again and the manager sent a ‘maid’ (his terms) the next day who sprayed the surfaces, but realistically the place needed a complete, detailed clean, so this made little effect. She did not attempt to tackle the oven so it remained unusable throughout our stay.
The bathroom sink sprung a leak and flooded dirty water all over the floor, which we had to clean up with our towels (no mop) and although the manager stated a plumber would look at the leak this did not occur during our stay and the sink was not functional. In fact, the manager later stated ‘he (the handyman) found just the pipe unplugged and he just plugged it in. The handyman said that he got the impression that someone had unplugged it and didn't even charge for his time’. I took this to mean one of us that had unplugged a pipe in the cupboard to flood the floor in our apartment during our stay so we would render the sink unusable. Makes sense! In fact I took great exception to this claim and asked VIP to clarify what was actually meant, but have had no response to this request yet.
Also, the lighting throughout the apartment was poor and posed a safety concern. In the main bedroom the only light was in the form of a small bedside light which had to be plugged into a socket near the door. There was no over head light, or sockets near the bed. This light went on and off as anyone walked on the floor past it (no table to put it on). The light fittings when present often included exposed electrical wiring and appeared to have not been professionally fitted. When we voiced our worries regarding the condition of the lighting and the apartment generally Joseph replied the apartment ‘was old – that’s how things were’.
Photos of the apartment can be viewed here:
http://s816.photobucket.com/albums/z...azare%20Paris/
Since our visit I have forwarded these photos as evidence of my concerns to VIP and although the replies from them have always been polite they have never actually deal with the condition of the apartment, and in particular, undertake any action to remedy its shortcomings.
Richard from VIP sent me the Paris manager’s response to my concerns which did not actually address the condition of the property, and then I was offered $100 compensation for the apartment not being as advertised. I rejected this and made another proposal to compensate for the inconvenience caused – particularly to the two guests who were required to sleep together. Rick has said he will contact the owners, but is not hopeful of compensation.
In summary, I realise the apartment is not a ‘luxury’ apartment, but, as consumers, we have a right to expect the apartment to serve it’s purpose – that is, to provide a safe, clean place where we were able to cook our own meals and sleep in the configurations we required.
I asked that VIP look into these matters - not only on our behalf but also on behalf of other, future guests, and in fact on behalf of their company, too. Richard has stated that the apartment will be inspected in the future and that rental terms and conditions cover such inconsistencies as the sleeping arrangements not being as advertised. Reference to the sofa bed has since been removed from the web site; however the beds are still described as ‘queen sized’.
We will be continuing to request compensation from the rental agency on the basis that, whenever goods and services are purchased, they should ‘conform to contract’. This means that they must be as described, be fit for purpose and of a satisfactory quality. One of the guests is a resident of an EU country and will be completing a complaint form through the UK European Consumer Centre which deals with customer disputes concerning goods purchased in member states should this compensation not be forthcoming.
Jan 23rd, 2010, 01:04 PM
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I have commented on posters feedback in the previous thread - thank you all for taking the time to post and it's been most educational. I'll leaving my input on this experience at that.
Jan 23rd, 2010, 02:16 PM
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Sorry you just lost a lot of credibility.
The initial post on this new thread is exactly that of the original, even though it was already discussed and you were given various opinions you want to start again. Which makes me wonder whether you really do have a grudge going since you seem determined to have your story here again.
It certainly looks like you are using this forum to bash a company you have a dispute.
The initial post on this new thread is exactly that of the original, even though it was already discussed and you were given various opinions you want to start again. Which makes me wonder whether you really do have a grudge going since you seem determined to have your story here again.
It certainly looks like you are using this forum to bash a company you have a dispute.
Jan 23rd, 2010, 02:22 PM
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I have often asked for posters (as recently as the day YOU first posted, Lizzie) to be removed from this site because of advertising or unnecessary and unethical venting. Yours was CERTAINLY not one.
I, like other posters EXCEPT Mitch59, whom I now must consider to be a shill, kept saying this over and over again: You were EXEMPLARY. I never once thought that you were using the post as an agency blackmail, and for Mitch59 to claim your are committing exhortion is an outright lie. You did not use the name of the rental agency in your post line and you had given the agency warning of your posting so that they could comment. You listed detail, detail, detail. After your complaints, the agency certainly changed the terms of their apt posting; they did NOT, however, remove the listing from their site nor state "photos not representative of apt condition". And they should have.
I am not a new poster and I can go on record as never having rented an apartment from any agency overseas (nor do I plan to in the near future), so there's nothing in it for me to stick up for you. I also stated in the previous thread that the $100 offered you was about as good as you could expect under the circumstances (especially since you stayed there), but as I stated, I would have refused that in your shoes because it would have been supporting a bad business practice.
Shame, shame, shame VIP and shame, shame, shame Mitch59 for supporting unethical representation.
I, like other posters EXCEPT Mitch59, whom I now must consider to be a shill, kept saying this over and over again: You were EXEMPLARY. I never once thought that you were using the post as an agency blackmail, and for Mitch59 to claim your are committing exhortion is an outright lie. You did not use the name of the rental agency in your post line and you had given the agency warning of your posting so that they could comment. You listed detail, detail, detail. After your complaints, the agency certainly changed the terms of their apt posting; they did NOT, however, remove the listing from their site nor state "photos not representative of apt condition". And they should have.
I am not a new poster and I can go on record as never having rented an apartment from any agency overseas (nor do I plan to in the near future), so there's nothing in it for me to stick up for you. I also stated in the previous thread that the $100 offered you was about as good as you could expect under the circumstances (especially since you stayed there), but as I stated, I would have refused that in your shoes because it would have been supporting a bad business practice.
Shame, shame, shame VIP and shame, shame, shame Mitch59 for supporting unethical representation.
Jan 23rd, 2010, 02:46 PM
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For anyone interesrted, information on why Lizzy's first post was pulled read:
VIRUS ALERT from Fodors Europe Thread: wwwsupercars
blogspot Posted by: tedgale on Jan 23, 10 at 9:38am
It has dropped down to the 40th or so post.
I also am glad Lizzv reposted. I see this as her oppinion with pictures to surpport her feeling.
We have also stayed in a place that was less than presented, at the same time asking, as Lizzy did, for the agent to make needed fixes. MOVING sometimes is not a option if your time is limited. And by the time you find some of the problems, the aggent already has your money.
I am not a new poster and use Fodors as a source for places to stay, tour guides and places to eat. I also check Fodors to see if there are good or bad comments on things/places I am thinking about for the area we are visiting. Comments and especially pictures are important to me, Again I am glad Lizzy posted her report.
VIRUS ALERT from Fodors Europe Thread: wwwsupercars
blogspot Posted by: tedgale on Jan 23, 10 at 9:38am
It has dropped down to the 40th or so post.
I also am glad Lizzv reposted. I see this as her oppinion with pictures to surpport her feeling.
We have also stayed in a place that was less than presented, at the same time asking, as Lizzy did, for the agent to make needed fixes. MOVING sometimes is not a option if your time is limited. And by the time you find some of the problems, the aggent already has your money.
I am not a new poster and use Fodors as a source for places to stay, tour guides and places to eat. I also check Fodors to see if there are good or bad comments on things/places I am thinking about for the area we are visiting. Comments and especially pictures are important to me, Again I am glad Lizzy posted her report.
Jan 23rd, 2010, 03:04 PM
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suze,
That is true...same thing goes for B&B's. For that matter even hotels don't always live up to their PR.
This past year, on our long trip, I only reserved cottages, apts, B&Bs and hotels that had lots of pictures of the bedrooms, bathrooms, kitchens etc posted on their website or had several good reports on the travelsites I follow. Otherwise, I was afraid the property probably was not as nice as stated. I have been burned several times.
That is true...same thing goes for B&B's. For that matter even hotels don't always live up to their PR.
This past year, on our long trip, I only reserved cottages, apts, B&Bs and hotels that had lots of pictures of the bedrooms, bathrooms, kitchens etc posted on their website or had several good reports on the travelsites I follow. Otherwise, I was afraid the property probably was not as nice as stated. I have been burned several times.
Jan 23rd, 2010, 03:15 PM
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Lizzy,
Thank you for re-posting. As I mentioned in a previous thread, it is posts like yours that are invaluable to us who do travel overseas often and like to rent apartments. Celtic - the value of reposting OP's original thread is that in the future travelers who come to this form to seek reviews of apartments and/or agencies will now be able to find this thread. This is not a credibility issue - it is a service to fellow travelers.
A
Thank you for re-posting. As I mentioned in a previous thread, it is posts like yours that are invaluable to us who do travel overseas often and like to rent apartments. Celtic - the value of reposting OP's original thread is that in the future travelers who come to this form to seek reviews of apartments and/or agencies will now be able to find this thread. This is not a credibility issue - it is a service to fellow travelers.
A
Jan 23rd, 2010, 03:17 PM
#10
cwn~ Very true. I know the whole apartment rental thing is really popular here with people on Fodor's, especially for Paris. And I have friends who have done it, with mixed results.
It just seems like so much more of a gamble to me. Sure sometimes a hotel is not exactly as you expected, but it's a LOT easier to have a good idea what you'll be walking into.
It just seems like so much more of a gamble to me. Sure sometimes a hotel is not exactly as you expected, but it's a LOT easier to have a good idea what you'll be walking into.
Jan 23rd, 2010, 03:18 PM
#11
<B>Lizzy101:</B>
1) Fodors editors removed your earlier thread - for what ever reason. Either they thought it had run its course and was becoming a bash VIP thread, or because of some of the questionable posts. It is pretty bad form to re-post it when Fodors decided the original should be nuked.
2) You made your point on the first thread - no need to repeat it . .
3) This is not really a trip report and shouldn't be tagged as such.
4) IF the editors delete this one too -- then please take it as a sign that they don't think it belongs on the forum . . . .
1) Fodors editors removed your earlier thread - for what ever reason. Either they thought it had run its course and was becoming a bash VIP thread, or because of some of the questionable posts. It is pretty bad form to re-post it when Fodors decided the original should be nuked.
2) You made your point on the first thread - no need to repeat it . .
3) This is not really a trip report and shouldn't be tagged as such.
4) IF the editors delete this one too -- then please take it as a sign that they don't think it belongs on the forum . . . .
Jan 23rd, 2010, 03:28 PM
#13
I also read elsewhere that the thread had a virus was the reason given for deletion.
But I do agree if this thread gets deleted, they're trying to tell you something. And it's not a Trip Report.
But I do agree if this thread gets deleted, they're trying to tell you something. And it's not a Trip Report.
Jan 23rd, 2010, 03:40 PM
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Here is the reason the first post was removed...it will save having to guess or read the post above. There was a virus link posted on a number of threads. It was not Lizzy actual subject.
julia_t on Jan 23, 10 at 11:41am
At around 10.30am GMT I reported this to the editors as I noticed that this fuqdaskul had topped quite a few threads on the Europe forum, at the rate of one every minute. I did not click on the link. I also thought the name slightly offensive and it struck me as a bit wrong - us nice people on fodors don't have names like that!
Returning to the forum now they all seem to have been deleted.
Sorry to read about your problem tedgale, and hope it can be resolved.
And:
julia_t on Jan 23, 10 at 1:27pm
I first came across it on wrenwood's trip report. It was totally irrelevant to the subject.
I then found it on Barb's thread about Paris apartments.
I clicked on the poster's name, and saw 'they' had been topping lots of threads on the Europe forum.
Because of the peculiar name and the actual name of the link, I was suspicious and alerted the Fodors editors.
julia_t on Jan 23, 10 at 11:41am
At around 10.30am GMT I reported this to the editors as I noticed that this fuqdaskul had topped quite a few threads on the Europe forum, at the rate of one every minute. I did not click on the link. I also thought the name slightly offensive and it struck me as a bit wrong - us nice people on fodors don't have names like that!
Returning to the forum now they all seem to have been deleted.
Sorry to read about your problem tedgale, and hope it can be resolved.
And:
julia_t on Jan 23, 10 at 1:27pm
I first came across it on wrenwood's trip report. It was totally irrelevant to the subject.
I then found it on Barb's thread about Paris apartments.
I clicked on the poster's name, and saw 'they' had been topping lots of threads on the Europe forum.
Because of the peculiar name and the actual name of the link, I was suspicious and alerted the Fodors editors.
Jan 23rd, 2010, 03:40 PM
#15
attnymom. "<i>I think the original got removed because someone posted a link that contained a virus (apparently it happened on several threads)</i>"
Usually when something like that happens -- they only remove the offending posts -- NOT the entire thread.
The editors have sometimes deleted threads in the past that bashed companies and specific individuals. I don't know if that is why this OP was nuked - but I'd guess that's the reason. A legitimate complaint is one thing. But going on and on about it, maybe not so much . . . .
Usually when something like that happens -- they only remove the offending posts -- NOT the entire thread.
The editors have sometimes deleted threads in the past that bashed companies and specific individuals. I don't know if that is why this OP was nuked - but I'd guess that's the reason. A legitimate complaint is one thing. But going on and on about it, maybe not so much . . . .
Jan 23rd, 2010, 03:50 PM
#16
I also agree that this post would be a LOT stronger if it was written in a more business-like manner. There's WAY too much details about little things that really aren't all that important imo.
Jan 23rd, 2010, 04:16 PM
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Hey Mitch-buddy--I'll put my FF miles against yours any day of the week. I, unlike you,have at least have posted REAL trip reports on this forum.
This thread will probably be deleted, and I am sorry, Lizzy, when I think you did others a true service.
This thread will probably be deleted, and I am sorry, Lizzy, when I think you did others a true service.
Jan 23rd, 2010, 11:50 PM
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This (and the previous post) are certainly interesting discussions. A few points come to mind:
1) Rental apartments (at least in Paris) are to a large degree completely unregulated. In fact, my understanding is that many (if not most) are being rented illegally. This is not to say that the system, such as it is, doesn't work. I know many people who have rented and had an excellent experience. However, the fact that there are is no official oversight means renters should be very cautious and crystal clear when signing a contract as to how things work (and what happens if they don't). Lizzie's tale of caution makes it clear why this is so important.
Hotels are different - they must be registered with the Chambre de Commerce and are subject to a long list of rules and safety regulations and are periodically inspected. There is a clear path for complaints to be lodged and redress to be had.
Don't get me wrong, hotels can certainly be a disappointment. But when there are problems, you have immediate access to the manager/owner and can either get things sorted out, leave, or stay and properly demand compensation if you think it is due. Apartment rentals don't work that way.
A note about B&Bs - they are also regulated, though more lightly than hotels. They have the choice of registering with the Chambre of Commerce and/or the local tourist office. This is a good question to ask, when booking, if you have any concern as to the quality of the establishment.
2) Posting any review (whether good or bad) has two elements - it's altruistic, designed to help fellow travelers make an informed decision AND secondly, it's going to have an impact on the business being reviewed. A bad review is meant to hurt the business, punishment for a job badly done. Disputes arise because the punishment is doled out without any trial, without hearing the evidence from both sides, without a judge.
We should note, however, that in this case, the only business that risks being seriously hurt by Lizzie's Tale is the agency. All the owner need do is pull the listing from this agency and list with another. Bingo - clean slate. Clean oven ? Only time and the next renter will tell...
-Kevin
One last thing - I personally found the original post to be well thought out, intelligently written and highly informative. Then I read this last paragraph and realized that she considers herself still to be in negotiation with the agency and owner over compensation for misrepresentation of a rental property. They made an offer which she refused. Her counter-offer has not yet received a response. She should have waited to get the final resolution before posting. Perhaps the agency will manage to get proper compensation from the owner ? Perhaps the UK Consumer Center will investigate and determine that her claims are unjustified ? In the meantime, she posts telling people not to rent this apartment or use this agency. This is premature and does make you wonder whether she doesn't hope to pressure the agency by posting. Apparently, it has had that effect.
1) Rental apartments (at least in Paris) are to a large degree completely unregulated. In fact, my understanding is that many (if not most) are being rented illegally. This is not to say that the system, such as it is, doesn't work. I know many people who have rented and had an excellent experience. However, the fact that there are is no official oversight means renters should be very cautious and crystal clear when signing a contract as to how things work (and what happens if they don't). Lizzie's tale of caution makes it clear why this is so important.
Hotels are different - they must be registered with the Chambre de Commerce and are subject to a long list of rules and safety regulations and are periodically inspected. There is a clear path for complaints to be lodged and redress to be had.
Don't get me wrong, hotels can certainly be a disappointment. But when there are problems, you have immediate access to the manager/owner and can either get things sorted out, leave, or stay and properly demand compensation if you think it is due. Apartment rentals don't work that way.
A note about B&Bs - they are also regulated, though more lightly than hotels. They have the choice of registering with the Chambre of Commerce and/or the local tourist office. This is a good question to ask, when booking, if you have any concern as to the quality of the establishment.
2) Posting any review (whether good or bad) has two elements - it's altruistic, designed to help fellow travelers make an informed decision AND secondly, it's going to have an impact on the business being reviewed. A bad review is meant to hurt the business, punishment for a job badly done. Disputes arise because the punishment is doled out without any trial, without hearing the evidence from both sides, without a judge.
We should note, however, that in this case, the only business that risks being seriously hurt by Lizzie's Tale is the agency. All the owner need do is pull the listing from this agency and list with another. Bingo - clean slate. Clean oven ? Only time and the next renter will tell...
-Kevin
One last thing - I personally found the original post to be well thought out, intelligently written and highly informative. Then I read this last paragraph and realized that she considers herself still to be in negotiation with the agency and owner over compensation for misrepresentation of a rental property. They made an offer which she refused. Her counter-offer has not yet received a response. She should have waited to get the final resolution before posting. Perhaps the agency will manage to get proper compensation from the owner ? Perhaps the UK Consumer Center will investigate and determine that her claims are unjustified ? In the meantime, she posts telling people not to rent this apartment or use this agency. This is premature and does make you wonder whether she doesn't hope to pressure the agency by posting. Apparently, it has had that effect.
Jan 24th, 2010, 12:37 AM
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OK, sorry to be so lengthy, but this post really got me thinking (probably since we'll be first time apartment vacation renters for a future trip to Barcelona - so the subject is near and dear to me)...
So my question: in France, the walk-through process (Etat des lieux) is a legal obligation designed to protect both the renter and the owner. You basically go through the property and note it's furnishing and any damage, etc. It's a kind of checklist which both parties agree to and sign. Is this generally done when you do a vacation rental in Paris? This was obviously not done in Lizzie's case - to her detriment, I'd add. Anybody know the rules in Spain ?
Thanks,
Kevin
So my question: in France, the walk-through process (Etat des lieux) is a legal obligation designed to protect both the renter and the owner. You basically go through the property and note it's furnishing and any damage, etc. It's a kind of checklist which both parties agree to and sign. Is this generally done when you do a vacation rental in Paris? This was obviously not done in Lizzie's case - to her detriment, I'd add. Anybody know the rules in Spain ?
Thanks,
Kevin
Jan 24th, 2010, 01:35 AM
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"So my question: in France, the walk-through process (Etat des lieux) is a legal obligation designed to protect both the renter and the owner. You basically go through the property and note it's furnishing and any damage, etc. It's a kind of checklist which both parties agree to and sign. Is this generally done when you do a vacation rental in Paris? "
L'état des lieux is a legal obligation in the case of non-furnished flats. It is not an obligation when the flat is furnished ("location de meublés").
L'état des lieux is a legal obligation in the case of non-furnished flats. It is not an obligation when the flat is furnished ("location de meublés").
