autumntumn

I am currently in the beginning stages of planning a 3-ish week trip to the UK and Ireland. I am going with my fiancé, my best friend, and my brother. We have the dates we are going, Monday the 14th of May, 2018 through Friday the 1st of June, 2018. The dates are pretty concrete as our time off has just been approved. Although, we may leave the Saturday before and return the Sunday after (giving us 23 days, versus 19), but this is not set in stone, yet.

Ideally, we would like to see all four countries in the UK as well as Ireland. I know it will be a tight trip, but this is not something we may ever get to do again so I would hate to skip Northern Ireland or Wales and never get the chance to go back. We have a *very* rough outline of what we will be doing/where we will be going, but I would love suggestions.

Day 1: Arrive in London early morning & travel straight to Wales
Days 1 – 3: Wales – see Cardiff Castle, Conway Castle, Snowdonia National Park
Days 4 – 7: Ireland/Northern Ireland – see Cliffs of Moher, Blarney Castle, Killarney National Park, Tollymore Forest Park, Giant’s Causeway
Days 8 – 12: Scotland – see Urquhart Castle, Edinburgh Castle, Dunnottar Castle
Days 13 – 19: England – see Roman Baths, Stonehenge, Buckingham Palace, Warwick Castle, Hadrian’s Wall, Cotswolds, Dover Cliffs, Parliament, 10 Downing Street, Trafalgar Square
Day 19: Leave from London late afternoon

Some information about us. We are all in our mid-twenties and we are from Michigan in the US. We love history, visiting museums (art, war, industrial, natural science, you name it and we want to visit), and seeing nature. I really hope to be in the area when Prince Harry and Meghan get married, supposedly on the 26th of May. This is a once in a lifetime opportunity, especially for an American, and I would love to be there (well, not there, exactly) versus watching on TV at home.

Another important thing is that we love driving. It is a bit odd, but we would rather have a long drive through the countryside versus taking a plane to speed up the trip. I feel like we can really see the most of these countries by driving through them. Now, I have heard that it is a nightmare to drive through the bigger cities, especially for someone used to driving on the opposite side of the road. We plan to use Airbnb and hope to stay in an area just outside of the major cities we visit (within walking distance or take the bus/the Tube) to avoid driving in them. I listed no museums because I really need recommendations on which ones are a must and which can be skipped as well as other things to do. So, any help is appreciated!

janisj

I only have time for a very quick comment right now. But you do not have NEARLY enough time for what you want to see/do.

Days 1-3 for instance: assuming you arrive at LHR in the morning it will be late afternoon before you will get to Cardiff. No sightseeing that day except maybe a short walk around (plus you may be he lagged). Two days is about 2or 3 days too few to see places on opposite ends of Wales.

You will have 3.5 days in Ireland and again you want to see places all the way from Belfast to Killarney.

3.5 days is not enough time for places that far apart in Scotland . . . And so on. 5 countries including just the sites you mention would take about six (fast paced) weeks.

When recalculating - figure about 35mph (40 if you are very lucky) in rural areas.

Back to the drawing board. Don't assume you will never return . . .

BigRuss

You need a map and a train schedule. Your plan is to travel to every corner of all four countries in the UK and crisscross the whole Island of Eire. The logistics alone will foreclose your plan. Plus, after a forced march like the one you'd need to cover all the places on your checklist, you'll be left with only a brother guaranteed - the fiance and best friend may not want to deal with you.

Here's the simplest advice: hub-and-spoke. You have 18 nights or so. You need to pick specific hubs and use those to travel to ____. Thus, you stay in London for a week and take a couple of day trips. You stay in Edinburgh for 5-6 nights and trip to Stirling and ____. Or stay in Edinburgh for 3-4 nights and Aberdeen or Inverness (area) for 3 to see other sites local to each. You stay in Dublin for 3 nights to see Dublin (which is generous, Edinburgh > Dublin and it's not close) and 3 in Killarney to see the ring of Kerry area, and possibly take a day trip with a tour group to go to the Giants' Causeway (Irish Rail used to run such tours, may still do so). These are suggestions, I'm not trying to make it all add up - that's on you.

Note that you can't "see" 10 Downing Street - you're not permitted to just saunter up the road and visit the PM's house. The road is closed off for protection.

autumntumn

I should have specified. The things listed above are just things we would like to see in the 5 countries, not have to. They are more of general ideas with no set plan exactly where we are traveling yet. We do plan to stay in one location for a few days and visit what is around it, just not sure the best places to stay at this point.

historytraveler

The problem is in trying to visit England, Wales, Scotland and most of Ireland in 18 days. Simply not possible. First get a map of these areas, figure distances and travel time. Use the journey planner on the aaroadwatch site to get travel times and then add 25% to 35% to these times for accuracy. When you realize your itinerary won't work, then start eliminating places. Example, for England you have a list that runs from the Cliffs of Dover ( southeast England ) to Hadrian's Wall in the far north of England. Do you realize how long it'll take to get from Dover to say Haltwhistle ? Check the travel time on aaroadwatch.

Please note that getting to Ireland from anyplace in Great Britain will require a flight. Taking a car across the Irish Sea is very expensive to name just one of the problems involved.

As for seeing anything in regard to the wedding which will be held at Windsor Castle outside of London, it'll be you and several hundred thousand others. Best seen on T.V.

janisj

You say you plan on staying a few nights in different areas . . .OK fine.

But in the VERY short time you have you can't do that in FIVE COUNTRIES. At very (very) most you could work in maybe 5 bases. 1) London, 2) Edinburgh, 3) maybe Conwy, 4) Dublin, 5) Belfast. Yep - that is five cou tries but you would not have enough time to explore more than a very small area in/around any of them.

Get a MAP and start over.

(I have been to every single place/site you list - several of them many multiple times. You simply can't plan a road trip like back home. I drive hundreds of miles at home in California. Sometimes 150 miles just for a special lunch. As I mentioned last night - I was posting from London - in much of be UK and Ireland you will be moving at 35 mph)

autumntumn

Thanks all for the feedback so far, everyone! So, if we eliminate Ireland/NI (sadly, but hopefully make that its own trip in the future) and stick to mainly England and Scotland, and maybe just a step inside Wales to say we've been there what would be the best way to do this?

Ideally, it would be best to still fly into London/surrounding airports because it is cheapest and then maybe take a (long) train up to Edinburgh and make our way down during the next 2+ weeks. Since most of what we want to see would be located in England, the best option would be to spend most of our time there. Say, 12 days in England and 7 days in Scotland (give or take)? The plan below seems to be a bit better, let me know if it seems doable or if any changes need to be made.

Day 1: Fly to London early morning, arrive via train in Edinburgh late evening (using time on the train to recover from jet lag, hopefully).
Day 3: Visit Edinburgh Castle and another local attraction (recommendations, please).
Day 4: Take a long day trip to Dunnottar Castle (Google Maps say roughly 2 – 3 hours).
Day 5: Visit Stirling Castle and the Wallace Monument.
Day 6: See the Royal Botanic Garden Edinburgh and HMY Britannia.
Day 7: Go to the Museum of Scotland, use rest of day pack up and get ready for the trip to England.
Day 8: Begin the 4 to 5-hour (per Google) trip from Edinburgh to the Liverpool/Manchester/Leeds area (recommendations which city is best to stay in), see Hadrian's Wall on the way
Day 9: Visit Yorkshire Dales National Park.
Day 10: Sightsee something locally (recommendations, please).
Day 11: Travel from Liverpool area to Bath, see Warwick Castle along the way.
Day 12: Spend the day in Bath, visit the Roman Baths.
Day 13: See Cotswolds or Stonehenge (need to pick one, recommendations, please).
Day 14: Travel from Bath to London, visit Buckingham Palace.
Day 15: Visit the National Gallery and Westminster Abbey.
Day 16: Visit Parliament/Big Ben, Westminster Abbey, maybe see more if time permits.
Day 17: Visit Dover Cliffs
Day 18: Spend last full day in London (recommendations, please).
Day 19: Fly home from London in the afternoon.

northie

Day 16 - Big Ben and Parliament are walk bys and you'll, see scaffolding on BigBen . You are going to Westminster Abbey on 2 days . Go when you are walking round Bigben and Parliament area.
Recommendation for last day - there are a thousand things - what do you like doing /seeing? Choose something from a guide book poor site that suits your interest .

bilboburgler

Suggest fly LHR to Edinburgh it will be quicker and your brain will be shot anyway.

Day 8 stay in York or Leeds (or a smaller town) don't cut across to Manchester.

bilboburgler

day 18, look up Leeds castle

autumntumn

Oops,I did not mean to put Westminster Abbey twice. I meant to put Trafalgar Square on Day 15. The flights from LHR to Edinburgh are all really cheap, might do that instead of take the train. Leeds Castle also looks beautiful, think we'll add that to day 18. Thanks for the tips.

janisj

Taking the train to Edinburgh is best IF you are already in London. But not when you are out at Heathrow. That would require crossing all of London and then 4.5 hours on the train. So -- IF you want to do Edinburgh first -- fly up a few hours after you land at LHR. (OR of course you can always reverse the order of the itinerary, start in London, then drive up country, drop car when you get to Edinburgh and fly down to LHR to fly home)

On the day you visit Dunnotar you could also fit in Glamis Castle or St Andrews. For example EDI (the best place to collect a rental car) > Dunnottar > St Andrews > Edinburgh totals about 5 hours car time. And EDI > Dunnottar > Glamis > Edinburgh a little less.

Your Edinburgh days are actually pretty light - you'll have time for more sites.

>>Begin the 4 to 5-hour (per Google) trip from Edinburgh to the Liverpool/Manchester/Leeds area<<

These are all in widely different parts of the country -- and why are you considering any of them? Why not York instead.

I would not stay in Bath -- difficult having a car and farther than you need to drive that day. I'd stay somewhere in the northern/wester Cotswolds instead. Broadway, Evesham, Chipping Campden, etc. Use that as a base for Warwick, South Wales, Bath, and Oxford.

For the London bits -- you CANNOT visit Buckingham Palace in June (it is open in August and september) and it is merely a 5 minute walk-by (and it is a short walk from there to Westminster Abbey/Big Ben (covered in Scaffolding) in one direction and Trafalgar Square in the other. So basically everything you have listed on days 14/15/16 can all be done in about 5 hours on the same day. So do those in a little over half a day - say on Day 15.

What else you can see/do in London -- hundreds of things but a very short list to get you started: The Tower of London (a MUST and takes about half a day. British Museum, Theatre, V&A, Hampton Court Palace (I'd do HCP instead of a Dover day trip).

Re the Kent bits -- I personally would not go to the White Cliffs/Leeds Castle. Dover Castle is magnificent but the best view of the cliffs is from the water. Leeds Castle is not that great a castle (mostly a wedding/corporate venue). It does have pretty grounds but isn't even the best garden around. And there are beautiful gardens right IN London. I would

autumntumn

So it appears we need to go back to the drawing board for our England portion of the trip. We actually just found out we will be getting an extra 4 days (so 23 total). Would it be unrealistic to cut a day off of Scotland and England each and then spend 6 days in Ireland (Dublin area)? Or is it a better idea to spend them in the two countries we are already visiting.

janisj

>>Would it be unrealistic to cut a day off of Scotland and England each and then spend 6 days in Ireland (Dublin area)?<<

short answer -- no

Your plan for Scotland/England/Wales/London plan was pretty rushed so if you have the luxury of a few extra days, don't make it even more rushed and then dash around Ireland like mad men. Add days along the current route. Add a day to Scotland - like not having to do Dunnottar as a day trip. You could use two days and see the fishing villages, St Andrews, Glamis and Dunnottar.

Add a day in the Yorkshire area so you can visit the Moors, Dales and have time en route to tour Hadrian's Wall. And maybe even adding a night between Edinburgh and York to see some of Northumberland/the coast (Alnwick and/or Bamburgh and/r Lindesfarne)

Add a day to the Cotswolds/south Wales bit (there is a LOT to see/do)

and of course you can add weeks to London and not see eveything.

janisj

OOPS - that's what happens when I post with jet lag

I read your question as whether it was 'realistic' and missed the 'un' bit. Yes, it is unrealistic . . . But I think you got the idea from the rest of my post.

BigRuss

Six days in Dublin area? Talk about overdoing it. Scotland > Ireland, Edinburgh > Dublin.