5 days in Germany - Travel advice needed
 

Hello,
Please let me know if my below 5 day Germany plan is good, if not, please recommend an alternative.

I am 28 Male, travelling alone from US to Germany for 5 days in early August. I can arrive in FRA/Munich, while I am constrained to depart from FRA.

Munich and Neuschwanstein - 2 days
Cochem - 2 days
Reach FRA the night before the flight next morning.

I enjoy culture, food and nature than museums.
Please let me know if rental car can help anywhere Vs train. Thanks a lot!

Have you looked at the travel time in coming up with this itinerary?
For trains, www.bahn.com. For car, www.viamichelin.com.

I don't know when you are arriving in Munich. We postulate generously that you will be in Munich early in the morning, and that you have almost 4 days to play with. Munich and Cochem don't connect quickly.

The travel time between Munich and Cochem is around 6+ hours by train considering you have to make it to the station. Driving alone is slight less. However, it would be an incomplete comparison. If you rent, you have to roll in paperwork time to rent and return plus time needed to gas up and eat meal and rest on the way, etc, so for this segment alone, even if car travel itself might come out shorter, you will consume most of the day either way.

So are left with 3+ days. Do you really want to do this?

Planning by days tend to double count the same day. Look at the number of nights. It is difficult to double count the nights. If your are counting the arrival and the departure days as part of "5" days, you have 4 nights = 3 full days plus one partial usable day in front?

Yes, why Cochem? There are a lot of picturesque towns (many, many) that are much closer to Munich, or between Munich and Frankfurt that might fit your bill and be a wiser use of your time.

If you are constrained to leave from FRA, then you really need to arrive in MUC to make this short trip easier.

You can see Neuschwanstein without a car. A car would make it easier but would be a hassle and cost you more money to have it while you are in Munich, where it is not needed.

Munich to Cochem is about a 5 hour drive or 5:40 - 6:20 by train. That is not a lot of difference but the convenience of having a car to pick your travel times from Munich, stop along the way, drive the banks of the Mosel, and pick your time to return to FRA, make it an option.

Cochem to FRA is a 1:30 drive or about 2:30 via train.

I'm pretty sure you know that it takes time to travel from Munich to Cochem, probably don't consider that time to be a waste, and that you know why you wish to visit a place so I won't suggest your choices are unwise.

"...I won't suggest your choices are unwise."

Well, like greg and trophywife, that's what you just did!

3 consecutive strikes. You're out. Time to rethink the 5-day plan, bck - or ignore the advice you requested.

Try reading for comprehension, Fuss.

I provided some practical advice so that the OP can take the relevant factors into consideration for visiting the laces he wants to visit; plus and minuses of a car, actual travel times etc..

My "won't suggest your choices are unwise" comment was a reference to the other two posters - and now you.

So that's a swing and a miss for you.

"...I won't suggest that you need to lose some weight."
"...I won't suggest that you don't know what you're talking about.
"...I won't suggest your choices are unwise."

I think all those non-suggestions are actually suggestions.
But if you say no, Aramis, okey-doke. We'll call your statement a simple miscue, so your pitch was fouled off, and I'll be strike three.

"Please let me know if my below 5 day Germany plan is good, if not, please recommend an alternative."

Since you asked for a value judgment...your plan is not so good. Too little time in Munich. Too much ground travel to Cochem and then another 2.5 hours back to FRA so you can overnight in an airport hotel (not a great cultural experience for most of us.) And what about that first day. You've flown all the way from Arizona across nine time zones. Will you have slept? My guess after lots of these trips is that you'll be pretty messed up on Day 1. So there's quite a bit of time spent in your plan that gets used up just by the travel routine. Keep it simple... 3 days in Munich, then maybe 2 days in some other really nice river town like, like Mainz, Bamberg or Würzburg. Würzburg isn't far from Frankfurt airport at all, maybe 1.5 hours by train. Mainz is only 25 minutes away.

Mainz:
http://georg-dahlhoff.de/blog/wp-con...1104020978.jpg
http://www.elchontour.de/Foto/Mainz/Mainz37.jpg
http://www.master.economics.uni-main...sse-abends.jpg

Thanks everyone for your suggestions.
I realize my original plan is not good. Think I will take your advice to include places between Munich and Frankfurt.

Please let me know what you think about this itinerary:

Stay:
Munich - 2 nights
Wurzburg - 3 nights
Visit:
Munich - Mon morning - Wed noon (Neuschwanstein Tuesday)
<Train to Wurzburg)>
Wurzburg - Wed evening
Rothenberg & Iphofen - Thursday
Bamberg (day) & Wurzberg (evening) - Friday
Saturday morning 630am train to Frankfurt for 10:30 flight.

I am hearing mixed reviews about Neuschwanstein. Let me know your opinion on that too. Thanks again!

Neuschwanstein is one of those places that if you want to see it, you should. It's not a real castle but it has been the iconic castle that people often think about when they think of Germany.

Lots of long lines to see castle but you need to see the beauty of the alps so at lease venture that way, Linderhof grounds are nice.

Ok great. Thanks much.
Can anyone please advise when and where should I book the train tickets for these trips? Wondering if its necessary to make a reservation early (to reserve seats & save money)? I am 28 & travelling alone between Aug 9-14.
Munich - Neuschwanstein
Munich - Würzburg
Würzburg - Rothenburg - Iphofen
Würzburg - Bamberg
Würzburg - Frankfurt (for 10:30am flight at FRA)

Thanks!

Fuss/Russ - you keep missing the point (pitch). One more time. I won't say you're slow, but.....

Here was the intent of my statement; "I won't suggest your choices are unwise" was a counterpoint to the outright suggestions from other posters that the OP's plan was a mistake. It means I am not going to treat you the way the other posters have - like you are screwing up your trip. It means "I won't so what they did - I will give you the information you need to make your own decision."

I don't think any plan is a mistake if the individual wants to take the trip knowing what the logistics are. I give them credit for knowing that travel takes time and for knowing what they want to see and I provide the information necessary for them to figure out if it something they want to do.

Munich to Wurzburg is about 2:40. Wurzburg to FRA is about 1:40 by car and 1:30 by train (same driving time and 1 hour more by train as from Cochem) so the net result of the proposed change offered to the OP is about 4 - 4.5 hours travel time.
If I wanted to see the Cochem and the Mosel on this trip, that wouldn't turn me off the extra 4.5 hours at all.

There is nothing wrong with Wurzburg after Munich either. If the OP values the time that much and wants to see Franconia, super.

Cochem is nice but swear the city closes down when the cruise ships leave around six. We climbed to the castle after dinner. Was very nice. Waited across the river to see it lit at night. Still love Munich and the alps better. I wanted to see that area,

Any suggestions on the trains for the above itinerary, please?
Very useful insights everyone. From the pics, think I will love the Franconia more than the Mosel. Thanks!

"Munich - Neuschwanstein
Würzburg - Rothenburg - Iphofen
Würzburg - Bamberg"

For the above 3 trips which require only local and regional trains. you do not book in advance. Best deal is the Bayern Ticket day pass which you buy from a ticket machine at any station. It's €23/day for 1 adult + €5 per additional person:

http://www.munich-touristinfo.de/Bavaria-Ticket.htm

Munich - Würzburg: You can do this one on a Bayern Ticket too using local and regional trains in 3-4 hours with 1-2 changes of train. If you want to get there faster by direct high speed ICE train (2-2.5 hours) then regular tickets will cost a lot (€71) However... the DB site sells advance savings fare tickets which commit you to using trains at a specific time. You can check fares and book at the DB itinerary page:

http://reiseauskunft.bahn.de/bin/query.exe/en

"Würzburg - Frankfurt (for 10:30am flight at FRA)"

Try to get a savings fare for this trip. And plan to leave early so you get to FRA around 3 hours early (just in case your train is late or whatever.)

The local/regional train schedules can be pulled up at the same website above but be sure to click on "only local transport" under "means of transport" when you search.

And when you search for the savings fares on the high speed trains, be sure you don't have that "local transport" button clicked on!

Munich - Würzburg. The advance fare is €19 for an ICE.

Würzburg - Frankfurt (for 10:30am flight at FRA)
I don't think you have looked at the schedule. If you are to meet the 3 hour before arrival (7:30am) at the airport recommendation, never mind additional lead time to account for delays, you are very few poor choices.
Options 1 and 2 meets the 3 hours lead time.

Option 1: 2:29 trip
0421-0617 RE4630 Würzburg Hbf-Frankfurt(Main)Süd
0645-0650 RE15296 Frankfurt(Main)Süd - Frankfurt(M)Flughafen

Option 2: 1:38 trip
0555-0700 ICE1126 Würzburg Hbf-Frankfurt(Main)Süd
0705-0733 BUS61 Südbahnhof, Frankfurt am Main-Flughafen Terminal 2, Frankfurt am Main

Option 3: 1:45 trip
0555-0740 ICE1126 Würzburg Hbf-Frankfurt(M)Flughafen Fernbf

The option 3 does not meet the even if the train is on time. The "Fernbf" is a far away station. It takes about 10 min to walk to the counter if your car pulls in next to the escalator. ICEs are usually very long trains and you might have to walk a few minutes more on the platform to get to the escalator. Additional issue with the option 3 is that the leg includes crossing the Main river to get to and out of the Frankfurt HBF station. There are only a limited number of tracks crossing the Main river and the trains can get bogged down entering and exiting Frankfurt HBF. The Option 2 avoids this by not crossing the river, however, it gives you miniscle

miniscule time to change from the ICE train to the bus. If your flight out of Frankfurt is not flying direct to the U.S., you have more time to get to the airport. If the flight is direct to U.S., it can take varying amount of time to go through the security process. Sometimes it is a breeze. If you get caught just after a recent security breech incident, they can set up an impromptu additional security check that can add more than an hour to the process.

The direct ICE at 6:26 on Saturday from Würzburg gets you to FRA at 7:55 - probably enough cushion time - but you might be more comfortable taking the train on Friday evening to Frankfurt instead... On Friday morning leave your bags in a locker at W'burg station (or maybe at your hotel's front desk if it's near the station) before taking the train to Bamberg. After you're back in W'burg you can board a direct train to Frankfurt's main station, overnight there (lots of hotels there in all price ranges) then in the morning take a 10-minute train ride to FRA after an early breakfast.

Würzburg is pretty good, though the Franken wine is a bit light. Have you look at say Rudesheim?

Greg and Fussgaenger - Thanks for the details. Thats exactly what I was looking for. Any idea how many days in advance the savings fare needs to be booked?

bilboburgler - Rudesheim is a bit far from Würzburg, compared to the other beautiful towns nearby. Hence, I would prefer Würzburg. Looks good though.