purcells5

We spent a month in France the Christmas just gone and loved it. I am hoping that we will get back to Europe next year (yes, I'm a planner). We will probably go to Paris, Venice, Florence & Rome and we would go for 4-5 weeks. We would really love a white Christmas but it's not going to happen in any of those places. My question is- is there anywhere which is feasible to get to by train where this might be possible without days of travel? I am not a fan of flying once i have landed somewhere (long haul from Australia with 3 kids!) Other info, we don't want to ski, we don't mind train trips of 6-7 hours and we'd want snow to be a pretty sure bet (although i understand that there are no guarantees) to take time away from the places we've already chosen, as generally we like a minimum 5 days in a place. Basically I'd like to either say to my kids that it's not possible logistically on this trip or hooray, I've figured out how to do it. Thanks in advance and please don't be too hard on me if this is, in fact, a ridiculous question

Tulips

From Venice you're not too far from Cortina d'Ampezzo. For Christmas you would need to book asap if you want to stay in a ski resort - early january would be easier to book. And during Christmas holidays many hotels insist on a week (or even 2).

bvlenci

You could travel between Paris and Venice by way of Switzerland, which isn't much of a detour, and where you could almost certainly find snow. My sister and I once met in Lucerne, she coming from Paris and I coming from Italy, and it wasn't an arduous journey in either direction. Lucerne itself is on a lake, and may not have snow, but if you allow at least two nights there, you could surely get to a higher elevation where snow would be very likely. There are several mountains right around the city; we were planning to take an excursion to one of them (not for snow!) when we were there, but there was so much fog that we changed our minds. Lucerne is a very attractive town, with lots of things to see and do. There were several concerts taking place while we were there, and there is a very interesting and beautiful covered wooden bridge.

You can get to Lucerne from Paris takes about six hours, with one change of train, often in Lausanne. From there, you can get to Venice in a little over six hours with two changes of train, usually at Arth-Goldau and Milan. The train changes in Switzerland and Milan are very easy.

As a bonus, the train trip through the Alps is spectacular, and you're sure to see lots of snow, and icy waterfalls, and little wintry farms and villages on the way.

You can save money by buying your tickets well in advance. For the trip from Switzerland to Milan, you can buy the ticket a month in advance to get the Smart fare, which will save you quite a lot. From Milan to Venice, you should buy the ticket from the Italian rail site to get the best discounts, from three to four months in advance. However, the discounted tickets are not refundable if you should miss the train, so I would allow plenty of free time in Milan. You could have lunch at the station while waiting for the train on to Venice.

I'm not sure of the details of discounts from Paris to Lucerne, but they do exist.

French rail (although there's another site that's supposed to be friendlier):
http://www.sncf.com/

Swiss rail:
http://www.sbb.ch/en/home.html

Italian rail:
http://www.trenitalia.com/cms/v/inde...005817f90aRCRD

Excellent general advice about rail travel in Europe:
www.seat61.com

Sue_xx_yy

As you live in Oz, this is hardly a dumb question.

Elevation is your friend. My guess is that your kids want to do more than see snow (how I would love to invite them here right now, they can shovel my driveway and have a wonderful time! ) That being the case, why not plan to go to a ski resort anyway?

http://www.independent.co.uk/travel/...ps-783256.html

bvlenci

Ski resorts tend to be expensive and hard to get to. As purcells isn't interested in skiing, I think going to a ski resort isn't really the best way to see snow.

nytraveler

There will always be snow in the high Alps - even in July - but at lower levels it may or may not be fresh show - but there's a very good chance. the problem - as noted - is that the ski resorts are expensive and designed for longer-term vacations.

If all you want to do is see/experience snow on the ground you can go to Interlaken and take the trains up to the Jungfrau - and there is a good chance of getting fresh snow in the foot hills. And I don;t think that will require a week's stay.

kerouac

Well, I was just in Switzerland last weekend to visit friends in Zürich, which is having a warm and snowless winter as well. The TGV Lyria to Zürich takes about 4 hours (I paid 49€ for my ticket, one way.) I was staying in Zürich but on Sunday we went to Andermatt, which was two hours away and quite simple to get to, even though it was necessary to change trains twice. The ticket was about 40 euros, round trip. And there I saw plenty of snow, even though there was once again the complaint that there was less than half as much as usual. It was plenty for me, and here is the report that I made about it: http://tinyurl.com/andermatt2014

kerouac

Oh, I didn't mean 40 euros, I meant CHF 40, which is a bit weaker than the euro.

swandav2000

Hi purcells5,

I'd recommend Zermatt for you. Unfortunately, these days you need to get to high altitude to see snow that early, and that would mean some place like Zermatt or St. Moritz. Zermatt is super popular for Christmas, though, and many hotels will require a stay of at least 7 nights.

You can get to Zermatt in about 7 hours by train from Paris (change in Geneva and Visp). The trip from Zermatt to Venice is also about 7h changing in Brig and Milan.

Have fun as you plan!

s

swandav2000

nytraveler, I'm not sure what you consider the "high Alps," but there is no longer year-round snow on the Zugspitze, Germany's highest mountain. The Zugspitze is 2,960 m.

s

purcells5

Thank you. I think you might have convinced me that it's in the too hard basket. English friends are skiing in the Italian Alps over Christmas and we did consider going with them, but it's a ten day stay and for five non skiers, very expensive (for our budget anyway) and a lot of time out of our month.

I think I was hoping you would say 'yes, that's easy, just get the train to Munich and spend Christmas there, it will snow for sure'

I'll have a closer look at your suggestions soon, and I do appreciate your time.

kerouac

You might just have to check the weather when you arrive. And it might snow in Paris -- not impossible.

nytraveler

I would consider the Jungfrau (4158 m) high Alps - and was talking about the Berner Oberland - no one said anything about them going to Germany.

Zugspitze may be the highest in Germany but there are many higher in europe.

swandav2000

No kidding, nytraveler. But you simply said "high Alps," and of course the Alps stretch across several countries. I just wanted you to be more specific so that others reading this might not think that all the Alps have year-round snow.

s

Dukey1

Since you are spending WEEKS rather than days I would agree taking the train from Venice to Paris would be an option especially if you route yourself through Switzerland (the alternative would be routing yourself through Milan but then Turin and into France bypassing Switzerland completely.

Zermatt: agree that you would find a lot of seven-night requirements; for overall more spectacular views I would think the Berner Oberland/Jungfrau would be a better choice, especially if you are willing to spend a couple of days. No skiing required.

A third rail route if you just want to see some snow would be rail from Venice to Milan and then from Milan the train to Tirano and a transfer to the Bernina Express; overnight somewhere in Switzerland...you could get to Zurich in a long day and then take one of the TGV Lyria services on to Paris.

There are LOTS of possibilities for this segment.

bvlenci

I still think my suggestion of two nights in Lucerne is a good compromise. Not expensive, not much of a detour, a good probability of seeing snow in the mountains above the city, and lots to do and see if there should be no snow. Plus one of the most beautiful train rides on the planet.

chutney

Kerouac,
Loved your trip report!

purcells5

I also loved the trip report and am now deep in research
I hope all these suggestions are also useful for someone else because they are fabulous!!