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I was in Venice a year ago for only 1 1/2 day and I can't wait to go back and spend 3 - 4 days. I, on the other hand, didn't just find the soul of the city, but I felt totally connected, almost like I had found a home.
However, luckily not every one adores the same cities. |
I am going back for my second visit to Venice after a 1 1/2 day stop on my first Europe trip. I'm disappointed that I only have 5 days there as I wanted to spend a full week. I think that with that much time, I'll be able to see more than the "usual" tourist spots. My travel buddy thinks 5 days is too long, and wants to day trip one or two days... I told her to go ahead... I was staying put :)
Rex, I know that Venice can be expensive, but it can also be reasonably priced. We have an apt for 135/night in a great location. A 2 BR was available for about 150 when we thought there would be 3-4 of us. I think staying in an apt rather than a hotel will give us more of a flavor of local life, even if it is just a small slice! Counting the days till September! Anne |
I don't have a problem with people finding fault with my favorite magical places. Everyone's experience with a city is unique and much of that impression depends on the individual and what he/she brings to the table of life. I will admit, if you haven't fallen in love with NYC, Paris, Rome, and/or Venice, I'll be less likely to find you interesting.
'Ugly" is such an ugly word, I can't imagine ever using it in the same sentence that includes the word "Venice." I'm pretty well traveled and I've seen plenty of "ugly" (hello South Bronx) but nothing comes close in Venice. I felt the <i>soul</i> of New York City within the first five minutes of my very first visit. The same is true for me with Venice, Rome, and Paris. I can't explain why or how, I just know I felt it and feel it every time I visit. I also know I could live in each of these cities. Just some thoughts: <i>"the ugly: stall after stall of cheap touristy merchandise"</i> The number one commodity in Venice is tourism and there is no #2. Over 50% of the city's inhabitants work in the tourist industry. Even though tourism is suffocating and strangulating the very essence of Venice, Venice can't survive without it. Every great city that attracts millions of tourists offers plenty of stores that sell "cheap touristy merchandise." Far too many tourists have bad taste and buy this crap. <i>"peddlers of fake designer purses all over the city, mostly around san marco area"</i> They're not "all over" the city. They are positioned along heavily trafficked <i>calle</i> in heavy tourist areas with plenty of tourists keeping them in business. One can find the exact same thing within several blocks of Bloomingdales. What can one say about supply and demand? <i>"overflowing trash bins"</i> Maybe during <i>Carnivale</i> but in April/May? I've never noticed one. I find Venice to be remarkably clean, considering the tourists far out-number the locals. <i>"pushy sales people in shops"</i> Not where I shop. In fact, I've met some of the nicest, most professional salespeople in Venice. Most of them own their shops and came to Venice because they fell in love and had to move there. <i>"overdose of colored glass wares and masks"</i> The history of glassmaking centers around Venice and mask wearing is one of the many fascinating aspects of Venetian history. A little study of <i>Commedia dell'Arte</i>, or just plain history, can go a long way here. <i>"gondoliers on cell phones"</i> I guess this statement reveals all. What do you expect in modern times? After all, they're not working for Disney. <i>"barely any sign of everyday life"</i> Guess who, after only 8 days in Venice, didn't really see Venice? Too bad. |
<<Rex, I know that Venice can be expensive, but it can also be reasonably priced.>>
No dount about it- - if you put a LOT of effort in to it, you can probably find a "way better than average" bargain in Venice - - though its location might or might not be a compromise, and partly explain the price. But you can say that about anywhere. And if you put a similar amount of effort to bargain hunt in Verona, or Trento or Bassano del Grappa, you can find a "way better than average" bargain there, too - - and it will almost certainly be priced cheaper than the same rare bargain in Venice. When the high end places are more expensive than the high end places in other cities, when the low end places are more expensive than the low end places in other cities, when the bargain places are more expensive than the bargain places in other cities - - you can only conclude, that <i>in general</i>, the lodging is more expensive. I am not putting Venice down; like other expensive items, it fits my tastes in moderation. |
NYCFoodSnob, I agree with your observations of Venice. I experienced much of the same Venice as you did. It helps to know a little background and history of the city before you visit.
I felt the "soul" of Venice and I loved it! |
I did not prepare enough for this trip, I'll admit.
I am enjoying your comments and learning from them... |
NYCFS--Very eloquent and thought-provoking, as always. I hear your comments, but are you are saying that someone who prefers to experience and learn about the real culture of Italy (or France, or the US) along the back roads cannot be an interesting person? In your eyes, anyway?
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I have enjoyed reading the various remarks on this thread and found them quite interesting. I have to admit, however, that I'm in the camp that found the soul of Venice, and felt immediately like it was another home to me. I even remember telling my husband, as we sipped some vino at a local osteria along a quiet Grand Canal on our first evening there,..."I've seen it all now."
As lyb said, thank goodness we don't all adore the same cities or we'd all always be in the same places. We all have different tastes and different expectations. To each his own. BTW, Anne, I have also found that renting an apartment in Venice makes it much more affordable, as well as enjoyable. |
I guess I am very jealous of those who found the soul of Venice; I went looking for it
in the wrong places.... or else this was a time in my life when I was not in the right frame of mind..... |
If it's any consolation, Mitch, my husband was not as enchanted with Venezia as I was. He enjoyed the city, but still preferred Florence.
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Hi Mitch,
As I said before, "May I respectfully suggest that on your next visit to Venice that you stay away from tours and guides, book a hotel away from San Marco and just spend a couple of days walking around the city? I honestly think that you will see a very different Venice, one with a soul." |
We are also just back from Venice and I can agree that it was crowded at times and the street venders were BAD but Venice was still la Serenissima! We had a good budget hotel Hotel Locanda Ai Bareteri (under $150 per night) in a good location not far from St. Marks but quiet! Great food in local restaurants. I will always remember the locals eating and when one regular older man came in with his dog the restaurant owner gave the man some broken bread sticks for the dog. The regulars all talked and fed the dog the treat! That is a better memory for me than the food we ate! The best time to see Venice is 5:30am. You have the streets all to yourself except for a few street cleaners. It is truly magical and every street calls you to come further. It must be something in the mist. We found a great wine bar with ancient copper water pots all over the ceiling. It was "happy hour" and the locals would come and go and drink a glass of wine and have something wonderful to munch on. These are some of the wonderful memories I have of Venice. Yes it was crowded but behind all of that there was such life and mystery!
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Mitchdesi, when I first read your post, I thought about what I considered "the ugly" in Venice and, for me, it is the graffiti. But that holds true for just about every world-famous city I have ever visited.
But I chose not let that dissuade me from looking for Venice's charms...and I found them. Yes, the Rialto area was crowded and overwhelming, so we took some photos and left. Yes, San Marco Piazza had way too many people, but they were all there for the same reason we were. So we came back the next day in the early morning mist and had it all to ourselves...beautiful beyond words. I adored the mask, lace and glass shops and their creative windows. The shopkeepers were kind, sweet and very patient with my indecisions. The restauranteurs accommodated us when they were full and our hotel was lush and comfy with the greatest and most helpful staff. I just wish there were more hours in our days to explore more churches and museums and neighborhoods. Overall, Venice was magical. |
<i>"I did not prepare enough for this trip, I'll admit."</i>
I do admire people who see the light and eventually come around to reveal further truth about their experience. I think mitchdesj now realizes the above quote should have been the first line of this thread. Preparation can be crucial to finding deeper enjoyment in travel but your own personal feelings about history, art, people, customs, food, cleanliness, cell phones, and life will always play a dominant role in <b>what</b> you notice and <b>how</b> you react. Unless a trash bin is overflowing in some artful way or the most outrageous looking character is picking through its contents, I can never see myself noticing a trash bin in Venice. I find Venice's glorious history and visuals all-consuming and too distracting to focus on something so insignificant. I didn't have enough time to research anything about Japanese culture before Sony brought me to Tokyo my very first time. After a month in Japan, I came home feeling, "Thank goodness I didn't have to pay for that trip." Before my second invitation, I took some time to do a little research. I did enjoy the second visit much more but, after several more visits, I had to be honest and say I could never live in Japan. I felt its soul but it was not my soul and, therefore, I did not fall in love. So, preparation is no guarantee you'll find love. My parents were boaters and my earliest memories include being on the water and loving it. A rocking chair is my favorite chair for relaxation. There's no doubt in my mind that Venice's "life on the water" rekindles fond feelings from early childhood. I feel content in Venice. I'll take hordes of tacky tourists buying cheap touristy merchandise any day over automobile exhaust fumes. Jocelyn, thank you for your kind comments. I wanted to respond to your report as well but haven't had time. I may get to it. <i>"are you are saying that someone who prefers to experience and learn about the real culture of Italy (or France, or the US) along the back roads cannot be an interesting person?"</i> No, I'm not saying that. <i>Real culture</i> is what's happening right now, no matter what area of a country you visit. Each area has its own history and each area has its own rate of cultural development, and you're free to appreciate one area more than another. Taking an honest interest in history and culture is enough to make you interesting to me. Sharing my passion about a place may be enough to provoke a kiss. |
I agree with your beautiful/ugly assessment! We were there last week and stayed at the Bonvecchiati in San Marco, which was perfect, because we had the early mornings (before 9am) and evenings to wander and enjoy that area without the hoards of people. We walked all over and kept our rides on the crowded Vaporettos to a minimum. Glad I went, but I also have no desire to return.
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Mitchdesj
Do not unduly concern yourself that your impressions or experience do not match those of other people. When all is said and done, despite what you might read on this board, a trip is not an exercise in cultural or sensual oneupmanship. To lighten things up a bit, recall Chief Dan George's character in "Little Big Man". At the close of the movie, having failed to die a romantic Indian death on cue, he turns to Dustin Hoffman and gives the best, and funniest, line in the picture: "Well, sometimes the magic works, and sometimes it doesn't." :) |
I agree with the OP that the ersatz purse vendors are an ugly side of Venice. They seem to try to block the path so you will have to deal with them, and the police do nothing about it. Of course, any tourist site will attract this type of activity, but I have never seen it as flagrant as in Venice.
On the other hand, we had nothing but pleasant dealings with the established merchants in Venice, and I think this was in part because I had studied up a lot and had a list of merchants who were recommended, most often on these boards. At one glass merchant on Murano, my wife liked the pattern of a large vase, but I said it was too big to carry home; the clerk suggested glasses in the same pattern and brought two out from the back; they were perfect. At a glass bead vendor near the Rialto, my wife wanted to get a necklace for a friend, but wasn't sure they were large enough. She concluded that my neck was the size of her friends and the clerk tried the necklace on me; it was too small, and the clerk said adjusting it would be no problem and added some beads, even showing us how she did it. The wine shop near our residence seemed exclusively native and always had a crowd of students outside, but we were welcomed and treated well, perhaps because I went there too frequently. I agree that preparation is the key. We went a year ago, and everyone at home was concerned that anti-war feelings would ruin our trip, but the subject never came up and we never felt poorly treated. We stayed in Dorsiduro, which is said to be away from the tourist hordes, and some of the best times were walking back to our hotel late at night when there were fewer crowds. We stayed a week, and didn't get to see everything we had planned, but that was because we knew we could take our time, as we soon concluded that we would have to return. We were there in May, and there were some overflowing trash bins in crowded areas. We spent a little time watching the sanitation crew deal with one of them; I hadn't realized that their garbage truck would be a boat! |
<i>"a trip is not an exercise in cultural or sensual oneupmanship"</i>
I think comments like this are presumptuous projections and, to me, indicate some kind of insecurity and feelings of inferiority. They're insulting to every poster with an opinion. Sharing your experiences on travel to popular destinations, whether good or bad, is just sharing. Everybody has the right to not enjoy a popular place and they shouldn't feel guilty or wrong about their feelings. However, I think analyzing why you didn't like something is always worth exploring and often makes for interesting reading. <i>"They seem to try to block the path so you will have to deal with them"</i> Nobody on this board is in Venice more than me. I've never had a fake purse vendor try to block me ever. But, then again, I'm taller than most of them. <i>"and the police do nothing about it"</i> Absolutely not true! These illegal vendors are constantly dodging the police, which is why many people think these vendors are everywhere. They pick up and move to a new location in minutes. Since most non-Blacks think all Blacks look alike, they fail to notice the vendors they see at Rialto in the afternoon were the same vendors they saw at San Marco in the morning. |
This is a fascinating thread, I agree. I do think there is value in sharing and that everyone should have an opinion of their own about a place, and I also think travelers do tend to a little bit of the "oneupmanship" Sue mentioned. Sometimes it's hard to believe that other people didn't see what we saw or feel as strongly in love with a place as we did. I, for example, love Vienna immensely and can't understand why anyone wouldn't want to return asap. We all have our quirks. : )
I had been to Paris several times in my life (admittedly around college age), but thought it was stuck-up and difficult until last summer when my husband and I rented an apartment on the Ile St Louis and spent a week pretending to be Parisian. It was probably the best trip of my life. I did prepare, however, extensively. I read tons of books about Americans living in Paris, fiction about Paris, cultural and historical essays, etc. I am a librarian by trade - can you tell? Same thing with London - I thought it was sprawling and confusing and I could never get a sense of the place. But when we were there for a mere two days after Paris we stuck mostly to the South Bank and I loved it. And so, in the same vein, we picked Venice for my 13 year old stepson's first trip to Europe (with a day in London on either end for good measure). I have been reading everything I can get my hands on and we are staying in an apartment in Cannareggio for a week, away from the tourists. I have been to Venice twice before for short periods of time. Unlike with the other cities mentioned, I loved it both times, and I expect to love it even more after this trip. I am proud to report that my stepson told us last night that he doesn't want to "plan the itinerary too much" - he just wants to walk around a lot. : ) Admittedly, I speak French passably well and Italian very well, and I do believe this helps one feel a part of things. Not that it's impossible otherwise, just that it's easier. Anyway, I am voting for major preparation. |
"I think comments like this are presumptuous projections and, to me, indicate some kind of insecurity and feelings of inferiority. They're insulting to every poster with an opinion."
This is exactly my point, NYC. Mitchdesj is entitled to her opinion. That she does not like gondoliers with cellphones might reflect a dislike for cellphones in general and not necessarily an expectation that Venice be like Disney. [Good gracious, in the realms of analysis, that is quite a stretch!] There are many ways to interpret her remarks, as many as there are sides to Venice. That the sides she noticed were not always, and I stress not always, to her liking does not mean that she somehow failed a cultural exam and "didn't find the 'real' Venice". |
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