8 week Europe Itinerary- advice/suggestions please!
 

My sister and I (21 & 23) are planning an 8 week trip to Europe in May/June 2013. Having been on a very brief guided-tour for 3 weeks a few years ago, we are hoping to plan a trip that isn’t as rushed. Although we are more than happy to spend our days walking around seeing as much as we can (main attractions, food & wine, nightlife and SOME museums), we would also like to have the time to just sit, relax and soak up the atmosphere. Our first draft itinerary is…

London - 14 nights
Berlin- 3 nights
Prague- 3 nights
Vienna - 3 nights
Venice- 3 nights
Levanto- 4 nights
Rome- 6 nights
Santorini- 3 nights
Ios- 2 nights
Athens- 2 nights
Cappadocia- 3 nights
Istanbul- 4 nights

What do you think?

We were also thinking of breaking up the 24hr flight from Australia by stopping over somewhere for a night on the way there and back, maybe Thailand and Hong Kong. Would it be feasible to get a hotel for a night, spend a day in these cities and then jump on a plane and continue our flight?

Any advice/suggestions would be much appreciated!

Going by car, train, plane, bike or hike or combo of all? Mode of transport will help with comments.

London and Rome look good. whether the rest works depends on what you are planning to see/do. Generally 3 nights nets you 2 or at most 2.5 days in a place. And 2 nights = 1-1.5days. If 1.5 or 2.5 days are enough in cities like Athens and Venice is your call. Parts are a bit fast paced for me.

Is there a reason you are spending two weeks in London? I would much rather take one week away from it and give it to some other destinations that could easily warrant more days than you plan.

Thanks PalenQ,
We’d like to do a mix of plane and train. So fly from London to Berlin, trains from berlin heading down to Vienna and around Italy, then fly from Rome to Santorini via Athens. Ferry from Santorini to Ios, then fly back to Athens and on to Istanbul. We still need to look into eurail passes but we were hoping that we could cut a lot of travel time by flying to the places with the most distance between them

Janisj- I’ve been told by someone who travels to Greece often that 1 full day in Athens would be enough to see the main sites. Is there much to do in Venice, or it is mostly the canals and scenery?

Hi Charnees,
We’re spending 2 weeks in London because we have family over there we’d like to see. But those 14 nights are flexible so we could always drop a few days there and add them on to somewhere else. Which places do you think need more time?

I assumed the 14 days was because of family or friends and because you would be seeing other parts of England besides just London. Not that London couldn't easily fill 2 weeks (or 2 months).

My point wasn't really that Athens is 'worth' more time -- but that w/ all the travel/logistics, your two nights there is a lot of hassle to net one day.

If it was me (and for me personally, no amount of time is too long in London) I'd maybe cut one or two cities so that I'm nowhere fewer then 3 nights. W/ all the checking out/in/travel/transfers, 3 nights would be my minimum in any major city.

If all the cities are 'musts' - then you can take a few days from London to fill the gaps.

Doesn't sound too bad but a few points...

Long journey from Istanbul to Cappadocia and back I would have thought - check that. If you're dead keen on Cappadocia and want to take some time off London, I'd add it to Turkey. Either that or skip Turkey altogether (or maybe have a week in Istanbul?).

There are some flights directly into Santorini from European cities other than Athens. Check whichbudget.com, flycheapo.com and Aegean Airlines. Not sure that there are commercial flights from Ios but could be wrong.

If you're only having one day in Athens, it may be worth seeing if you can fly directly from one of the Greek islands to Istanbul.

Also long journey from Venice to Levanto. Check trenitalia for timetables.

Of course you can stop over enroute from Australia. Each airline will have their standard stop over destinations for refueling. Flights generally cost more to stopover. wotflight site good to check fares. Fare sales for that time of year generally start Nov through to end-Jan but can get lucky any time.

Wish it were me!

RE the stopover between Australia and Europe: I think that's a very good idea. Which city, of course, depends upon which airline you choose. I had a very nice three day stopover in Kuala Lumpur when flying with Malaysia Airlines. On another trip I had a long layover in Singapore, and wished I had stayed longer.

RE Athens: one day is enough to see the Parthenon and one or two other sights, but hardly does justice to the city. Frankly, the more I go to Athens the more I discover, and now think three days is about the minimum. :-)

@dreamon: Ios doesn't have an airport. You might be able to find a flight directly from Italy to Santorini, if that's your last country before Greece. If not, check out connections through Athens. :-)

You can't even cover the main sites in Athens in one day! I think the number of nights need juggling a bit, I would certainly take some off London if possible, maybe really consider what & how much you want to see in each place?
I visit Athens 6-8 times a year & still haven't seen everything :)

Hi C,

>we would also like to have the time to just sit, relax and soak up the atmosphere. Our first draft itinerary is…
......
What do you think? <

Much too far flung and much too rushed.

This part isn't bad.

London - 14 nights
Berlin- 3 nights
Prague- 3 nights
Vienna - 3 nights
Venice- 3 nights
Levanto- 4 nights
Rome- 6 nights

You then head East for 2 weeks on what looks like the usual rushed tour, eg, "1 full day in Athens would be enough to see the main sites".

If you tune in to Rick Steves, you can "see the main sights" in an hour.

You should have 3-4 nights in Athens.

Why 5 days on two Greek islands? What is there that you can't do on one island in 4
days?

Why have you left out Paris (6 nights) and Florence (3 nights)?

I would also add 2 days to Berlin or 1 to Berlin and 1 to Prague.

Greece and Turkey have been there for a looooooooong time.

They will still be there for your next visit.

Enjoy your visit.

((I))

Thanks for all your amazing advice!

We’re now thinking of dropping 2 days from London and adding them to Athens and Ios. That way we have no less than 3 nights in each stop, with the possibility of cutting more days from London if need be (maybe adding to Berlin or Cappadocia?).

Dreamon- I think it takes around 2 hrs to fly from Istanbul to Cappadocia + the hour it takes to get to the airport so we’re probably looking at a half day each way…does that sound about right?

I just assumed we’d have to fly to Athens to get to Santorini, but I’ll do some research to see if we can get a flight directly from Rome because that will certainly save us some travel time. Thanks!

Yes we’re very keen to do a stopover on the way there and back. I’m just hoping that 1 night in each place will be enough to see a bit of the city while still getting some rest needed to continue on the flight. I guess it’s the same as Athens though; you can’t see any city in 1 day but at least it’ll give us a break from the plane and a taste of where we might like to go back to in future

Ira- We’ve chosen not to go to Paris because we went there last time, and I guess we just overlooked Florence due to lack of time! Our 8 weeks is very strict as we can’t get any more time off work. Maybe we could do Florence and save Greece for next time? If we were to cut down 1 or 2 places which ones would you guys suggest? We’re VERY excited to be going to Turkey so we don’t want to miss going there!

"<i>I think it takes around 2 hrs to fly from Istanbul to Cappadocia + the hour it takes to get to the airport so we’re probably looking at a half day each way…</i>"

Most any time you fly it essentially eats up a day. Maybe not a full day. but the packing, checking out, getting to the airport, 1 to 2+ hours advance check in/security (many budget airlines have very strict advance check in rules), transferring to the new hotel/checking in all take time.

"<i>Maybe we could do Florence and save Greece for next time? </i>"

If there is going to be a next time, that could be a VERY good idea IMO. You could take the Greece time and use it to add Florence and a few nights to some of the other cities.

We still need to look into eurail passes but we were hoping that we could cut a lot of travel time by flying to the places with the most distance between them>

Well here are some IMO great European train sites - www.budgeteuropetravel.com; www.seat61.com (great info on online discounts, which though are train-specific and generally non-changeable nor refundable and must be booked weeks early to guarantee so you lose any flexibility - a priceless aspect to me at least with a railpass) and www.ricksteves.com. Look at the Eurail Select Pass, valid in any of 3 to 5 countries of your choosing and cheaper than a Global Eurailpass good in dozens of countries.

Istanbul and environs can provide that lazy time for you to sit back and soak up the atmosphere better than most of your other stops.

I very strongly recommend a day on the Bosphorus, partially on the criss-cross ferry (four stops each in Asia and Europe), and getting off at Kanlica for the special yoghurt, at Kandilli for the terrific fried horse mackerel, at Arnavutkoy for Girandelo's icecream and at Bebek for a cup of coffee or tea where the rich and famous or wanna-bees congregate. You may add the Emirgan stop for the Sabanci museum depending on the exhibition and if you do not mind spending the money the excellent fusion meal of Changa restaurant. The ferry schedules are at sehirhatlari.com

For night life, consider Bebek again as the Bosphorus venues will be opening up, in addition to Sortie, Reina and Anjelik at Ortakoy. In the city, Nisantasi is the more upscale entertainment center while Beyoglu will provide local colour and some interesting locations as well as the music at Ghetto, Babylon, etc.

I recommend that you stay in the Cihangir area and to avoid Beyoglu for the noise and the old city for the touristy atmosphere.

There are a large number of excellent recent threads on Cappadocia here on Fodors.

The flight to Nevsehir or Kayseri for Cappadocia takes slightly over an hour, but the transfer to the area after the flight will also take close to that.

If you had more time in Turkey, you could actually take two days (one night) to visit the Gallipoli battle sites, the memorials and the Anzac cemetaries.

Hi Casslee2424,

My wife and I have returned one week ago from an 8-week trip to Europe - needless to say, it was a fantastic trip. And many thanks to all the Fodor posters that helped make it such a great trip.

Anyway, back to your trip. For what it's worth, all of the comments about 3 days are really 2 etc are very sound. The minimum number of nights we spent in any one place was 3 nights and we found that rushed. Most places we spent 5 nights and we could have done with a few more in all of them.

The main part of our trip was a month in Italy. Included in that was 5 nights in Florence and both my wife and I wish we could have stayed another week at least. It is not just Florence - the whole Tuscan region is absolutely magic and each place warrants at least a day. There is Pisa, Siena, San Gimignano, Chianti and I haven't even mentioned Florence yet!

Florence is great; the people are great; the history/architecture/museums are great and IMHO, they have the best Gelato in Italy.

If at all possible, I would ensure you spend at least 3 nights in your chosen sites and try to include Florence/Tuscany as one of those places.

Regards,

Steve

Casslee,

Try to not get too distracted by other people's preferred destinations. I can think of many magical places in Europe but they won't all fit into an 8 week itinerary. Avoid the scatter gun approach, especially if you see yourself coming back again.

Having said that, if you want to see Florence then perhaps you could cut Greece and maybe also take some time from Rome (I can hear the howls of dissent from here!).

How are you travelling from Ios - ferry?

I also loved Turkey. We spent 6 weeks travelling down the west coast. And Greece is my favourite country outside of Australia. Tough choice but with the time you have alotted to Greece I would be tempted to skip Greece if you're excited about seeing Turkey. You've got 3 short stops in Greece and pretty much a day's journey between each.

Alternatively, Aegean Air have flights from Rome to Santorini and then onward to Istanbul. Santorini is the most visited place in Greece but it is beautiful. You could just have a one stop taste of Greece. It will leave you wanting more next time! I know that contradicts my aversion to running around like a bee in a bottle but it could work.

Have fun planning!

Rome - 6 nights? Fine but you are not stopping in Florence - I'd put a couple of nights in wondrous Florence and less in Rome - Florence in many ways more enjoyable as a town than huge hectic Rome.

dreamon

small correction, most visited place in Greece is Crete :)

@dreamon: <i>How are you travelling from Ios - ferry?</i>

How else? It's a long swim! ;-)

I would think Athens the most visited place in Greece? Only cretans visit Crete?

PalenQ
According to the Hellenic Statistical Authority, 2011
arrivals at the Athens Airport were 17,7% , while at the 2 Cretan Airports 17,4%.( of total arrivals in Greece)
This brings Crete to the top, since Athens in most cases is used as a transit destination on the way to the islands , other Mainland destinations etc.

Thanks again for all the suggestions :)

We’ve decided to stick with Greece (now with a bit more time in each place) instead of Florence in the hope that we’ll go back one day and do a more in-depth tour of Italy (as has always been a dream of my sisters).

Our latest itinerary is...

Stopover somewhere- 1 night
Berlin- 3 nights
Prague- 3 nights
Vienna- 3 nights
Venice- 3 nights
Levanto- 4 nights
Rome- 6 nights
Santorini- 3 nights
Ios- 3 nights
Athens- 3 nights
Cappadocia- 3 nights
Istanbul- 4 nights
London- 11 nights
Stopover somewhere- 1 night

....Which gives us 2 SPARE NIGHTS to add on to 1 or 2 places! Where should we put them? Maybe Istanbul and Cappadocia considering the travel time? Or have 2 nights on each stopover there and back rather than just the one?

Also would you suggest we do London at the start or end of our trip? We were originally going to do London first so that if we were jet-lagged it would be in a place that we had more time in, not the leg from berlin to Vienna. But then we thought it might be nice to finish our trip in London where we can relax after travelling around for 7 weeks?

That looks like a very solid trip!! I would maybe add a day to each stopover so you get to see the cities you stop at - otherwise you will just be in transit the whole time.

As for whether to do London first...have you been to Europe before? If not London is a good place to get your feet wet and get used to things here. Same language and family to help!

Check out www.walks.com for great walking tours and day trips...cheap too!

Also www.daysoutguide.co.uk for 2for1 in London. Then do a search here for oyster cards to learn about how to qualify for these deals.

Have fun!

It sounds wonderful!

I don't think it matters whether you do London first or last as there are advantages both ways.

For what it's worth I always find the return journey back to Australia more tiring so would be tempted to have one night stopover on the way over and two on the way back. Excitement keeps me going on the way over. It depends a bit on the flight times. You may have to stop in London, Frankfurt or Paris if you're heading for Berlin so that will make the journey time longer.

If it were me, I'd add the other day to Istanbul.

Enjoy!

11 nights in London - why not scoot around a bit and hit Edinburgh - to me one of Europe's loveliest cities and about 4-5 hours on a train - stop off in York for a night - another of the UK's most fantastic cities and return to London via say the Lake District - take your family with you!

You're going to have a fantastic experience!

> Which gives us 2 SPARE NIGHTS to add on to 1 or 2 places! Where should we put them?

Depends on your interests!

I've been to all of the places you mention except Greece (but I visited the Cinque Terre, not Levanto). I wanted a bit longer almost everywhere! The biggest differences are Berlin (I thought 5 full days too little), Vienna (again, 5 full days were barely enough for me), and Istanbul (another place where 5 full days were barely enough). But these are all cities with a lot of museums in which I chose to spend time.

I probably travel at a harder/faster pace than most Fodorites; even so, I think you're shaving things a bit close to the bone. I spent only 2 full days in the Cinque Terre, and I spent less time in London (but didn't have family there); otherwise, none of your target number of NIGHTS are less than the number of DAYS I actually allocated to these destinations.

If your count of nights means that some days, or parts of days, are travel time, then you have far less time in most destinations than it seems. The standard advice is that you lose about 1/2 day for each move. I know that sounds absurdly high, but it isn't, particularly for transits of the distances you are considering - you need time to pack, check out, get to the train station or bus station or airport, get/confirm your ticket, check in, wait, get to wherever, get to your new hotel, check in..... If you aren't leaving 1st thing, you'll probably need to arrange to store your luggage and factor in some extra time to backtrack for your luggage before moving on. And remember that the places you may want to visit might close for lunch or close early or open late or even be closed for the day, so the time you do have in various places isn't necessarily time you can actually use to visit the things you most hope to see. (Which reminds me: Many major tourist destinations close one day a week - have you checked how that might affect your plans?)

One last thought: I would encourage you to make sure you have some down time along the way. I'm always surprised by how much sleep I need when I travel, but it makes sense - I'm seeing and doing so much, my body and brain need the time to process and recover. Almost all of my trips have been in the 3 - 4 week range, and I've been happily exhausted after each; I can't imagine how I would feel after 2 months unless I had been very careful to work in some "down" days.

Hope that helps!

Levanto for 4 nights - I guess that is just to stay put on beach and rest up - otherwise you could use it as a base for the Cinque Terre and Portofino - famous Portofino as well (train to Santa Margharite (sp?) a really nice fishing town itself and then either hike or take a bus or boat to Portofino, one of the most popular tourist meccas in Europe.