shoonye

Will appreciate any feedback on this three week itinerary planning for this autumn. We are four mature adults, so I'm tending towards a car instead of train. I've driven in Europe (Germany and Austria) before with manual stick though France and Italy will be new to me.

Feel free to castigate severely if you think the itinerary or any portion of it is outright silly.

16-Sep Land in Paris
17-Sep Paris Local
18-Sep Paris Local
19-Sep Paris Local
20-Sep Drive to Amboise (Overnight) "Fontainebleau ; Versailles ; Chartres"
21-Sep Drive to Beaune (Overnight) "Chambord ; Chenonceau ; Clos de Vougeot ; Beaune ; Cote d'Or"
22-Sep Drive to Lauterbrunnen (Overnight) "Beaujolais ; Geneva ; Gstaad ; Trümmelbachfälle"
23-Sep Lauterbrunnen "Train to Wengen or Muerren ; Hike around (Greutschalp to Muerren or Scheindgg Klein)"
24-Sep Drive to Lucerne (Overnight) "Grindelwald ; Cog wheel train from Brienz to Rothorn Kulm or Engelberg cable ride to Mt Titlis"
25-Sep Drive to Morcote(Overnight) "Three Pass Drive (Furka, Susten, Grimsel) ; Gotthard Pass ; Lake Lugano"
26-Sep Drive to Venice "Dolomites (via Bolzano) or Verona ; Venice by night"
27-Sep Venice "Venice"
28-Sep Drive to San Gimignano (Overnight) "Bologna (Brunch) ; Pisa ; Volterra"
29-Sep Overnight at San Gimignano "Florence ; Chianti"
30-Sep Overnight at San Gimignano. "San Gimignano ; Siena ; Montalcino"
1-Oct Drive to Sorrento (Overnight) "Pompeii"
2-Oct Overnight at Sorrento "Capri"
3-Oct Drive to Rome (Overnight) "Amalfi coast drive ; Paestum or Ostia Antica"
4-Oct Rome (Return Car) "Vatican ; Caesar Shuffle"
5-Oct Rome
6-Oct Flyout

Doble_Vergasser

Well it looks pretty good but very busy.

however,
27-Sep Venice "Venice"
28-Sep Drive to San Gimignano (Overnight) "Bologna (Brunch) ; Pisa ; Volterra"

If I understand, your plan is to leave Venice in the early am.

In car
Midmorning Bologna 2.5 hours

Then Volterra 2.25 hours

Then Pisa 1.25 hours

Then to San Gignano 1.5 hours


So you are talking about 8 hours in the car (Best case, could be 10 easily), and touring two or three towns.

This day may be overly ambitious.

Regarding Rome, unless you have reservation at a place with its own parking you might want to drop the car immediately (not keep it over night).

ira

Hi S,

Your Amboise to Beaune day is very ambitious. It's about 5+ hr of driving. What will you actually see?

You will be in your car for at least 11 days out of your 20.

You will pay a high drop-off fee to leave the car in Rome.

I see no point to this expedition, except to cover a lot of territory.

I urge you to rethink this plan. It will be very wearing, whether by train or car.



PS: Paestum is in the opposite direction from Rome.

shandy

As already mentioned, a couple of the days involve very long drives but if you are prepared to put up with that I see no real problem.

Don't necessarily be put off by Ira's comments. Yes, you will only get to see the major sites with this itinerary and nothing in depth, but if this is what you want on this occasion that is fine. Not everyone gets to Europe as often as Ira and therefore can just pick one or two regions to explore throughly knowing that they can go somewhere else next time. It will also give you a good overview of areas to identify that you would like to come back to at some later stage.

You will no doubt get some comments that it is way too much moving around and that you should stay in the one place for a few days and do day trips. Personally I prefer to keep on the move every day or two and not spend my time backtracking over the same ground to return to the same hotel each night. To me that is a waste of time. I can be completely packed and checked out of the hotel in 30 mins or so and fortunately have rarely had trouble finding accommodation in the new destination. I am big into staying at local pensionnes, gasthaus, B&B's etc. which probably increases my options. A number of my most enjoyable stays have been from choosing places as we drive past (also the odd not so great one to be honest).

As you will be travelliing in autumn it will not be peak season and you can probably get away with not pre-booking accommodation in most places. It will be a bit harder with 4 of you rather than 2 though, especially if you are considering B&B's options.

I must say that constantly being on the move can be more stressful if all your accommodation is pre-booked and therefore you have to make that night's hotel reservation even if you feel you don't want to drive any further or it much later than you anticipated and are you still driving during the night. It also means, of course, that there is no option of saying "This place is fantastic, lets stay here a day or two extra and drop XXX" or "It's expected to be pouring with the rain for the next 2-3 days, let push on towards Italy immediately".

One other comment I would make is, with this much driving and four of you in the car, make sure you choose a car big enough to accommodate you all comfortably. The extra expense will be well worth it. Also don't under estimate how much luggage 4 people can accumulate and it WILL increase as you keep on going - it always does - so you need a good boot capacity. Seatiang in the back seat with day packs etc. on your laps or under your feet for hours on end is not fun

Regardless of what you choose, have a great trip. I wish I could be doing it.

bobthenavigator

Be sure to get your car via the French buy back program. Also, drop the Amalfi coast--that is your extreme point---spend more time in Tuscany and the Berner Oberland--they are special.

Devra

I have to agree with Ira. You will be spending most of your time in the car. It will certainly not make for a very relaxing vacation. I have traveled by car staying in one place and making day trips and by packing and moving each day. You might consider a combo, for the chateaux in France, Tuscany and Sorrento.

Have you checked your itinerary on mappy.com? It will give you travel time. For instances, it is quite a distance from Venice to San Gimignano, even if you are taking the toll road most of the way. Then you have to take into consideration finding parking. You also need to take into account the possibility the Italians are doing roadwork somewhere on the “B” roads and that could eat up time too, not to mention traffic in general.

You might consider saving Southern Italy for another time and spend more time around the lakes. A lot to see there too. If, however, you just can’t miss the Sorrento part of your trip you might consider making Sorrento a base for seeing Capri and the Amalfi coast. You could see Pompeii on the way to or from, but to go all the way to Sorrento then back to Rome and then back past Sorrento to the Amalfi coast makes no sense. Ostia Antica is between the airport and Rome. Paestum is way out of the way.

For three weeks or more it more economical to lease a car than rent. The car companies may also charge you more to drive your car into Italy. There’s also a road fee for Switzerland, and the freeways are toll roads in France and Italy. With 4 adults anything less than a midsized car and up will be cramped and very lacking in storage space.

Whatever your itinerary, I hope you have a great time. Happy travels.

Doble_Vergasser

One warning, drive times on Mappy and Viamichelin are estimates, not field tested. You will want to use a cushion factor on days where you have a lot of car hours (from personal experience 3.5 car hours becomes 5.5 car hours).

shoonye

Thanks for this great feedback.

Ira: I share your sentiments. I omitted to mention that I'm a driving fan and most of my travel is built around that activity. You're right though. There is some scope for eliminating a few stops on a couple of days.

Shandy: <A BIG grin> Thanks for the endearing words. This is my first trip to these parts of Europe and I'm looking at it more like a highlight trip. I do not know if when I will ever get the opportunity to devote time to Europe at all. My intent was to see some of the places reading literature has really made me want to see, catch some great scenery on the way and then forget europe for a while and get some real adventure in Africa, Latin America and the middle east.

I too am checking out local guesthouses and pensions with character booking some at places where it will still be peak season. We're not the hilton / marriott /starwood types.

We're getting a midsize wagon.

Bobthenavigator: I'm very confused on this buyback thing. I've compared prices and through autoeurope the 17 day rate (including CDW and theftprot) for say a Renault Megane comes out to be substantially cheaper then the Eurodrive program.

Devra: Thanks for all the tips. I must have not made it clear but the intention is to see Pompeii on the way to Sorrento and loop around the Amalfi coast drive on the way back to Rome from Sorrento. I'm going to drop Paestum.

Once again, thanks everyone for this great feedback.

annhig

Sorry to add to your woes but Paris to Amboise and back to Versailles [if i've understood you correctly] would be crackers. Reading your post again, perhaps you are going via these places - if so, you'll have very little time to see them. Versailles alone merits a whole day. Ditto most of the places you are doing the next day.
My suggestion would be to pick a few centres, and use them as bases for your travels. You'll see a lot more and not be so tired. Amboise would make a good base, as would Beaujolais and Lucerne, and any of the many places you want to visit in Italy. If you are going to be looking for 2 standard double rooms, you should have no problem getting accommodation on speck, though I would book in advance for Paris.
If you stick rigidly to your schedule, you'll end up exhausted and missing out on lots of places you'd like to get to konw better, and too tired to explore the others; also, when you get back, you'll never remember anything except the driving!
Sorry to be so frank, but you did say we were free to castigate you!

jabez

I totally agree with Ira. Your trip looks great ,if it were at least a week longer. I'd skip Sorrento and rethink Rome in favor of leaving from Florence .

bobthenavigator

That surprises me--look at the renaultUSA program and factor in the pick up in France and drop in Rome.

shoonye

Here's an actual quote on the rental (through autoeurope) versus renaultusa program for a Renault Megane picked up in Paris on 20 Sept and returned in Rome on 7 Oct.

Auto Europe = USD 550 + 390 (drop fee)
This includes CDW and Theft Protection

RenaultUSA = USD 1050 + 275 (drop fee)

Thats a substantial difference. Plus autoeurope gives me multiple convenient choices for pickup and drops as opposed to a 2-3 choices provided by Renault.

shoonye

I'm sorry autoeurope is 675 + 390. The difference is still significant.

Smelly_Kev

28-Sep Drive to San Gimignano (Overnight) "Bologna (Brunch) ; Pisa ; Volterra"
29-Sep Overnight at San Gimignano "Florence ; Chianti"
30-Sep Overnight at San Gimignano. "San Gimignano ; Siena ; Montalcino"

Man you are nearly doing the same as us. Will get back to you on that. My personal fav will be finding some good local Chianti to have with a steak out in the Classico hills. This much malined wine has a real place in my heart and goes perfect with a good bit of Tuscan Beef