Stefanie

If you don't mind please take a look at our sample itinerary and give an opinion, we have two kids and very little time in London but want to give them a picture of it and then will someday go back with just the adults....let me know what you think.<BR>Our flight on 2/11 leaves phoenix at 8pm phonenix time, I'm hopin that the kids will sleep most of the way there.<BR><BR>*Day#1: on 2/11 we'll arrive in london at 1pm london time. We plan to check into our hotel and then by double decker bus tickets because they are good for 24 hours....weill they be running late into afternoon on 2/11? That evening we have tickets to the Ceremony of the Keys at the tower of London.<BR><BR>Day #2: Double Decker bus tour including Buckingham palace,Hamley's toy story, Harrods, Talfgar square, and lunch at Hard Rock Cafe.<BR>Of an eveing we though about seeing the Lion King...but do you think that Jetlag will set in? Otherwise we'll do dinner and then head to the British Museum and see the Mummies since they are open untill 8:30pm on Thursdays.<BR><BR>Day#3 Tower of London beefeater's tour, Madam Tusads, Hyde park. We plan to ride the London Eye around 4pm and then also thought about doing a Midevil banquet...either the one at the Ivory Tower near london or the Eizabethian banquet at the Hatfield house. What do you think? Suitable for a 3 year old? If not we'll do a ghost wald of London instead.<BR><BR>Day #4 (2/15)Oxford &quot;harry potter highlights&quot;, Warwick Castle, Cottswald region with a friend of mine from England, as well as Stonehenge. TOO much driving for one day? What's the uaual differenc in cost for a car verses tickets for the train?<BR><BR>Day #5 Westminster Cathedral, brass rubbings and Cafe in the Crypt for lunch. Afternoon (matinee childrens play or &quot;favorites&quot; of the afternoon??)<BR><BR>Day #6 pack and leave for home.<BR>

nosleep

You left one thing out of your itinerary. Sleep. Your 3 year old will let you know, I'm sure. I'd be careful not to lock myself into a lot of night activities with expensive reservations.

nick

I agree with nosleep entirely - you will both be walking zombies in all likelihood and you are overrelying a bit on kids sleeping on the plane. Yes you will have some jet lag. Re: getting double decker tickets -assuming you mean the buses that you just the tourist ones where you get on and off- for day 1 is frankly silly - if you arrive 1pm London time, by the time you get luggage and check in, it is likely to be 3pm - more likely later. It will be getting dark before 5pm, and you have a good chance of being tired. Day 2 - why so many people head for Hard Rock Cafe for a burger is a little beyond me - they are so common around the world. But for London you may have to queue for that. Day 4 - Harry Potter highlights at Oxford? I have read it was filmed around Northumberland in the north - Alnwick Castle and Lindisfarne. Day 4 - far too much driving. Getting out of London if you do drive will take a fair bit of time. It is a city of 8 million people or so where average centre speeds are now less than 15mph. I appreciate you want to see lots of things, but you should not be killing yourself seeing them all - you will have one dead tired and probably miserable family if you try all of this.

Ruth

I agree it looks an awfully full itinerary with young children. <BR><BR>Day #4 has a lot of driving (Warwick Castle is a looong way from Stonehenge on British roads). And daylight time is still limited in Feb. But if you miss out Stonehenge (which has little for kids and will be bleak at this time of year) and leave London early, you could have a look at Oxford in the morning (parts of Harry Potter were filmed in Christchurch which is one of the grandest colleges). Then drive up through the Cotswolds, having lunch in one of the villages (e.g. Moreton in Marsh) at a traditional pub (kids are welcome anywhere that serves food). Then see Warwick Castle in the afternoon (the drive from Oxford to Warwick is a bit over an hour if you don't stop). But even then, you may wish you had the whole day to spend in Warwick Castle - there is plenty to see, and often activities like birds of prey demonstrations, jousting etc. Look at their website for dates of activities. http://www.warwick-castle.co.uk/events/programme.html<BR><BR>The price of a car and train tickets may be similar but I would not try to do this by public transport (do you want to spend even 15 min waiting on a freezing platform for a train?). But if you were just going to a single destination, e.g. Oxford, then the train would be fine.<BR><BR>Please, don't be too ambitious. I have a 5-year-old son who loves to travel, but reading your itinerary made me exhausted! Build in time to chill out and find a playground (there is a nice little one at the bottom of the London Eye). If you find yourself in Covent Garden Market, the London Transport Museum is small and friendly, with plenty of hands-on activities for kids. <BR><BR>Half term for (many) British schools starts on Feb 15th, so some attractions may become more crowded then, but also, museums etc may have special kids' activities laid on.

Oops

Didn't realize you have so many multiple posts on this. Too much metabolife?<BR><BR>Author: Glad you're traveling together ([email protected])<BR>Date: 01/09/2003, 06:14 am<BR><BR>Message: But seriously, ask your ten year old to tell you one single thing he remembers from when he was three.<BR><BR>This is a terribly long way to travel for five days. Why not Canada or Mexico instead?<BR><BR>

Jen

The only way to render your itinerary do-able is to eliminate all the evening activities (theater and banquets are especially inappropriate) and on Day 4 JUST go to Warwick Castle and maybe Oxford (otherwise the road time is at least 10 hours). <BR><BR>nick, Northumberland was used for exteriors but several interiors at Oxford were used for the Harry Potter films. I'd recommend that potential tourists check on the accessiblity of these places, like the Bodleian Library, before visiting.

Karen

Hi Stephanie,<BR><BR>Well, your itinerary didn't seem overly crowded to me, but I don't have kids, so my perspective in that area may be unrealistic.<BR><BR>Exception: Day 4 - too much driving. London to Warwick is 100 miles. Warwick to Stonehenge is 110 miles, Without even stopping in Oxford, this driving will probably take 5 hours. Plus, then Stonehenge is 90 miles back to London. TOO MUCH! Also, daylight will fade around 4:30pm. I'd either pick Warwick and Oxford, or stay more south and go to Oxford and Stonehenge, with maybe a stop at somewhere like Salisbury.<BR><BR>Car vs. Train. The trains can be expensive for a group of people, but you can get family passes that may be worth it. Train to Oxford is easy. Train to Stonehenge means going to Salisbury and catching a bus or cab. Train to Warwick - I THINK you'd have to go to Stratford-upon-Avon and then bus or cab, not sure. Prices: I got a great rental car price on www.britishairways.com, but it was for 4 days, not 1. Train prices can be found on thetrainline.com or railtrack.co.uk. <BR><BR>Good luck and happy travels!<BR><BR>Karen

xxx

There is a train station in the town of Warwick. I have walked from the station to the castle, but I think that walk might be a bit far for a 3 year old. I would imagine there is a taxi rack outside the station or one could at least find a phonebook and call for a taxi.

lily

I agree with Jen - skip all the night time activities. You'll all be too exhausted! I was in London with my kids ages 10 and 12 for 10 days in summer 2000 and what they liked most was Trafalgar Square (they loved feeding the pidgeons) Hamley's, the mummies at British Museum, Tower of London (skip the evening ceremony), Stonehenge (for my older son only), pubs in the countryside (many have dogs) and Legoland in Windsor. They also loved Princess Diana's playground in Kensington Park and riding on a double decker bus. They were bored with Buckingham Castle except for the hot dog stand in the park. They also didn't find Westminister Abbey too much of a thrill although I made them attend Evensong and the minister actually tried to adapt his sermon to their interest as they were the only children there. And after a full day of touring, they didn't want to do much in the evenings and when we tried it was a disaster. One of their highlights was playing with the lego that was the children's in the home exchange we had. All that culture and when we talk about our London trip they never fail to mention the lego! We missed Warwick Castle and sorry we did. I wouldn't bother with Madame Tussauds or the medival banquet as you can do those in many other less interesting cities. Oh and they hated the food in the Cafe in the Crypt although it's an interesting place. Whatever you do, try not to overdo it and you'll have a wonderful time. We did!

Bobbi

My first day in London, I usually deal with my jet lag. If you do it quickly you won't spend the rest of your trip dealing with it. I can't imagine that your children will be able to handle the late evening Changing of Keys ceremony on the first day. I'm sure by then that they'll be crashing after the &quot;adrenaline&quot; of the plane trip and customs.<BR><BR>Even without children, your itinerary seems really full. You've left yourself no time for any spontaneous adventures. Sometimes the best things have been a &quot;hey, what's down this street?&quot;<BR><BR>As a side note, I understand that there's a really good children's science museum out by Hyde Park.<BR><BR>Good Luck,<BR><BR>Bobbi O.<BR>

elaine

I've been to London, with kids who were 6 and 10.<BR><BR>First day is after a night on the plane with not enough restful sleep. IMO, a bus ride the first day could put everyone into a drowse.<BR>Either check into your hotel (assuming your room will be ready) and unpack or get situated and/or nap for no more than a couple of hours. Get a light rooms ervice lunch if you're hungry. Go out again late afternoon, you'll have at least an hour of daylight left to go see one thing, even if it's just your hotel neighborhood.<BR><BR>Or if everyone is in pretty good shape when you arrive, have a casual lunch somewhere and go do one active thing.<BR>A walk, or the Tower, or the Abbey.<BR>(you meant Westminster Abbey and not Cathedral, right?)<BR><BR>No matter what I think that the Ceremony of the Keys for your first night is not advisable. If you express mail them back, try to change the tickets for another night.<BR><BR>Have an early casual dinner, go to bed early, get up all feeling pretty good.<BR><BR>The rest of the days just seem way too packed to me. Even if your kids are angels, they and you will need some down time. In my experience, after lunch is a good time to go back to the hotel room and read or watch tv or snooze or play with a favorite toy for an hour or two. Then the rest of the afternoon extending into the evening is more likely to be productive.

Rich

Hi stefanie,<BR>One word of advice, do not rely on trains at all, they are useless here in UK. Hire a car to go outside London but be careful as you Americans have the impression that the UK is the size of a postage stamp, in comparrison to US it probably is but it is also an overcrowded island, this means there are many people everywhere.<BR>Allow twice as long as you have planned for each journey.<BR>When you are in London, visit the Victoria and Albert Museum, in the dead center is an open square with fountains, this will allow you to chill out rest your tired feet and feed the children, take an hour or so here and you will rechrge all your batteries.<BR>If you want a special experience visit Cardiff in Wales, Wales is full of castles !!<BR>Have fun<BR><BR>Rich

L

Stefanie,<BR>I have children 5 &amp; 9 and I agree that your itinerary is too full. You will have some jet lag, no one actually gets restful sleep on overnight flights. Instead of the bus on Day #1 maybe take your children to Hyde Park. You can feed the ducks, let them run around, and I believe they have a new playground. The more moving around you do the less you'll feel the jet lag. I'm not so sure about the night time activities, especially the Ghost Walks. Not so much for the &quot;fright&quot; issue, but I think that is a long way for a 3 year old to walk after a full day of sightseeing. Take it a little slower, you'll still have a wonderful time.

janis

Stefani: I am not trying to pile on here but as all the others have said this is a very ambitious itinerary for adults let alone small children.<BR><BR>It is REALLY unfortunate you booked your Keys Ceremony tickets for the first night. But what's done is done. So unless you are EXTREMELY lucky and can get them to alter the date (unlikely at this late date but do try) you must work with it.<BR><BR>You arrive at 1PM - assuming you mean landing at 1PM. You will be very lucky if you are at your hotel by 4PM. There is no good reason to buy a sightseeing bus ticket then. If you get checked in and are back out of your hotel by 5PM it will have already been dark for 1/2 an hour by then. So just get an nice early dinner. take the tube to Tower Hill - you must be there before 9:30PM. One minute late and you will not get in. You will get back to your hotel by 11PM or there abouts. This will be a really rough evening for all of you but especially for the kids.<BR><BR>Forget the Hard Rock for a meal - it is just hambergers after all. But do go around the corner to its shop where you can get all the Hard Rock souvenirs w/o the cost of a mediocre meal and w/o having to wait in line.<BR><BR>Day 4 is literally impossible in Feb. Warwick does not open until 10AM - will take at least until after lunch to scratch the surface. Oxford takes a lot of time simply because of the traffic. Do not drive into Oxford - use the park and ride lots on the ring road and take the bus into town. Parking is impossible in Oxford unless you are a local (and even most of theme use the Park and Rides). By the time you hit those two towns it will be dark and you still have a 90 minute drive back to you rental car gaency. So forget either Oxford, or a drive through the Cotswolds and Stonehenge is out of the question.<BR><BR>Instead of planning out your days so tightly - just make a list of the places you want to see organized by location and get to as many as you can. Things take a lot longer than you might expect.

janis

I re-read my post one sentence isn't as clear as I'd like. (Oh, where is that edit function?)<BR><BR>I meant -- do go to Warwick, plus either a drive through the Cotswolds OR a short visit to Oxford. Getting to Stonehenge that day is just not doable.<BR><BR>ps: I used to live just outside Oxford and I would not try a day trip in Feb to Warwick, Oxford and the Cotswolds - even starting out just 10 miles from Oxford. The weather is too iffy and the days too short. You will be lucky to see all of Warwick let alone the other places.

starspinners

Stefanie,<BR>The Original London Walks , on average, cover a mile but take about 2 hours to complete.<BR>There is a lot of standing around while the quide explains the history of the particular stop. This is interesting for adults but may induce the fidget factor in a 3 year old.<BR>The various ghost walks begin at 7:30. You will need to add in the time it will take you to return to your hotel, so you may not be able to get the children into bed until well after 10 PM.

Carolina

Way too much!<BR>I would cut out your plans for day 4 completely and substitute a trip to Windsor Castle if you feel like it at the time.<BR>I think you will enjoy your trip much more if you just go with a list of things you would like to see and take it from there.

topper

ttt

Stefanie

Thank you so much for your replys! I found most quite helpful and even the harsh ones amusing.<BR><BR>We travel alot as a family, and realize this is a really short trip...so I do completely agree with the itnerary being tooo full! (And incidentaly, the price was too good to beat for this trip, but this time of year we have limited time. We will return someday, but will enjoy the short time we have on this trip just the same. ) <BR><BR>To be honest, we really are in the stages of just listing all of the things we'd like to do...and then whittling them down to what we really plan to do. Your advice in that step has been tremendous! I thank you for it.<BR><BR>My former roommate from boarding school lives in the cotswalds region, we really would like to visit her. So it sounds like our best bet would be to try just Warwick Castle and then her village. Thank you again for the advice, sounds like renting a car for this trip at heathrow would be best...rather than taking the train.<BR><BR>Again, we agree with the points you made, and will cut out such things as the Hard Rock, and stonehenge. We do have a daughter who's learning about unexplained mysteries in school....any other circles close to london we could see with her?<BR><BR>Thank you again and know that when I posted we planned to cut down...name one or two &quot;like to do's&quot; for our first day, and then just flex the rest of our time.

Mjs

Agree with most of the posts above, esp. Elaine. You may travel alot as a family but it does not sound like you are used to quick trips to Europe or Asia. Much too much.<BR>Just a few comments. First the others are right in that it will be at least three by the time you settle into your hotel and getting dark soon. I have children slightly older than yours and we do not do much the first day in Europe. Secondly my children liked the Lion King but we adults did not care for it at all, perhaps because we had seen the movie a million times. We all liked My Fair Lady and Mousetrap although your three year old may not. Third, you really only have four days in England and that is not even enough time for London, much less Oxford etc. Lastly when my children were three they needed breaks in the day, or else.......I sometimes think of family traveling like a second world war convoy. You travel as fast and far as your slowest ship. We all tend to try to do everything in our precious vacation time. Less can be more for your travel enjoyment. Good luck.