Anne

What experiences have you had travelling in France and Italy with your teenagers? Positive and ones that on reflection, you'd do differently.

kay

Hi <BR>I love your question as I will be doing the same this summer. <BR>My teens are 14 and 16, they happen to be interested in Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet so Verona is a must. I'm still up in the air about how many museums and castles we should do or just follow our nose and go where the wind blows...what have you planned? <BR>Thanks <BR>Kay

Jim

We are taking our teen sons, ages 16 and 14, to Europe this summer for the second year in a row. Last year, we visted Paris, London, Amsterdam and Brussells. This summer, we're going to Germany, Italy and Austria. They loved France, having taken a lot of French courses in middle and high school. They are great travelers, and shared the same interests in seeing the museums, castles, etc. They enjoyed last year the experience of hearing, reading and speaking French.

marilyn

We took our girls at 15 and 18 for a week in Paris, and they loved it. We stayed in a small hotel in two tiny rooms on different floors--just happened to be in different floors--and girls loved meeting in the breakfast room in the morning and being in charge of themselves in "their" room. Loved the breakfast buffet, and sitting in cafes and just the whole street scene in Paris--they took pictures of things like the little men in the traffic signals, the wrought iron gates, etc. The 15-year-old was pretty fluent after years of French courses, and loved feeling like she was "in" her French video. They loved Notre Dame, Champs Elyssee, Versailles, and Clingancourt flea market--loved working the metro route maps also. Liked Musee D'Orsay. <BR> <BR>When we were too tired from walking and wanted somewhere more pleasant to sit down than our teenytiny rooms, we went to "Version Originale" movies: we could follow the English, and also enjoy reading the French subtitles. Also enjoyed a free concert in a small church near our hotel. I think all four of us were willing to be flexible: we spent more time in shops on Champs Elyssee and ate at simpler places than we would have if it were just the two of us, they spent more time in some museums than they would have if it were left up to them.

Anne

Dear Kay, Jim and Marilyn, <BR>Thanks for your input. I am begining to have a vision. Teenagers like a certain amount of independence and sense of self sufficiency. Our daughter is 13 and has been acting since she was 7 yrs. old, so Verona is on our list. We hope to take in the opera the week of July 10. Our son is 16 and is studying Medeivel history, except he has been falling asleep in that class (even though he gets A's), so this trip will really wake him up. The introduction of languages before the trip seems to be a major connection. <BR> <BR>Here's the itinerary: Day after school lets out we go to Paris for 4 nights and stay in an apartment in Monmarte. We have rented a car for the month and will be staying 2 weeks in France and 2 weeks in Italy. 7/19 we drive to Riquewihr in Allsace and stay there 3 nights. Then we meander the Rue to Vin through Burgandy (1 night), Avignon (1 night) and then to a small hamlet outside of Forcualquier for one week in a gite. <BR> <BR>When you rent a house in France or Italy, probably for that matter anywhere, it is from Sat - Sat. 7/1 we drive to Tuscanny, a small hill town between Florence and Sienna and have a house there for 1 week... Then Vennice, Veronna and Lake Commo. <BR> <BR>What I find so amazing is that teenagers are so busy, very much into their own life and friends, and going to Europe is a concentrated time of being together as a family, encountering novelty and the unexpected together, basking in the beauty of the countryside, in history and art. I can't imagine the day to day griping having any place in such a journey. Perhaps some other type of griping may emerge. I would be amazed if it disappeared altogether. If anything, it's getting to know your kids in a different context, against the backdrop of culture and history. <BR> <BR>Just one other thing, walkie talkies, the grown up version, we found to be very helpful in Mexico at Winter break. They could go to the beach and we could stay in the condo but still communicate. <BR>I think we'll bring them so that when they get bored with a museum and we're not, they can take a stroll and we can still be in touch. <BR> <BR>Thanks for responding...let's keep talking. <BR>Anne <BR>

Rex

Anne, <BR> <BR>I have three such trips under my belt - - and I hope you'll indulge me while I tell you how the first such trip took me 29 years to envision, plan and execute. <BR> <BR>In 1968, I was supposed to go to Europe for six weeks on a study tour. It was a world of unrest, from the Chicago 7 and the clash of crowds with Mr. Daley and his police forces - - to similar rioting and overturned cars in the streets of Paris. My parents pulled the plug on my going to Europe (on a highly organized tour) at the last minute, and instead we did the "grand tour" of the great American west - - three weeks in a "woody" - - and to their credit, it was a great trip, seeing many things I have never gone back to see again. <BR> <BR>In 1969, they DID let me go on my study tour (it was focused on ancient civilization), and I fell in love with Europe. I have been back 16 times since then, and for 7 of the last 9 trips, I have been involved in taking others (sometimes family, sometimes not). <BR> <BR>But going back all the way back to 1969, I have had the notion - - call it corny, call it romantic - - that "some day", I too, would have my own kids, and I would take THEM on the "grand tour", but it would be to Europe, and not America (by the way, our family has also vacationed throughout a pretty good chunk of America). <BR> <BR>I did my first "tours" in 1994 and in 1996; they were modest, but I came home with the courage to start planning a trip for my own kids - - and maybe even a grander vision. So, in 1998, with my first daughter about to graduate high school, I turned my kids loose as "recruiters". To the extent that they had any friends whose families could afford it, I would take as many as they wanted to invite. <BR> <BR>It turns out that they found very few of their school friends whose interests and means fit the criteria. But we are from a big extended family, and our oldest daughter has two first cousins (of the 23 total) also graduating the same year - - we approached their parents (my wife's sister and brother) and they were delighted - - so much so that they proposed that we take ALL their kids. Ultimately, we added two boyfriends for a total of eleven, all total, ages 14 to 22. <BR> <BR>It probably took me 200 or more hours to plan, spanning 7 or 8 months (intermittently working on it, of course). Our itinerary was 17 days - - 2 in London, 7 in Italy (flew to Milan, drove to Venice - - where we spent, sadly, only 23 hours, then a house in Tuscany for 5 nights, and 1 night in San Remo), 4 in France (Riviera, Arles, cheap flight to Paris for two nights), flew across the channel again and finished with two nights in Windsor before flying back home. In general we traveled in a three car caravan (me in the lead, one of the 22 yr olds driving a middle car, my wife bringing up the rear). <BR> <BR>There were hardly any negative experiences, and they were all essentially issues of specific destinations and time allocation. Everyone wished for more time in Venice, and our day trip to Rome (saw the Pope, but it was such a long, tiring day) was almost too much, getting up at 4 in the morning to just barely make it there in time. <BR> <BR>I pat myself on the back for coming in right on budget - - $2850 per capita for EVERYTHING (except TRUE out of pocket costs - - gifts, cokes, ice creams), including transatlantic and the three intra-Europe flights. <BR> <BR>Unexpectedly good decisions included: time to play at the seaside on the Riviera for an afternoon, the house in Tuscany was a good idea in general, and especially for "cooking in" one night. Also very good to have laundry facilities readily available there (washing machine somewhat dinky, and no dryer, but "line dry" worked just fine). Planning a night at the theater (in the countryside outside Windsor) was very positive, and a "special dinner" our one night in Venice (complete with menus "In the honor of..." our graduates) - - from Antico Martini - - also very, very memorable (see www.anticomartini.com to learn more about this restaurant). <BR> <BR>Negatives? almost none. Surprisingly, they almost never used the pool at the house (too busy). Several hair dryers were purchased - - impossible to get teen age girls to do without them, I guess. <BR> <BR>I have since been back with 14 ten year olds for three weeks (an exchange program) to Normandy, and with two of my kids (the oldest now in college) with three other friends for 8 days for this year's spring break (ten days ago). <BR> <BR>Again, you may call me sentimental, but I really consider it our PRIVILEGE that these other families let me and my wife "borrow" their kids for these trips. I (we) loved being the "poppa and momma hen(s)" for this huge wonderful "family". We never experienced any real problems being a gaggle of 13 people. <BR> <BR>So, my bottom line advice to you is consider having your kids pick out one or two friends (each?) and expand your fun and your love. You may get as addicted to this as I am. <BR> <BR>Best wishes, <BR> <BR>Rex

gb

We're doing a similar trip from June 11 to July 3. We have two daughters, ages 11 and 15. We will be traveling from Milan, to Venice, then to Naples, Romes, Pisa, French Alps and finally, Paris. Two years ago, we took our first overseas trip (at age 48)with our kids. We had a great trip, and fond memories. But I have to admit, I always bring my own Walkman to drown out the "your on my side" of the car arguments. Other than, we learned our kids will visits museums for shorter periods than we desire. Not only because of a certain amount of boredom, but because of the huge crowds in the museums. Although we rented a car for our last trip (Great Britain), taking advantages of the different kinds of transportation as bus, boat, subway, train, taxi, was enlightening and energizing. Just the managment of the different kinds of transportation systems and schedules was educational. Our kids don't mind waiting in lines, if the end result is something interesting. The more active the activity, the better. The interesting the material, the more exciting the experience. (Can't learn much standing in lines) The more opportunity to talk to local residents, the more fun. (Isn't that true for all of us?)We had a great afternoon at the laudromat talking to a Welsh woman who thought we were rich people because we could take such a trip (little did she know of the sacrifice)One of the high points of our day was to go to grocery store, look at all the different kinds of food,and chose our dinner.One of the most ordinary of activities was one of the highlights of our trip. Don't be afraid to try anything. We took the kids to a Shakespeare play in Stratford, thinking they would be a bit bored. Intially, they thought they didn't enjoy it. But weeks later, they had decided it was one of there most interesting experiences. <BR>What would I do differently? I am getting a slightly bigger car on this trip with air conditioning despite the cost. Saving a few dollars isn't worth the whining. I will stand less in lines, even if it means missing seeing some fantastic art work. (I've lived this long without it). And I won't forget my Walkman.

Anne

Rex and GB <BR>This has been my first experience posting a question on this forum and your input, as well as the ones above, are completely enriching. Rex- you should be published. I've been thinking about my first trip to Europe when I was 13 yrs. old and what stood out so vividly. In France, the Bastille and Versailles, walks along the Siene. In Italy the Spanish steps and my mother swinging her pocket book at the men that would ogle me and my sisters. I was holding hands with one of them for a few blocks until my sisters turned around and put an end to that. Castle Gondolfo where the Pope has his summer residence. I don't know if I'm recalling this correctly, I think that was the name of this little town. There was a Peach festival and I had peach ice cream that I will never forget. <BR> <BR>The discovery of this forum and you wonderful people has me a bit addicted to the site. I was steaming an artichoke the other day while, purusing the lines here, and buned a pot. I had no idea that the planning of a trip could be so much fun and that there were people I didn't know who would share their own experiences so poetically and heart felt. <BR>Thank you all, <BR>Anne

xxx

Dear Anne, <BR> <BR>Haven't found your thread about movies/videos/films to watch - - to kindle the flame of love for traveling in Europe. <BR> <BR>But here's your very first post on this board. How sweet, the exchange that ensued.

Anne

Dear xxx: <BR> <BR>How sweet indeed, as all matters from the heart. There is a quote from the Little Prince, "It is with the heart that one see rightly, what is essential, is invisible to the eye." Ah... that we travel our lives and Europe from this perspective, how well off our children will be.

pam

What wonderful stories. Thank you all for writing. I've been thinking about the possibility of a friend of my son's accompanying us on our next trip. How much better for the kids to visit Europe this way than on some of the 'beerhall' tours my friends experienced. <BR> <BR>RE: the movie thread--look for "Betty Fordor's..." <BR> <BR>

olga

Very interesting and sweet stories... I agree completely - this is the best way to unite a family. We have always traveled with our daughters (now 17 and 12) and it is amazing how well they (and us all) get along during busy, stimulating and beautiful trips... We have been to England, France and Italy (not counting U.S. and Canada) - what wonderful memories; in my opinion, nothing enriches children's minds more than these trips. <BR>One question for Marilyn: we are about to leave for Spain for two weeks; in most of the hotels we will have to have two rooms (somehow, it never happened to us before). Is it safe to leave the girls in their own room? We were thinking to split and have one adult in each room, but that is not so much fun for them, I agree... If anybody knows whether that would be safe in Spain, please respond... <BR>Thanks