AquaGirl

Warning - this is a long one

72 days until my husband and I depart for our trip to Italy. Can you tell I'm excited! I have been soaking in the comments, trip reports, etc. on this site and thought that I might throw my itinerary out there for review and comment.

Some background first:
1. I spent 3 months in Europe in 1992 and enjoyed a day each in Rome, Florence/Pisa, and 4 days exploring Venice via a campsite in Jeselo. I was traveling solo and my dream has always been to go back to Italy with someone I love.

2. My husband has never been to Italy, it's his first trip to Europe in fact.

3. We are late 30's....OK I turn 40 this year. This trip is to celebrate that and our 5th wedding anniversary (July).

4. My in-laws (who I adore) and a bunch of their friends (who are also fabulous) have rented a villa just outside San Gimignano and we are staying there part of our trip.

5. We love art, architecture, history (especially my husband), but I am not overly focused on any of those aspects. I want to get a taste of it all.

6. That being said, I am VERY interested in food and wine. I have been doing my wine research but suspect that I will stick to house wines – I've read they are great and I can't think of a better way to experience a country. My personal motto is "Eat Locally, Drink Globally" but for this trip "Eat Locally, Drink Regionally." I know we will splurge on a few meals, go easy on others. For recommendations I'd like to know what's good and then gauge the euro situation.

7. I also plan on leaving some Euros behind while shopping.

8. My plan is to purchase 5-day Super Saver Train Passes (2) for 1st Class Travel.

Flight Info - American Airlines
9/28 - Arrive Rome at 8:00am (Seattle to Rome, via Chicago)
10/18 – Depart Rome at 10:00am

The Plan

Day 1
Arrive 8:00 am. Train Rome to Florence, connect to train to Siena, off at Poggibonsi where we get picked up by family for transport to Villa outside San G. (Train Pass – Day 1)

Question: I assume I need to take the train from airport to the Termini to catch train to Florence. Is the train from the airport to Termini part of the Train Pass?

How long can we expect it to take to collect luggage and make it out of the airport?

Day 2
Chill and overcome jetlag at the Villa

Day 3
Morning train to Florence. Spend the day exploring. Overnight at Casa Howard. (Not a Train Pass Trip)

Question: If you had 1 night in Florence, where would you dine? Lunch and Dinner suggestions appreciated. I don’t eat the meat (only Seafood) and I can be happy eating pasta anytime. Budget around 100EU.

I am sure we will spend more time in Florence later in the trip (via car), but I wanted to spend 1 night so that we didn't have to worry about drinking too much wine and driving.

Days 4 & 5
Morning train to Venice (Train Pass Day 2)
Staying at the Hotel Galleria. The plan is to do Doge's Secret Tour, check out some highlights, and Gondola ride for sure as I didn't do this on my solo trip. Must do's include enjoying a Spritz before dinner, get lost exploring the back streets/palazzos and take lots of photos.

Question: Looking for restaurant recommendations and any must-do or not-do suggestions.

Days 6 – 16
Train from Venice to Florence (Train Pass Day 3)
Pick up a rental car and drive to Villa
Spend the next 10 days exploring towns around Tuscany. I am sure we'll see Siena, San G., Lucca, Pisa, a coastal town or two and go back to Florence. I definitely want to do some wine tasting and watch the harvest (Chianti Road). We will be with a large group but can break off and do our own thing. At the Villa we will take a cooking class, do an olive oil tasting, cook, relax and drink wine. Sounds heavenly!

Questions:

I would like to avoid the airport for picking up our car, but heard the downtown area can be a nightmare. Please offer suggestions. I plan on booking through Kemwell but that is not set yet. I can do the airport if best, but Kemwell charges an airport fee.

Is it feasible to head to Cinque Terre for an overnight? We could drive to a town, train and hike to another town for an overnight, then continue on and train back to our car.

Please offer up and day trip and dining suggestions.

Must-do's and Must-avoid much appreciated.

Days 17 & 18
Return rental car as early as possible and train to Naples. Catch the Circumvesuviana to Sorrento. Spend two nights at Casa Astartita. (Train Pass – Day 4)

Plan is to explore Sorrento, Pompeii and possibly ferry to Positano (or bus).

Questions:

Looking at train schedules, we would get to Naples sooner if we catch the train in Florence. I compared schedules against Siena. Please comment – drop-off location is key here.

What are the two best restaurants to enjoy in Sorrento? <100EU

Is the Circumvesuviana part of the Train Pass?

Days 19, 20, & 21
Train to Naples. Naples to Rome. (Train Pass – Day 5 final)
3 Nights at Casa Howard - Via Sustina in the tiniest room they have (i.e. cheapest) near Spanish Steps.

In Rome we will see the highlights: Vatican, Colosseum, Villa Borghese, Fountains, Patheon (my fav). Eat and drink our way through 2.5 days.

Questions:

In addition to the above, what is a Must-See.

Restaurant recommendations gladly accepted.

Day 22
Catch our 10am flight home.

Final Question – I have been hunting for a new leather jacket with no luck. I thought that this could be my Italy souvenier. Can anyone make a recommendation for a good leather shop in any of the towns we are visiting. Thanks!

Jean

I guess you already have your flights booked and paid for... It would have been nice to fly into Venice and out of Rome. Oh well.

First of all, are you sure those train passes save you money? I'm not familiar with the 5-day Super Saver, but you're not taking many trains. It may be cheaper to buy point-to-point tickets.

If it were my trip, after landing, I'd head to Florence and spend the first two nights there. The one/first night at the villa just sounds like a hassle, time lost in the logistics of it, etc. Yes, you must take the express train from the airport to the Termini station to catch the train to Siena/Florence.

You'll only have a day and a half in Venice. Better than nothing, but not very much time. If it were my trip, I'd take away at least one day from the villa/Tuscany portion of the trip and give it to Venice.

When you return to Florence during the villa/Tuscany days, I think it's easier to travel by public trans than to drive and park and make your way back to the villa in the dark.

I don't understand your question about picking up the car at the airport. Which airport? Is Kemwell the only company you've checked? You might look at AutoEurope.

The journey to Naples and then Sorrento will take a good part of a day. (Look into dropping the car at Orvieto rather than dealing with Florence.) If you're only staying two nights in Sorrento, you really only have one full day to explore Pompeii and Positano. Not interested in Capri? Here's another place in your plan where you could use another night to make it possible to see the highlights, but I have to say if it were my trip I'd skip this part and add the days to Rome.

zeppole

Like Jean, I'm not sure you're saving any money with the train pass.

I'm also not sure your husband -- described as being quite interested in history is going to enjoy this "taste of it all" unfocused trip as much as you will.

What is his interest in history?

You can't get a 'taste of it all' moving around liek you're doing. You'll get a taste of train stations.

How about adding another slogan -- always useful in Italia:

"Less is more."

?

StCirq

My first thought was also that you probably don't need that train pass.

Ninkette

I would rent your car in Venice and drive to the villa rather than taking the train to Florence and then renting a car. Its only about a 4 hour drive. I would imagine that in Florence there are car rental agencies around the train station if you are set on taking the train. One of you drive, one of you navigate. Or rent a GPS with the car.

You can do an over night to the Cinque Terre. I can't remember which cities have parking. I would not park at one and then hike to another to stay overnight, you don't want to hike with your luggage. Its a 50 minute train ride from one end to the other, so its not a big deal to hop on a train and get back to where you started. If you start early you can do the whole hike in a day, but I would stretch it over two so you can enjoy each town without rushing.

Although I love the Amalfi Coast, I would consider dropping it and spreading those days out to other destinations (one Rome, one Venice). As the pp said, you'll spend most of the day getting to Sorrento and really only have 1 day to explore. Then you'll spend a good part of the next day getting back to Rome.

AquaGirl

Thanks for the feedback thus far.

We are heading to the Villa first to drop our luggage and be with family. We are then packing smaller day packs for the Florence/Venice excursion.

I did the math on the train pass. A 5-day pass for 2 is $300 each. For only 4 of our trip-days the 1st class travel (based on our desired schedule) is $432. I could not get a price for the Florence to Naples, although I saw the schedule I want, just no price yet. The $432 does not include the Naples to Sorrento either as I am no sure they are covered by the train pass. So, I see a $132 savings each at least.

Car - we really want the freedom of a car but only want it for short trips. We'd rather train from Venice to Florence.

I will see if we can drop the car in Orvieto and still get on the faster train to Naples.

Auto Europe was $100 more for the same car/same dates. AutoEurope and Kemwel are sister companies (something I learned in the forum).

My husband really wants to see Pompeii so it is a must. He likes history but he's not passionate about it. I'm sure he'll get his fill.

We like to move around and explore. That is why our trip is structured the way it is.

notbob

Unless you entered your arrival or departure date incorrectly, I only see 20 nights and 21 days, Day 21 is the departure day. So you may need to revise your planning. I prefer to plan by using nights, I can keep better track of where accomodations need to be.

Like others mentioned, you seem to be running around quite a bit and are rathere unfocused. I'd suggest on arrival spending three nights in Florence and skipping the villa till later.

SO:

9/28 arrive Rome train to Florence - 3 nights
10/1 train to Venice - 3 nights
10/4 depart Venice to villa

I would be tempted to rent the car in Venice and drive to Tuscany. Me in a car and Florence don't get along too well and I do a lot to avoid it.

10/ 14 drop rental car someplace outside of Rome on the way, train to Rome and stay there until departure.

AquaGirl

Hi NotBob,

I probably just relayed my days wrong. I'm covered for the few hotels we have. I have been toying with the idea of adding a night to our Venice trip. I really want to be in San G for the Saturday market as our family/group has a party planned that night.

I'd like all to know that we want to see as much as we can on this trip. We travel a lot and we try to get as much in as possible. It's just who we are. I'm sure we'll settle down one day. I would say that our focus is on exploring Tuscany - hence the ten days there.

zeppole

Sorry. I missed your 10-day solid chunk in Tuscany.

I don't think it's a question of "settling down someday." It's that, apart from your 10 days in Tuscany, you're not leaving any time to see anything after spending considerable effort to get there. That's what I was trying to warn you against.

You say in your original post that your husband has never been to Italy, or even to Europe. So it's hard to know how he'll react to the Italian train system. It's possible to move fast if you rent a car in Italy. It gets a little more unpredictable when you rely on public transportation to cover all the geography you are trying to cover.

You don't have to go long distances to "fit in as much as possible" in Italy. You are zooming around to the most touristed and famous places to spend a few hours there doing the most touristy things. Without knowing more of your interests in history and wine, it's hard to tell if you're going to the places and doing the things you'd personally find most interesting.

ellenem

<<A 5-day pass for 2 is $300 each. >>

Does that include reservations and supplements for the high-speed trains I suspect you will want to use? Just want to make sure because often people don't consider these extra costs when making the comparisons between point-to-point and passes.

AquaGirl

Thanks EllenM - I will confirm that for sure before I jump on the pass idea.

bobthenavigator

I have 2 comments.
That $432 sounds high to me--did you compare on trenitalia or Raileurope?
And, for leather you need to shop at Piazza Santa Croce and compare shops---and negotiate for sure.

AquaGirl

Hi bobthenavigator,

I priced on Rail Europe - bad idea? I will look at trenitalia too. I did try a search on RailEurope and saw that there seemed to be a $26 fee for pass holders (per an earlier comment). I may just forgo the pass and pay-to-train.

Thanks so much for the leather jacket recommend. I'm adding that to my notes!

MichaelL913

Hi AquaGirl,

It sounds like you'll have a great time however you divide your days in Italy! I would probably add more time to the Venice part of your trip, as there is an incredible amount to do there. It's a really romantic place to celebrate a birthday or anniversary. You would likely want a full day to enjoy Murano and Burano if you like wandering (or shopping). If your husband likes history, he might enjoy a trip to the island Torchello (unless you hire a boat, you would take the vaperetto from Venice to Burano, then take a tronchetto from there to Torchello). There's an ancient church on Torchello with some amazing mosaics, and it seems somewhat off the wildly crowded tourist trail. Sept/Oct should be a good time to be there. I would agree with the others who say to do more time in a single block in Florence. I think you'll get a better feel for this wonderful city if you spend several consecutive days rather than several days spread out. However you do it, though, I'm sure it'll be great.

As for restaurants, my favorite restaurant in Florence (a seafood restaurant) is "I Quatro Amici" (I think it means "the four friends&quot on Via degli Orti Oricellari 29. It is very near the train station. The fish is on dispaly (on ice, thankfully) in the restaurant, and the chef does a great job with it. They also have wonderful homemade pastas and a nice wine selection. I highly recommend it. I've been with and without reservations, but if you wanted to be sure of a table, the number is 055-215413. Also in Florence, I really enjoyed "Acqua Al 2" (I think this means "water for 2&quot on my last trip. It is more of a mixed menu, including meats. There's a video monitor in the main dining room, and you can watch what's happening in the kitchen. It's not very big, so if you went, I think you'd probably want a reservation (phone 055-284170). It is on Via della Vigna Vecchia 40/R, which is not far from the Uffizi.

In Venice, I've been twice to Trattoria Tre Spiedi, which had the feel of a family restaurant with great food. I'm not sure of the exact address, but it is close to the Rialto and your hotel could show you on a map (the phone number is 041-52-08-035); the prices seemed very reasonable for Venice. I also really liked Osteria Anice Stellato, which has a number of fish dishes, but it is somewhat out of the way, in the Cannaregio area, which is more residential than touristy. The food is great, though, and you'd probably want a reservation (Phone 041-720744, address is Fondamenta de la Sensa Cannaregio 3272). Can you tell I keep business cards when I like a restaurant?!

Just a general restaurant tip - be skeptical when asking hotel staff for recommendations. I've had mostly bad recommendations from them, though that may just be my experience. I've been told they often get a commission from the restaurant, so the referral may be based more on the commission than the quality of the food.

Have a great time! I've had numerous trips of a week or so each, so I really envy that you will be spending a full 3 weeks at once!

Michael

AquaGirl

Micahel,
Thank you so much for the restaurant recommendations. I am adding them to my notebook.

The group in San G. has told me that we will do lots of trips to Florence. My in-laws and their friends have been going there together for years. I'm not sure if they plan on an overnight, but my husband and I can add a night or two in our 10 days in the area. I am thinking of the Alloro B&B for any extra nights as Casa Howard is a bit pricey and I got caught by their cancellation policy.

Jean

You might consider a visit to Ostia Antica as a day trip from Rome rather than going all the way to Sorrento to see Pompeii. Not as famous but beautifully preserved and likely to be less crowded.

http://www.initaly.com/regions/latium/ostia.htm

BTW, I calculate you'll spend about 16 hours on trains during the three weeks. That's the equivalent of 2-3 days of actually seeing Italy.

bobthenavigator

Raileurope is more expensive. I doubt if you need the pass but you can compare rather easily.

kybourbon

A rail pass is rarely cost effective for Italy. For any of the faster trains (AV,ES,ICPlus) seat reservation are required and you will have to be an additional fee for these trains - 15€ each($23.70). These are the type of trains you will likely be using between Rome/Florence, Florence/Venice and Naples/Rome. So you will need to add about $125 to the cost of each pass for seat reservations. The Leonardo (11&euro and Circumvesuviana (3-4&euroare not covered by the pass.

On some legs of your travel (perhaps the Florence/Siena part) there will be no class option as you could be on one of the slower trains (all one class and no seat reservations allowed). For some of your travel a bus will be a better/faster option. You can take a bus from Rome to Siena from Rome Tiburtina station (5&euro. www.senabus.it To get to Tiburtina from FCO, take the local train (not the Leonardo).

FWIW - 2nd class is fine on the faster trains (more comfortable than airline coach) and most of your train trips are 3 hours or less. If you purchase your tickets from Trenitalia, you can get the amica discount (20%). Tickets on Trenitalia will include the seat reservation in the price.
http://www.trenitalia.com/en/index.html

Since you will be in Italy so long, you might consider leasing a car instead of renting which is cheaper. I think the minimum number of days for a lease is 17.

zeppole

I absolutely agree that the many of the destinations will mean extra money or are better done by bus.

ky,

Car lease is worth checking out but it's probably also worth it to take the quoted rate to autoeurope and ask if they can match it. I think some italian rental companies have tried to become more competitive with the leasing programs by offering long-term rentals.

Also, is it still the case that minimum 17-day leasing option is only available from Peugeot or Renault? While you can pick up and return their cars in Italy, it's only possible in a very few locations.

But maybe there are other leasing deals I'm unaware of.

AquaGirl

Thanks for the comments. I tried to look at tickets on trenitalia but I think I am too early - no prices where given. Maybe I will sign up for an account and then they'll appear.

I think I'll forgo the Train Pass - thanks to all for opening my eyes to that situation.

I will share the Lease idea with the in-laws who are staying for 5 weeks and they want a car the entire time.

I have given my husband a reading assignment - decide what you want to see in Venice so I can determine if we need another day. I plan way in advance - he reads the travel book on the plane. Hmmmmm~

I will also look into driving from Venice. If we stay an extra night and leave early the next morn, I'm sure we can get to the Sat. Market in San G. and make the Villa party.