6 months in Europe-Where to go?
 

Hello!
Starting at the beginning of June/maybe tail end of May, my boyfriend and I will be traveling in Europe until the end of November.
We want to visit about a country a month while on our travels. We really want to live the like locals a little bit and see the hidden spots you can't go to if you rush it. So, of course we are aware of the Schengen area rules of only 90 days in each area. The main countries we HAVE to visit are Germany, Austria and Croatia.
For the non schengen area, we are thinking the UK, Ireland, and Croatia, and were initially thinking also Romania but that might not be possible as that is a lot to see in 3 months. The schengen area countries we want to go to are Austria and Germany, and we are not sure of a third country, Slovenia would be convenient but I'm not sure if we would want to spend a month there. So perhaps Switzerland.
I don't mind going to the U.K./Ireland first and then flying into Croatia and working our way up to Germany. This is what I'm thinking must happen, because I would really love to end with Germany so that we can go to a Christmas market before leaving. Also, we want to go to the U.K. in the summer to avoid the cold and wet, (I know Germany and Austria won't be the warmest places but they will hopefully not be as wet?) and we also want to see Croatia in the warm weather so we can go swimming etc.
The problem with this, is that we will be in Croatia in August with this plan and I have heard the nightmare inducing amount of tourists that will be there at that time. I can't think of a better way to arrange this though, as Croatia goes right up to Austria and then Germany. I suppose any place will be packed in August, but I've heard a particularly large amount of complaints about this in Croatia.
I guess I don't have one specific question as much as I would just love advice. Should we skip the UK and Ireland and just do countries near Croatia and work our way up? Is Slovenia worth a whole month? Should I rearrange the countries timeline? Any help would be so appreciated :)

EXTRA DETAILS ABOUT THIS TRIP ONLY IF YOU WANT TO READ THEM I KNOW THIS IS A LONG POST:
A little bit about how we travel: We are budget travelers who don't mind climbing thousands of steps to get to our cheaper airbnb instead of a closer one, we don't mind taking the bus instead of fast train and are happy to eat fruit and bread from a stand or grocery store instead of go out to eat. (We did this all in Italy). My boyfriend doesn't drink and I rarely ever do, we don't buy things unless needed and basically I am a master penny pincher.
While in Europe, we plan on doing several workaways (where you work a few hours a day 5 days a week for room and board) and a mix of airbnb and perhaps hostels. We also may be working remotely while traveling, and DEFINITELY filming it all and putting it on YouTube.
The main point of traveling for us is to experience the beauty of other places. Basically I'm chasing beauty, I want to see the most amazing and fairytale places in the world. I also want to see how other people live, their culture, their ideas and their stories.

WOW! How I envy you! I'd visit the Netherlands, where I used to live. If you do, there's more to it than Amsterdam and the Hague. Don't miss Maastricht on the Belgian border, with its French flair.

In Germany, I would google wine festivals for your time period. Don't miss Trier, the ancient Roman city on the Mosel, where tourists rarely trod. There's also the Rhine valley from Cologne in the North to Mainz and Worms (historic for the Reformation, where Luther faced the bishops). And of course the Schwartzwald region and Bavaria. Garmisch- Partenkirchen is just an hour's train ride south of Munich. Berlin is just as sophisticated as Paris. And between all these places are stretches of gorgeous countryside and villages.

I envy you so much!

Some random observations: If you're budget travellers Switzerland is certainly out as a destination.
Then I see no compellingly good reason to adhere to a one month, one country rule. Obviously Germany would be a bit larger than Ireland and more diverse. Therefore think in regions not in countries, try to define interesting areas.
As for your aims, they are a bit vague and even contradicting each other. On the one hand you want something fairytale-like which is most likely to be a heavily touristy place, on the other hand get in contact with real life which might be the exact opposite. So that's a bit vague to me and makes recommendations difficult.
As for saving Germany for the final leg in November just in order to catch a Christmas market at the end of the month ... well, November is certainly one of the gloomiest months and pretty much the least one I'd pick for a visit.

“Therefore think in regions not in countries, try to define interesting areas.”

Amen squared (amen x amen).

My initial thought is that your itinerary may be dictated by workaways. If you mean hostel work trades, usually those are meant to be more long term than a month, and you usually need to be able to work legally in that country, based on research I've done previously. I assume you're American? But your goals probably make more sense if you're Australian.

My other thought is that as a budget traveler, I wouldn't be excited by the idea of working remotely. Reliable internet (data or decent hotels) is expensive. Hostels frequently don't have reliable wifi. And I'd probably skip the U.K. on the basis that it was the most expensive country in terms of food, lodging and rail. The biggest issue is the last. But maybe a rail pass will help with that.

Agree that fairytale vs real life is a bit contradictory. Usually, the neater contemporary spots are on the edges of the historic districts if not further away. But your profile says you've been to Italy so I think you probably know that?

You don't want to be in Germany in November for the same reason you don't want to be in UK. It is cold and wet. I mean, I love the Christmas Markets but they are the main draw that time of year. I did a trip specifically for the Christmas markets, and I really want to go back to Germany in the summer to hike in the national parks and enjoy the outdoor attractions. I didn't mind London in the winter though because of the free, and glorious museums.

And logistically, I don't actually know if you can visit Christmas markets. Nuremberg's starts Nov. 30 in 2018, most probably don't start much earlier. Your dates may be flexible, though. You could always move your trip forward a month. But Christmas markets also equal crowds.

If it was me, I'd add France, Poland, Czechia , Greece (any you haven't been to)

Or really- just a wild idea- I'd do a RTW trip. After Schengen, I'd head to Asia or Africa. I think it would be more interesting from a blogging perspective, and cheaper than U.K.

>>While in Europe, we plan on doing several workaways (where you work a few hours a day 5 days a week for room and board) <<

What nationality are you?

If from most countries (US included) you are not allowed to work - even for room & board or just volunteering. Though some countries do have special reciprocal agreements.

If the border agents think you plan to work in-country they may deny you entry . . .

Thank you all for your input!!

Yes, Switzerland's prices had me iffy about going. Although, if I find a workaway there, that would be eliminated. I also like the idea of planning regions instead of countries. The one country a month certainly makes it a very neat and tidy plan haha but it's true I should think about where realistically I will want to spend more and less time. Maybe I will be able to add Romania in after all.

So, the fairytale and real life thing, I get the confusion. Like you mentioned, I have practiced this in Italy. I walked thousands of steps down to Positano every day and up again every night to have cheap accommodation and stay in a small little village. That's the great thing about youth I suppose, it doesn't bother me to hike somewhere instead of staying right there :) However, whether touristy or not, I would also like to see how people live every day in the most beautiful places in the world. Does everyone in Austria live like the people in Hallstatt live? Probably not, but those people still live real lives and they are even more unique being in such an amazing setting.

I had realized this about Germany, and might move my trip up a bit to get more of the markets. But what I'm struggling to figure out is where would be the best place to stay in November if not Germany? I know you said London, but I'm not looking to do many museums. I think that no option will be particularly comfortable. But if there is a better one I would love to know!

I would love to go to France, but I feel that I would like more time there than I can devote to it this trip. And I will definitely be going to Africa and Asia at some point, later on.

As for workaways, I will have to look into it more. I am from the US

>>As for workaways, I will have to look into it more. I am from the US<<

If you are from the States -- you <u>cannot</u> legally work in either Schengen or the UK. Even volunteer work is normally prohibited. And you definitely can't work (legally) for room&board or for pay. It isn't like the 'old days' when backpackers would bum around Europe and pick up odd jobs along the way.

And IF the immigration agents in your arrival airport think you need to work to afford your travel, they will deny you entry and you'll be on the next flight home.

Not trying to put a damper on your dreams -- but most European countries are pretty vigilant about screening arriving visitors.

Meant to add - (especially if you appear to be young back packers) they will want to see that you have enough cash/credit to afford your entire trip.

But I'm confused as to how do so many people use workaway if it's illegal? Friends of mine and of course people I've talked to online have used it so many times.

Staying with a friend I met online is also an accurate way to describe using workaway.

Thank you for warning me, I'm just confused as to how everyone does it then

"Meant to add - (especially if you appear to be young back packers) they will want to see that you have enough cash/credit to afford your entire trip."

Also a return ticket and possibly proof of medical insurance.

"But I'm confused as to how do so many people use workaway if it's illegal?"

Either they come from a country with an arrangement which makes it legal, or they are behaving illegally. Have no idea how staying with a friend would involve work.

Along the lines of staying with friends, consider couchsurfing.org, a free site that lets you hook up with people willing to host for free. My son has counchsurfed extensively in Europe (and elsewhere) and hosted couchsurfers himself, and it is possible to do it as a couple. It does take some work to find someone willing to host when you will be there. I could pass on tips if you are interested. The other advantage of couchsurfing is that you will get to meet "real" people leading ordinary lives, no matter how touristy the place. They will often introduce you to their city/town, but they are more likely to show you around their neighborhood or take you on a local hike or to visit their favorite hangout than serve as a tour guide to the famous sights, which presumably you already know about.

If you have any luck with the workaway thing, please report back. I'm pretty sure it will be improbable at very least though. I have gathered from thorntree that workaway folks actually advise you to not mention your volunteering or you will be denied entry. In other words, it's illegal. There are programs you can sign up for but some of them aren't open to Americans, while others require you to be a student. And none struck me as good backpacker jobs, more like soul sucking internships.

How long can you be gone and support yourself with savings? That's the important thing.

How much was your lodging in Positano? What season were you there?

I don't think "everyone" does it. It's more like one of those romantic myths that may have had some truth decades ago but that time is long past.

The only people I have met IN PERSON are not Americans. They're Australians, and they have different visa rules than we do in canada and the U.K. because of the commonwealth. Or they're members of other Schengen countries. And I really like talking to other backpackers and hostel workers. Chances are if "everyone" did it, I would have met several of them by now.

And in terms of online- the people who have sworn they do it online always turn out to have ommitted some information. Like they had a specific skill set or connections that most people don't have. Or they're just bullshitting. Or they've done it by lying to passport control and they were just lucky enough not to get caught.

Passport control- especially U.K.- are on the lookout for backpackers especially like you. People without visible means of support, people vague about their itinerary or lodging etc. you run a really high risk of refused entry, and in any case, any money you earn should never be depended upon as actual onwards travel money. Please tell me you have savings!!

If you want to visit a specific country (like Switzerland) do it. There are ways to budget even for the most expensive countries. Couch surfing was mentioned; skipping a meal here and there or relying on bread and fruit is another. Hostels are great. When I was younger and my friends and I would backpack through Europe, every time we use to all come back 10-15 pounds lighter from all the walking and the buget meals. Our rule was always never skip activities. Our basic diet relied on fruits, cheese, bread, and yougurt. In Italy, gelato was its own food group.

I am about to go to Andalusia, Spain and in October the weather forecast is still sunny and warm. Maybe November in Andalusia is in the cards? I also did Greece in October. Maybe the mainland Greece has some potential in November? Or like someone else suggested fly to Asia, like Thailand for November. North Africa like Tunisia is also probably interesting in November.

Workaway doesn't give you money. Of course I have savings

>>Workaway doesn't give you money.<<

No -- it gives you accommodations for working. That is not allowed. Same as working for money or most volunteer projects.

We are just warning you that if you are traveling on a shoestring and the immigration authorities think you don't have the wherewithal to afford your stay without working in some capacity, they MAY deny you entry.

There could be legal complications for people offering you a workaway situation as well. For example, if they are uninsured to assist you in the event of an accident or injury while "on the job", you, and they, could be screwed. And unless properly registered as an employer of any kind, they can't offer you work under any arrangement, at least that's how it is here in France.

At any rate, it is just as unlawful to barter for services without the proper visa as it is to accept payment for work, so I would not count on doing this.

We are budget travelers who don't mind climbing thousands of steps to get to our cheaper airbnb instead of a closer one, we don't mind taking the bus instead of fast train>

Trains are great and slower trains often cost less than faster trains- like in Italy Regional trains are dirt-cheap- take them between cities instead of high-speed trains and save tons of money and lost not all that much time sometimes- and local trains you really see the locals!

There is a network of long-dstance buses that often go thru the night - again saving on cost of a hostel or cheap hotel- there schedules are far fewer than trains and buses IMO are always less comfy than a train but if young...go for it.

There are overnight trains too - fewer and fewer as discount airlines proliferate but still dozens that again you save on the cost of a hotel or hostel.

And don't neglect railpasses -especially if under 29 as you then qualify for the cheaper Youth railpasses- there are country passes- 2-,3=,4 and 5-country 'Selct Passes' and Global Eurailpasses that cover everything but the U.K. just about - Britain has an especially cheap National Express bus pass/

For lots on trains and passes check www.budgeteuropetravel.com; www.ricksteves.com and www.seat61.com.

Switzerland yes is very expensive but you can cut costs with hostels and youth hotels and airbnbs - Interlaken and Grindelwald are two popular destinations with lots of cheap youth hotels and hostels. Sometimes camping grounds have cabins or RVs to rent.

Let's Go Europe is a guidebook that would provide a wealth of info for your type of trip - great coverage of zillions of hostels, youth hotels and cheap B&Bs and hotels.

Thank you ToujoursVoyager and PalenQ :) Maybe Switzerland is where I will go then! And thanks for the train info!