About 20 years ago DH and I made the trip to Versailles. We strolled the gardens, had a lovely lunch outdoors at La Flotille then rented bikes for a few hours and rode to the Hameau, the Grand and Petit Trianon and made a quick visit inside the palace before heading back to Paris. We had a wonderful time and avoided much of the crowds.

If we visit Versailles, I know we want to include the King’s Apartments and the fountains (for which we need to go on a Sun). The King’s Apartments are apparently not included in the Museum Pass, but I can’t figure out where/how to buy that additional ticket.
Are the King’s Apartments by guided tour only? Or can we visit on our own, with just an audio guide?
Then there is the Musical Fountain Show… which we don’t care for (I think), but that’s a separate ticket too. Do they allow entrance to the fountains in between the musical shows, which I assume run on a schedule, then kick people out who don’t have musical show tickets?
I’m very confused.

The official website of the chateau has detailed information about all the available tickets and tours. For example, to answer one of your questions:

Visite Guided tour : The Private Apartments of the Kings (english) à VERSAILLES @ Château de Versailles

Some additional thoughts:

Vedettes du Pont Neuf -- I just went to their website. They have changed their reservation system. They still offer an "open" reservation at a 2€ discount, but now also offer a timed reservation at a 4€ discount.

Dining -- We, too have used La Fourchette for restaurant reservations, with great discounts (up to 50%), especially mid-week. They have a phone app, too.

Buses -- I am another one who enthusiastically recommends using buses in Paris. You'll have to do some research, but you'll be able to find two or three routes near your hotel that take you to many of the main sights as quickly as the Metro while letting you see beautiful Paris as you ride. The RATP site has individual PDFs for each route that you can download to your phone.

Navigo Card -- You don't get the 5€ back with the Navigo card, but even using it Mon-Fri, it should be a good deal (26€/5 days = ~5€ per day, equal to less than four regular tickets per day), not to mention the convenience of not having to buy and keep track of tickets. If you also use it to get to the airport on your travel day, it equals about 3€ per day. You can buy some individual tickets for your Sunday arrival day. You can also use my "Never Get Lost in Central Paris" system without worrying about using extra tickets: Hop on the first bus you see, regardless of its direction. Keep your eye out the window and get off at the first Metro sign you see. Once in the Metro system, you'll easily be able to find your way back to your hotel.

Walking -- Be sure to download Google maps of Paris before you go. GPS does not use cellular data (though it will use your battery). It's great when walking, and a lifesaver when exiting the Metro and trying to figure out which direction to go. (There is also a phone app called Metro Sortie that shows the locations of the Metro exits on the map of Paris.)

ssander

<Buses -- I am another one who enthusiastically recommends using buses in Paris. You'll have to do some research, but you'll be able to find two or three routes near your hotel>

If you want a slightly less smartphone dependent mapping function, get "L'Indispensable," a map book with all the arrondissements, Metro routes, and bus routes, in a handy small size or a somewhat larger size for the eyes of persons of age. Available at almost all bookstores and magazine stands, if I remember correctly.

St Eustache it was I was referrring to Swan, you're right. I never went inside of St Sulpice actually, so my remark is without substance.

@StCirq, thanks for the link. I don't know how I missed it, but I really looked. I am still very ton about Versailles: part of me wants to go, part says to leave for a future trip. And this feeling is the same for the other parts of France we plan to visit. Who would've thought that 3 weeks in France is actually so little? And I keep being asked "3 weeks - all in France? You're not going anywhere else?"

@ssanders, great tips, much appreciated. I knew that Paris fas a very good metro network, I was not aware of buses. Need to look into that, look into all the apps I need to download, and also download some maps.

@thibaud, I find churches, cathedrals of all styles an denominations fascinating. We will definitely visit some on this trip, but I need to be very selective as the list of places I want to see/visit is very long. You should see the amount of churches we visited in Rome :)

<<Who would've thought that 3 weeks in France is actually so little? And I keep being asked "3 weeks - all in France? You're not going anywhere else?">>

HAHA! That made me laugh. For at least 10 years people kept asking me "You're going back to the Dordogne? Don't you get tired of going to the same place?" Well, NO! Even after living here permanently for close to 4 years, there is always, always something new to discover, often just a few kilometers down the road.

I admit to having an uneasy relationship with Versailles, which is the result of, years ago, being a tour guide who every year had to shepherd 25 14-year-olds through the place every Spring Break. It got old pretty quickly, despite the majesty and the overwhelming sense of history. Plus, I'm pretty short, and standing in lines at armpit level shuffling through endless halls just seriously diminished the enjoyment. The gardens are lovely. Marie Antoinette's hameau is perversely endearing; the fountains, if you catch them, are spectacular.

But all in all, I would never consider Versailles an absolute must-see on a trip to France. Heck, go to the Chateau de Vincennes. It's just at the end of a métro line. Or go to St-German-en-Laye, a nice little daytrip outside the city, and see the kings. The Louvre is a palace, too, you know? If you have some sort of special relationship with Louis XIV and that period of French history, I can see thinking Versailles is special, but frankly, most people don't. I don't, and frankly, that sort of opulence, like that in the Vatican, disturbs me more than it pleases me. But that's me.

The tours helped make Versailles more interesting. DH and I took a garden tour on one of our visits and were enthralled by the planning and imagination that having use of all of your country's money could afford. StCirq, I agree about the disturbing aspects of V. and Vatican but I would still strongly recommend visiting.

DH and l love to visit churches and cathedrals in our travels. I was underwhelmed by St. Sulpice but loved St. Etienne du Mont near the Pantheon. The best part of St. Sulpice was when a gentleman who worked there invited us into the beautiful carved wood sacristy. Perhaps it would be better on a sunny day or if I was a Dan Brown fan.

https://www.wmf.org/sites/default/fi...?itok=XTp5mTI9

StCirq, I'm used to these type of comments. We always travel to 1 country at a time, and we know that some of them will get return visits. We know already that France is one of such places, as is Italy. Every time people seem surprised that we're going to spend 2-3 weeks in a single country, and even more surprised that we are only visiting 1-2 areas. But how can you visit an entire country in that amount of time???

If you had asked me yesterday, Versailles was (again) on the schedule. Today is off (again). We'll see how I feel tomorrow...but I have a feeling that we'll leave it for a future trip. Maybe one in the summer when they have the fountains running on a weekday... This way we can take our time in Paris. 6 days really doesn't seem that long...I was there long time ago, maybe 20 years ago for 2 weeks, all in Paris and had a blast. But DH has never been and my visit was so long ago, that it will feel like the first time.

Scootoir,
That wood sacristy is truly a work of art. I bet your boss might have a place where he (she?) goes over and over again, but you're too nice and polite to question it. Or you just get it :)

TDudette, interesting point about tours. I would've never thought about a garden tour. The interior, yes. But the gardens? I'll keep that in mind, I think spring time in the gardens must be fantastic.

If you are into churches, you should not miss Basilique de St-Denis.

• One of the first Gothic cathedrals in Europe.
• Tombs of most of the French monarchs going back to the 6th century.
• IMHO more mystical than Notre Dame. Brightly lit on the inside.
• Easy to get to -- a couple of blocks from the Metro #13 stop of the same name.

ssander

I can't believe all these people are telling you that your original itinerary is too rushed. I don't think it is at all. I do agree with dropping Versailles - there is so much to see in Paris itself that it's not worth the time.
Your itinerary does seem to be grouped at least sort of geographically which is the key to efficient use of time. If you haven't already done so though I'd get a good map of Paris and get it photocopied on legal size paper. Get several copies. Then highlight the places you want to see. Then you can visually see where things are and how to group them (and also add in all the other places people have suggested). And also what else might be near someplace you are already planning on going to that you might want to add.



Here's my photos of Paris - they are grouped (sort of) geographically and everything is labeled if you hover over the image. https://andiamo.zenfolio.com/p460980929

@ssander, I did not realize that Basilique de St-Denis is so close to a metro stop...that really changes things :) Thanks.

@isabel, as always, amazing photos. I had seen them before, bookmarked the site and used them for planning. I use the same visualization method you describe in Google Maps, and keep adding and moving things around. List keeps getting longer and longer...and I'm happy to hear that this draft itinerary seems doable. I need to re-work it, and have a second version for all 6 days in Paris, without Versailles. I'll definitely be back with a 2nd itinerary. Thanks.

Isabel--stunning photos, they really capture Paris. Are they all from one trip? It took me several visits to see all of the places you have pictured.

Thanks. That's about 7 or 8 trips. Different seasons including several March and July and once in November.

Hi
I'm not a scaremonger but do pay attention in St Denis. keep Iphone hidden, pay attention to your bag etc.)

Yes Saint-Denis is part of the dread northern suburbs (banlieues sp?) with lots of low-income housing projects which translates to problems thibaut alludes to - once on a train platform in a station near there I was standing each a pain au chocolate and a tough looking guy asked me if he could have part of it - I said no and he gave me such a threatening look I gave the thing to him. That said you will be safe if you don't wear family jewels and be leery of anyone coming up to you.

St Denis, the station, and the bit you walk to the basilica aren't more unsafe than central Paris is. Always good to keep an eye on your belongings.

I saw a phone snatched on boulevard de Sébastopol at noon this week. No need to go to Saint Denis to worry about that.

You are scaring me....no family jewels and we're generally aware of surroundings (we both work in NYC, ride the buses and subway and know to watch our belongings), but this seems worse than the general poor city neighborhood.
PalenQ, I would've easily parted with my snack...but I would do that at home if someone on the street asked for whatever I might be eating. Or I would just go into the nearest store and buy them a meal. But it's possible that in a foreign city my reaction would be different, especially because of the language barrier. I would be afraid, and just give them my food.
I think we'll put St Denis on the list and decide there if to go or not. The "list" is already longer than what we can comfortably fit into 6 days, so we'll just need to prioritize.

Enjoying the discussions. I have been to Paris a couple of times and did as much tourist stuff as we could. But what I remember most were the various art galleries big and small, the parks, and as some gave mentioned walkimg and discovering little out of the way cafes, cheese shops, bookstores, etc.

Tdudette i started reading your delightful trip report you posted and noticed you started out as tdudette and ended up with a seemingly different screen name. Or do i just need new glasses? :)

People like to overdramatize. I'm in Paris a lot and even in St Denis (Refugee Kitchen work) and it's fine. But lots of people think that "many brown people" equals "unsafe". The Basilica is gorgeous, and it's an easy excursion from Paris.

don't put words in my mouth Menachem. I don't equate 'brown' (or black for that matter) and 'unsafe'.

I happen to have been quite a lot in the 93 and have friends who live there. Actually one of those friends was blocked in his apartment when the police were firing thousands of rounds in a neighbour apartment that was used by the guys who had attacked Charlie. Another friend had her son robbed recently whilst he was standing on the balcony, on first floor, so even locals have to pay some attention.

St Denis is not a place where you can go without paying a little bit attention to your surroundings, contrary to central Paris.

It is not Chicago, far from it, But tourists can be easy prey.

Saint Denis is a city with a population of more than 111,000. I understand that when tourist oriented people talk about it, they are referring to "old" Saint Denis with the basilica, the covered market, etc. However, that is not at all the reality of most of Saint Denis. I went to see a friend in Saint Denis today, and it was a glittering modern area of office buildings and extremely nice apartment blocks surrounding the Stade de France. My area of Paris is extremely poor in comparison. I get tired of people badmouthing an entire city just because there is a little area where they do not feel comfortable.

This said, Saint Denis is, I think, the suburban city with the highest percentage of immigrants in the country -- 31.6%. The French national average is 6.5%. Naturally, it should not be forgotten that the official definition of "immigrants" in France is "people who do not possess French citizenship." Once you are a French citizen, there are no more ethnic statistics, and that's how it should be, but you can imagine how people can extrapolate about second and third generations. They have totally missed the point. Saint Denis is one of the most dynamic cities in the country since immigrants are the future of "Old Europe" and its declining populations. They are to be embraced and encouraged rather than rejected. People who do not understand this are doomed.

DH and I took metro to St. Denis and had no problems. Memory thinks there were multiple lines on that track and we had to make certain we got the one that went to St. D. Anyone know for sure? It is a beautiful church.

And about the garden tour at Versailles, the ones we saw were designed as "rooms" with themes.

Thanks, nanabee. My old Kindle wouldn't let me sign on to Fodor's so I used a new name. Sorry for any confusion. I bought a Kindle Fire and it has no trouble with TDudette.

Interesting points of view, thanks. And I think I have a fair idea of what to expect. We're used to people of diverse backgrounds and means, used to watch our belongings and surroundings. While I understand that as in any big city there are areas that are less safe, I think the area around the basilica is safe. And it really looks beautiful.

​​​​​I was in the area of St. Sulpice. There was an incredible ceramics show in the square in the front of the church. This was in late June/early July. Not a large show, but a high caliber of art and craft. I would recommend it to all of you who are local.

The bells are powerful. Exterior columns are quite large.
Inside, it is a lovely church. I was impressed by the immense size, so much so that I checked Wikipedia and discovered:

At 113 metres long, 58 metres in width and 34 metres tall, it is only slightly smaller than Notre-Dame and thus the second largest church in the city.

Not implying anything about you, so get off the horse. I work in St Denis every 4 weeks now, and that's on the "bad" side of town. For someone who just needs to go from the metro stop to the Basilica, it's perfectly safe, just as safe, or unsafe as central Paris is. I keep my wits about me in Paris, as I do in Amsterdam or London. And I do so in St Denis. It's not a no-go area, is all I'm saying.

By the way. the #13 metro from central Paris takes you to a metro stop that is a 5 minute walk from the Basilica. Couldn't be more convenient.

When I first visited I understood what "nova lux" in gothic architecture really meant. What a revelation that building must have been. Light of a corporeal nature. It's visible even on the google streetmaps interior shots.

menachem,
I had to google "nova lux" (I've never heard the term before) and look at internet interior photos, and it's amazing! "Lux" not as in luxury, but as in latin light, of course! And...wow!

You might also check the Museum websites and see if there is anything special going on. I did that and found the Dior Exhibit at the Musee Des Arts Decoratif, (part of the Louvre) and we got tickets for that and it was just fabulous. We also found the Yves St. Laurent Museum that had just opened It's in his house in the 16th. So be sure to check and see if there is anything special going on that would be of interest. I ordered tickets on line and had them on my phone as well as printed them out.

You might also keep in mind that you will spend more time at some places than others. You have lots of time to plan so have fun researching. You might want to subscribe (free) to Bonjour Paris web publication. They have lots of interesting articles on what's going on in Paris, activities, restaurants, museums, shopping, shows, and so on.

crefloors,
Such temporary exhibitions sound really winderful. I remember years ago that we got to see a Faberge eggs exhibition in Stockholm this way, and loved it. Back then it was by chance, but I think I can do better now :)
I subscribed to the Bonjour Paris newsletter, lots of interesting things there. Thanks!

Stay Sulpice is best when you attend the 10:30 Sunday Mass and hear the delightful organ playing.


Thin

I love just attending mass and absorbing everything.


Thin, Are you packing? I went with my short goose down and a jack wolfskin rain jacket. I love it for all the hidden pockets on the inside and can layer with the goose down. We go Orlando to Toronto on Tuesday, snow showers but that should not cause any delays hopefully.

We are staying on Rue Dupleix in the 15th this trip. Different location and hoping we like it.

xyz99...

Best temporary exhibition we ever saw was one we also just happened upon. In Amsterdam, there is a adjunct to St. Petersburg's Hermitage Museum. They rotate collections -- every six month, I think. Once when we were in Amsterdam, they had the Hermitage's collection of paintings by Matisse and artists he influenced that blew us away. Pure luck that we were there.

ssander

Pepper,
I was just wondering what's the best thing to do on Sunday, and top of the list was mass at Notre Dame or Sacre Coeur and a stroll through Montmartre. Adding St.Sulpice to the list as a great alternative. Hmmmm, decisions, decisions...

ssander,
Aren't these lucky finds just wonderful? And memorable many years later, too.

Find the Programme d'orgue for the current month at the St-Sulpice website. Select from the column on the left side of the main page. Music for the masses and the recitals afterwards is listed.

The organ at St-Sulpice is considered by many to be the finest in Paris. We have been there several times for mass as well as for special evening concerts.

Please keep your schedule flexible enough to take the weather into account. Visiting la Sainte Chapelle on a sunny day is best for viewing the amazing stained glass windows. During my last visit, throngs of visitors came and went as I sat on one of the chairs, with one of the explanatory cards and my binoculars, and studied the artistry before me.