3 weeks in December in Europe, need help with itinerary
 

My cousins and I will be in Europe from Dec 6 - 29, and we're trying to fit in a loose itinerary. We're all 21-23 years old, and I'm looking for the safest/cheapest options.

Dec 6-18 will just be 2 of us, and the rest are meeting up on the 18/19th.
Our plan for now is France/Italy
Bordeaux (2 days) > Paris (3 days) > Provence/Nice (any recommendations? instead/etc? Normandy?) (3 days?) > Rome (3 days) > Naples/Pompeii (2 days) > Florence (3 days) > Venice (2 days)

December 18/19-29
Budapest (3) > Vienna (3) > Salzburg (1) > Prague (3)

My question is 1) Is this too much? Trying to see as much as I can without it being overwhelming or TOO crazy. I'm willing to change up the itineraries as long as I fly out of Prague on the morning of the 29th.

2) Should I get an Italy/France rail pass for the first 12 days, or will it be cheaper to just train it? I know the rail pass is more cost effective if used over a larger span of time...

3) Any location to take out/add? I am big on art/history.

Any recommendations/tips/anything would be great and much appreciated.

Thanks so much.

Have any of you ever been to europe before?

I'm afraid what you have here is more a forced march - and not a vacation. You are there in winter and will have to deal with cold and rain/snow, the days will be very short - getting dark by 4 pm, and a lot will be closed.short hours on 12/14 and closed on 12/15.

You have not allocated any time to get from one place to another - and will find that what you thing is a full day in a city is a few hour in the afternoon and perhaps mostly after dark. Even 2 nights in a city is only one full day.

In the time you have (22 days actually on the ground) I would do no more than 5 different cities (5 hotels total). Some of you choices I don;t understand (Bordeaux in winter? what is there to see/do?), Provence/Nice in winter???.

You are best off with large cities which will be least affected by the weather and there is the most to do indoors. Unless you are going for a winter sports holiday the countryside will be brown, crunchy, dreary and boring.

Oooh, okay. Thanks so much!

The latter part of the trip (Budapest, Vienna, Prague) is pretty much set, do you think we should take out a city for that too? Just do Vienna/Salzburg/Prague?

We've all been to Europe before, but not during the Winter, and not more than one country at once. We plan on staying in hostels.

Also, yeah I figured it was a lot of destinations at once. I'll be in Spain up until December 6th, so we were thinking of moving up towards Paris, which is why Bordeaux was an option, but neither of us have been to Europe in the Winter so we had no idea what was appropriate or not. If, say, we cut out France altogether and just do Italy, would it be better to get an Italy rail pass?

Thanks again!! Your input has been much appreciated haha

It does seem like a lot to me... Ideally I like to spend a minimum of 3 nights per city, but except for Paris, which I could stay in for weeks at a time, I find after 5 days I'm more than ready to move on somewhere else.

From the 6-18 I would probably concentrate on Paris and Italy, then move on to Budapest, Vienna and Prague. I did the first 2 in 2012, really enjoyed both, and I'm visiting Prague this October. The train between Budapest and Vienna is only a couple hours (I think?) so you can leave one place after breakfast and be there by lunch easily.

Have fun!!

Too many places for that amount of time. As noted, you've made no accounting for travel time between places.

And why Bordeaux? I'd scratch that until you're about 40.

It's true the train is only a little more than 3 hours - but counting time from one hostel to the next you're more like 4.5 or 5 hours. And are the OPs going to be getting up for a 7:30 am train (doesn't sound like it). If you don;t get on a train until 10 am you've blown most of the daylight by the time you get to the next city.

I think Budapest, Prague and Vienna are great for that time of year - but you can't do them with both France and Italy. I would do with France (Paris and probably Alsace) for a doable trip. If you choose Italy instead of France - you need to limit it to 2 or 3 places - not 5 or mor.

Thanks so much for all of your input!

Still haven't discussed with my cousin between France or Italy, but if France - Paris/Alsace, and if Italy - Rome/Florence with a day trip to Pompeii?

OK would this be a realistic itinerary for the second half? I feel like it's a bit much, but Salzburg is a must for my cousins, so should we cut out Budapest or is this doable?

19-21 Budapest
22 travel to Salzburg in the morning, spend day/night there
23 spend day in Salzburg, travel to Vienna that evening/night
24-25 Vienna
26 morning travel to Prague
27-28 Prague
29 - leave Prague

Budapest to Salzburg and then backtracking to Vienna doesn't make sense. Did you check the map? You'll be travelling through Vienna enroute to Salzburg.

Why not Budapest - Vienna - Salzburg - Prague if you have to see all these places?

Just a comment on the time of year you'll be traveling.. The Christmas Markets in Austria are not to be missed. We visited Salzburg for the markets in 2010 and 2013. We have visited many times in the past, but during the markets the Christmas/holiday atmosphere is incredible. The smells of outdoor food stands and chestnuts roasting, small wood fires to warm yourself by, the lights, stalls selling ornaments and just about everything else, mulled hot wine and hot chocolate, a wonderful experience. The best time is just after it gets dark, around 4 pm, and afterwards.

http://www.worldisround.com/home/pja1/index.html

Paul

If I may add, 24 and 25 December in Vienna will be terribly disappointing for sightseeing. Nothing at all will be open on Christmas Day; and the few museums and Christmas markets that are open at all on 24 December will close early. 26 December is also a holiday in Austria and Czech Republic (Boxing Day), so expect considerable closures on that day, as well.

Thanks! We were worried about the train schedules on 24/25 which is why we planned it Salzburg first in order to be in Vienna on Xmas, but...not quite sure what to do about it now.

@fourfortravel, oh no, where would you recommend for Christmas?

bazoftin, I live in Vienna and so our Christmas holidays are spent at home, and then we usually leave Vienna after Christmas for a city break holiday somewhere else. If you plan to be in Vienna over those days, I would make the most of museum and Christmas market sightseeing on 24 December, and would suggest making reservations for dinner on both of those days in advance.

As you get closer to your travel dates, you should be able to check the holiday hours for markets and sightseeing places of interest to help plan your time better.