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4h connection time: How to go to Prado and back?

4h connection time: How to go to Prado and back?

Aug 8th, 2007, 11:42 AM
  #21  
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Actually -- correction. I've been to Prado 3 times. Though admittedly my first visit was more rushed, and I admit that I was also far less sophisticated. (i.e. I probably didn't know who Patinir was.)

111op is offline  
Aug 8th, 2007, 11:46 AM
  #22  
 
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OK - since you are bound and determined to do this, just do it fer cryin out loud. You have two threads going, and every poster (except for yourself) has advised against it. You have been to Madrid and the Prado and seem to be sure you can do this. So do it. Why even post the questions if your are set on doing it anyway?? What do you want from us?

janisj is offline  
Aug 8th, 2007, 11:55 AM
  #23  
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These are my questions:

But what's rush hour traffic like in Madrid?

Also some info about T4/T4S geography in Barajas from people who know the airport well. And info about Iberia MAD-BCN flights and security requirements.

Let me note that very few people have attempted to answer these questions

Of course I'm going to do it, but I want to research this properly and think about it.

Thanks.
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Aug 8th, 2007, 12:13 PM
  #24  
 
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I've been several times (at least four or five, I would guess), the first time in 1993 and most recently in 2000 (in 1999 and 2000, I traveled regularly, at least several times a month for a five month period, from New York to Madrid for business -- until the tech bubble burst!). I also don't claim to be an expert, but I have never sprinted in and out of the museum just to "check off" some paintings on my life list.

Rush hour traffic in Madrid can be slow, but its not as slow as New York. I used to land, go to my hotel (the Palace -- less than 5 minutes from the Prado), shower and go to a meeting -- while this was several years ago, there were times that it took 45 minutes to an hour to actually get to the hotel (that's from memory -- it may have been a bit quicker, but that's what I would have budgeted in order to schedule a meeting).

Just wing it and see what happens -- there are plenty of MAD to BCN flights, and if you miss it, they'll likely just put you on the next flight.
thit_cho is offline  
Aug 8th, 2007, 12:15 PM
  #25  
 
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By the way, Montebello overpaid -- he's lucky he's playing with house (trustee) money.
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Aug 8th, 2007, 12:21 PM
  #26  
yk
 
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There are 3 main issues from the way I see it. The first is not as major as the other 2.

#1 - Flight arrives at 7:10am. Can you get to the Prado by 9am?

Most likely yes, unless your flight is delayed, or there's a long queue for taxi at the airport, or there's immense traffic jam. But like you said, if you see you won't make it to the Prado because of traffic, you can always ask the taxi driver to just turn around.

#2 - Can you get from Prado back to airport in 30 mins? How easy would it be to hail a taxi from there? How bad will traffic be at around 9:30am?

#3 - If you get back to the airport by 10am, is 1 hour enough time to get through the airport through security to get on your flight?

Sorry I can't answer any of these questions, but at least they can direct people to focus on those issues, rather than on whether you're crazy or not to see 22 Patinir paintings in 30 minutes.
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Aug 8th, 2007, 12:25 PM
  #27  
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Oh, 1 more:

#4 - What are the consequences if you miss your MAD-BCN flight?
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Aug 8th, 2007, 12:34 PM
  #28  
 
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Thit_cho: No, they most likely won't put 111op on a later flight. He did not book a flight to Madrid. He booked New York to Barcelona. It is only a plane change/layover in Madrid so if he misses his connection he is SOL. That is the WHOLE point of his threads. He booked open jaw JFK > BCN and OSL > JFK. Madrid doesn't factor in at all -- EXCEPT he wants to take this excursionn into town while he is supposed to be in the departure lounge at MAD.
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Aug 8th, 2007, 12:40 PM
  #29  
 
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Assuming you leave Prada at 9:30 and arrive back at the airport at 10:00, that leaves you an hour to get through security and get to your gate before the gate is closed for your flight.

What will you do if you miss your flight? What will you do if AA cancels the rest of your itinery? What will you do if your bag is on the plane you missed?
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Aug 8th, 2007, 12:42 PM
  #30  
 
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Well, I already gave 111op's the excuses he can use in his other thread about what if he's late for his flight. He needs to have excuses like he had been in the bathroom since getting off the flight that morning because of severe diarrhea. Or something like that. [I don't think my other suggestion of being kidnapped by aliens will work well; and don't say the taxi has a flat tire, as he shouldn't be in a taxi anyways.]

My feeling is that Iberia will let him standby on a later flight. They aren't Ryanair afterall. But the return ticket will be canceled, and he needs to spend hours with AA to have it restored.

That'd be my best guess of what happens if he's late getting back to the airport.
rkkwan is offline  
Aug 8th, 2007, 12:49 PM
  #31  
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Thanks yk.

Yes, #3 is obviously the most crucial. If my flight is delayed a lot I won't even leave Barajas.

Adding to this, I'd ask for recommendations for car service -- if that's a better option.

Personally I do think that 1h should be enough. After all, last checkin times are never tighter than 1h. If you can checkin 1h before the flight, the expectation is that you have enough time to make it to the gate.

Re your #4, I guess I'll have to act like rkkwan said -- cook up some outlandish excuse. Diarrhea? Maybe I can say that I went out to meet a friend and lost track of time. I don't know. I'll think about it if that comes to pass (I hope not).

Well thit, whether 45M is fair for Duccio is hard to say. There're probably very few Duccios left in private hands. And most museums have Duccios because they are Maesta fragments. His argument was the Louvre didn't have a Duccio and was in competition. He probably overpaid, but how do you put a value on these things? If you really want a Duccio, that's probably the only option. When will the next one come on the market?

In the past my cab rides between the airport and the city have been 1/2 h or less. But I've not attempted to do this before 9 am. Hopefully I have enough cushion to get there by 9 am and can return to Barajas in 1/2 h.



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Aug 8th, 2007, 12:54 PM
  #32  
 
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If you do get there by 9 AM (which is fairly likely, I expect - that's the least problematic aspect of this scenario), I think it's optimistic to expect the museum and security to be fully open and to be passing people through quickly. I think the earliest you can reasonably hope to actually get to the paintings is 9:10.

I could be wrong, and the staff could act with extreme dispatch.

A true jet-setter would pay a premium to have the Prado open early especially for him.
WillTravel is offline  
Aug 8th, 2007, 12:58 PM
  #33  
 
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I know what I'm going to say it's very expensive..but it is the only solution I can think of... hire a taxi, go to the museum, make the driver wait for you (of course, they charge for waiting) and go back to the airport. A private service will be more expensive, but you can hire it in advance which is an advantage..you don't have to be at the taxi stop line.
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Aug 8th, 2007, 01:08 PM
  #34  
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I wish I had Phillipe de Montebello on speed dial. Or maybe Keith Christiansen.

Realistically, I know that I should probably leave the museum at 9:20. So I understand that I'll just have 10 minutes. But it makes me feel a little better to think I may have 30.

And by the way, 10 minutes is still better than nothing.

The Scrovegni Chapel in Padova limits visits to 15 minutes. So does Lenoardo's "Last Supper." You could argue that 15 minutes is enough for the latter, but 15 minutes is certainly not enough for the former -- there're basically 24 panels, if I remember correctly, plus the fresoces at the ends of the room, plus the starry ceiling, if you want to look at it.

Does that mean you would skip Giotto if you go to Padova? I'd hope not. True, you could return again a couple of times. But if you only had 15 minutes I hope you still go.

I do exaggerate a bit -- I think the minimum time required for Giotto is 1/2 hour because they force you to sit and watch that documentary before letting you in. But your actual time with Giotto is a pitiful 15 minutes.



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Aug 8th, 2007, 01:11 PM
  #35  
 
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111op, I live only a few blocks from the Met and made a special trip to see the Duccio (after the flurry of press at the time of the acquisition, I was sure the gallery would be crowded with likeminded people), but if I recall correctly, there may have been two or three others viewing the painting in the 10 or so minutes I was there. One of the great things about the Met is that its so encylcopedic, but my concern is that they spent a very large percentage of their acquistion budget on a small painting that isn't going to increase foot traffic (I know that's not, nor should it necessarily be, the guiding factor, but $45 million is a lot to pay for a non-blockbuster painting).

To me, it seemed that Montebello was looking for his Rembrandt or Velaszquez, but the Duccio (at least in my view) is not in the same class as these two other hallmark purchases.
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Aug 8th, 2007, 01:17 PM
  #36  
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Well, I've seen the Duccio a few times. People never seem to pay attention to it. I agree that it's not terribly interesting -- even if you argue that the parapet is one of the first such depictions -- to create an illusion of space. I prefer the Giotto in that same room anyway.

Actually there've been other high profile paintings at the Met. I think I found out about the Pietro Lorenzetti Crucifixion somehow -- forget how much they paid -- but it was enormous. It's usually near the Duccio, as it should be, since he was also Sienese.

But perhaps most surprisingly one of the most expensive works in the museum is the Jasper Johns White Flag, if I remember right.
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Aug 8th, 2007, 01:22 PM
  #37  
 
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The Johns was the most paid prior to the Duccio (but its not like there aren't more, and better, Jasper Johns photos on 53rd street). I think the Met paid $20 million for the Jasper Johns. And I would imagine there are better Jasper Johns paintings lining the walls of some Park Avenue apartments (I doubt there are any "secret" Duccios on Park, even if fragments).
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Aug 8th, 2007, 01:28 PM
  #38  
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I had an interesting experience at the Johns show in DC recently. Was that last year?

I started looking at the labels of the paintings, and hedge fund managers and media types dominated.

Museum labels are very revealing, if you take the time to look at them. It's amazing the sorts of things one can pick up from reading them.

You probably read that Steve Cohen will lend the Damien Hirst shark to the Met.

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Aug 8th, 2007, 01:34 PM
  #39  
 
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Yeah, its a nice way for SAC to validate the "shark tank" and inflate its value -- so he can unload it next year. Do you know if anyone purchased the Hirst bejeweled skull (I think it was listed at around $90 million).
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Aug 8th, 2007, 01:41 PM
  #40  
yk
 
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For #4 - I think apart from diarrhea excuse, another excuse would be telling them you fell asleep somewhere in the airport and missed the announcement. I think that is a more convincing excuse. But still, you'll have to deal with AA re the OSL-JFK segment.

kenderina's idea is not bad - have the taxi wait for you. Of course, it can be a problem if the taxi driver decides to pick up another passenger in the mean time.
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