smecky

We are excited to plan an adventure for our family in mid to late August. We'll be traveling with a 14-year old boy and 12-year old girl who have never been to Europe though they've been fabulous travelers of North America. We are active and happy to walk lots, love art and architecture, music, food, and history.

Because of the way we booked our flights using miles, we'll fly into London and plan to spend 3 nights there and then take Eurostar (chunnel) to Paris. We'll fly back to the states from Barcelona 3 weeks later.

As I research, I've run across may useful forum threads and made scores of notes (thank you!). But I could use some help narrowing down the possibilities, please.

Here is the rough itinerary as I'm laying it out:

3 days London (hotel)
... looking at hotels maybe in the Westminster neighborhood so we can walk to some places, tube to others. Other suggestions for neighborhoods to consider?
... 4th day -- chunnel to Paris in the afternoon

4-5 days Paris (apartment)
... includes lots of city exploring and day trip to Versailles
... suggestions on the neighborhood we should consider?

7 days exploring potentially with rail pass (prefer train to car = more relaxing)
... this is the murkiest part, we would like to visit the Provence area of France and are drawn to St Remy, L'Isle sur la Sourge, and Aix en Provence. Maybe Cassis or Arles. Suggestions?

... but we are also curious about high-speed town hopping in southern Spain, including Cordoba, Granada, Malaga to absorb the fascinating history there.

5ish days in Barcelona (apartment)
... may include day trip to a beach towns tbd

OR,

We could go spend more time in Provence and go straight from Provence to Barcelona and skip southern Spain altogether considering it will be quite hot in southern Spain. (Southern Spain sounded the most different and exciting to me, frankly, but the heat warnings from other travelers are giving me pause. Is it really that bad? We know how to pace ourselves in the heat.) I'm also not as excited intially about the north coast of Spain. The vineyards are only mildly interesting to us and less so to the kids, obviously. I am looking forward to Barcelona. (Husband and I have been to London and Paris, but not Spain.)

Thoughts? Suggestions?

I've made lists of things to do in London, Paris, and Barcelona and will need to whittle those down eventually, but I'm eager to lock in our apartment and hotel reservations next so we know we'll have places to lay our heads that are 1) safe, 2) clean, 3) fairly convenient to sites or public transportation, 4) not too too expensive.

I appreciate any/all feedback! Thanks in advance.

Michael

Heat is bad in southern Spain. We did it without AC a long time ago in July or August, and I would not recommend even with AC.

For teens, I would think that the Dordogne might be more interesting than the Provence, but that requires a car.

On the other hand, having a car for the Dordogne means that it can be dropped off near the Spanish border on the way to Barcelona (cross-border drop-off fees are steep) and gives you the opportunity for some beach time along the French Mediterranean coast. Or there are some interesting locations in the Pyrénées orientales; the Michelin Green Guide for that area and for the Dordogne would be in order. Have the children read them to see what interests them.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mksfca/...64797649/show/

StuDudley

I agree with Michael. Provence & the Dordogne are our two favorite regions in France (in addition to Paris). We've spent 18 weeks in Provence and 10 in the Dordogne. Not too sure I would want to be in Provence in August, however, because of the crowds. I think the Dordogne would hold the interests of your kids more, with all the caves with pre-historic paintings plus stalactites & mites, castles, medieval jousting demonstrations, birds of prey shows, canoeing on the Dordogne River, pretty countryside, cute little villages, Sarlat, and other things you & the teens might like. However, like Michael stated - you'll need a car. I would take the train from Paris to Brive la Gaillard, rent a car, visit the unique village of Collonges la Rouge near Brive, then stay near Sarlat/Beynac/Roque Gageac.

After the Dordogne, drive to Collioure for some beach time. Explore the Costa Brava in Spain by car on day-trips, dump the car in Perpignan, and then take the train to Barcelona.

Stu Dudley

Robert2533

In mid to late August I would head for the Basque coast. It has everything you're looking for (We are active and happy to walk lots, love art and architecture, music, food, and history) and it will be far less crowded than Paris, Provence or Barcelona.

www.basquecountry-tourism.com
www.donostia.org
www.ssconvention.com

nytraveler

IMHO to me southern Spain is one of the most fascinating parts of europe due to its unique heritage.

However, we go in April to avoid the worst of the summer (April is already hot - high 80s and beach weather). In midsummer temps often top 100 and can go well above 110 at times, I would save it for another time of year - or you spend much of the day either in a pool or sitting in an AC room.

I would go for southern France and I would do it by car - which is much more convenient for the towns in the hills behind the coast.

smecky

I hadn't investigated the Dordogne but I will. My kids are strongly voting for castles over caves and beaches over mountains. And we would really prefer not to rent a car, so that may be a dealbreaker. But I will look at it.

Re the Basque coast... I'll investigate that, too. Thank you for the links.

StuDudley

>>And we would really prefer not to rent a car, <<

Do you not drive a car where you live now??

Stu Dudley

smecky

How would families of teens get along without carpools? Yes -- we drive all the time and have done many cross-country road trips in the US. But there is a certain amount of anxiety that goes along with driving in foreign countries and navigating your way vs. getting to the train station and reading or playing cards together until we arrive at our destination. I think it's more relaxing for all of us to be together on the train than to drive. And frankly, it's likely my husband that would be driving. He needs the vacation most of all, and is not keen to drive this trip. I suppose if we determined that our top priority destinations were only accessible via car (as in the US), that would be a different story. But so far, that's not the case.

Michael

A rail pass is unnecessary if you intend to visit Arles, Aix, Avignon and other large towns in the area. Just use the bus services or the local train service where available. TGV tickets from Paris to Aix (or whichever town you choose) should be ordered three months in advance to get cheap non-exchangeable, non-refundable tickets. Marseille and the Chateau d'If (where the Count of Monte-Cristo was emprisoned under his previous identity) is an easy train or bus ride from Aix.

For the cute villages you will need a car.

maxima

You could take a train from Paris to Carcassonne in Languedoc. Carcassonne is an olda walled city with a castle (and hordes of tourists) it also has lower town that is not as crowded with day tourists

From Carcassonne you can travel by train to Narbonne and continue to Barcelona

Ackislander

I have noted all too many times that I no longer drive in Italy or the UK but driving in the Dordogne is easy and the roads are well-marked. I second or third those who recommend it for teens. The one downside is that the food is a bit heavy and the locals are extremely proud of it, so it is sometimes hard to find lighter meals. Otherwise, really good.

Provence will also be very hot at that time of year and full of French people (well, I never!). I think it would be better in early September after the reentree when all the kids go back to school and the parents go back to work.

kimhe

The summer heat in southern Spain doesn't bother me at all, but of course some people will be put off by 100+ on a regular basis. Travellers flock to the Andalucian coast in the summer where its a bit cooler. Here along the coast you'll find genuine Andalucian cities such as Málaga and Cádiz with 3000 years of Phoenician, Roman, Christian, Jewish, Moslem and Gitano history and culture. And especially Cádiz is known for great beaches.

But you should also take a look at the beautiful Basque country as Robert2533 suggests. This fabulous coastline has been a favourite summer destination for the Spanish themselves for a couple of hundred years, it's the number one food region of Spain (you'll find some 4-5 of the world's best restaurants in this small and food-crazy region), wonderful beaches etc. etc.
http://tourism.euskadi.net/en/

kerouac

Driving around southern France would be much more relaxing than working out the logistics of trains and buses -- you stop when and where you want and don't have to rush to make connections.

Tulips

Driving in an airconditioned car, stopping where you want and when you want versus train (and possibly bus to get to some places); for me driving would be infinitely more relaxing.
But depends on what you want to do; visiting cities is ok by train, but try to find public transportation to a castle in the French countryside, is someting else.

Driving in France is easy; well sign-posted, good roads, and you can get a gps/satnav.

smecky

Ok, I'm reconsidering driving in France and visiting the Basque country in Spain.

Regarding our bigger city visits, does anyone have recommendations for the neighborhoods we should consider staying in London (hotel), Paris (apartment) and Barcelona (apartment)?

Lexma90

We've visited all of the places that you've mentioned, with our teen-aged kids, and they loved all of them. But they did especially like the great castles and prehistoric sites in the Dordogne. And yes, you really need a car. But driving in the Dordogne is no easier, IMHO, then driving in semi-rural areas in the U.S., except that the signage is better in the Dordogne. Barcelona was especially interesting because of the Art Deco architecture and Miro and Dali (we also made a visit to Dali's museum in Figueres).

In London, we prefer the Covent Garden / Bloomsbury area. On our last visit, we stayed in a nice little hotel in Belgravia, near Victoria Station. Good for tube connections, but we prefer the livier area near Covent Gardent. Paris, we like the 6th Arr. And Barcelona, the Bari Gothic. But we always stay in hotels, not apartments, so I can't offer any help on that front.

Tulips

In London; South Kensington is always good. Try to be close to South Kensington Station, for easy transport and lots of sites within walking distance. Or Gloucester Road; more hotels, and better value. But closer to South Ken is nicer.

Robert2533

For staying in an apartment in Barcelona, I'd look at both the left and right Eixample, close to the Passeo de Gracia. You can also consider the Born.

In Paris, we stay in the 6th and 7th arrondissements, but the 4th, part of the Marais, has some nice apartments.

Michael

You may want to take a look at my June 2011 trip report starting in Bordeaux and covering some areas that you would drive through going to the Spanish border if interested in the Basque country; click on my name to find it.

StuDudley

>>Ok, I'm reconsidering driving in France and visiting the Basque country in Spain.<<

I'm confused. How are you going to drive in France & visit the Basque country in Spain? What is your itinerary?

We've spent 10 weeks in the Dordogne and 4 weeks in the French Basque country (2 weeks last year - in Sare). We prefer the the Dordogne a LOT more - especially for teens. There is a much larger variety of stuff to do in the Dordogne, IMO. Your kids might get a little bored in the French Basque region - especially if the weather isn't cooperating. The coast along the Med (Collioure) normally gets much better/drier weather than along the Atlantic (Basque). My guide book says the Pays Basque gets more rain than Ireland - and that's why it is so green there. The streets kinda "roll up" at night in the cities - at least they did in Bayonne in late June last year. Not in San Sebastian, however. If you are a foodie - the upper-end restaurants are better in the Pays Basque.


Getting to Barcelona from the Basque area is more complicated than getting there from Collioure/Perpignan.

I strongly recommend Dordogne/Collioure.

Stu Dudley