Please help finalize itinerary - 18 days in Italy.
Jan 14th, 2015, 10:19 AM
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Please help finalize itinerary - 18 days in Italy.
Hello everyone,
We have our flights booked : San Francisco > Venice, and Naples > San Francisco.
Our flight timings give us 17 nights, and almost 18 days there. I would appreciate your input about my high level plans before I start looking at hotels. We do have an apartment booked San Casciano Dei Bagni already.
We are traveling with two kids ages 9 and 5. Kids are happy travelers and have traveled quite bit. We enjoy history (though long history or museum tours don't work well for the kids), architecture, wandering around, people watching, farmer's markets, festivals and moderate hikes.
Day1 – Arriving Venice at 10am. Check-in, take a walk, relax. Stay in Venice.
Day2, 3 – Explore Venice. Stay in Venice.
Day 4 – Rent a car in the morning, and drive to Florence. Stay in Florence.
Day 5 – Explore Florence. Stay in Florence.
Day 6 – Drive to San Casciano dei Bagni later in the day. Stay in San Casciano dei Bagni.
Day 7-11 – Explore Tuscany and Umbria. Considering Siena, Volterra, Montepulciano, Chiusi, Pienza, Spoleto, Perugia. Would appreciate recommendation for daytrips itinerary from our homebase.
Day 12 – Return Car. Take train to Rome. Stay in Rome.
Day 13 – Explore Rome. Stay in Rome.
Day 14 – Explore Rome. Stay in Rome.
Day 15 – Explore Rome. Take evening bus/train to Sorrento. Stay in Sorrento.
Day 16, 17 – Day trips to Pompeii, Naples, Amalfi coast towns. Stay in Sorrento.
Day 18 – Sorrento. Take Taxi to Naples airport for 6pm flight.
I would appreciate input for overall plan, daytrips and hotel recommendations (ideally upto $250/night but flexible).
thank you,
Meg
We have our flights booked : San Francisco > Venice, and Naples > San Francisco.
Our flight timings give us 17 nights, and almost 18 days there. I would appreciate your input about my high level plans before I start looking at hotels. We do have an apartment booked San Casciano Dei Bagni already.
We are traveling with two kids ages 9 and 5. Kids are happy travelers and have traveled quite bit. We enjoy history (though long history or museum tours don't work well for the kids), architecture, wandering around, people watching, farmer's markets, festivals and moderate hikes.
Day1 – Arriving Venice at 10am. Check-in, take a walk, relax. Stay in Venice.
Day2, 3 – Explore Venice. Stay in Venice.
Day 4 – Rent a car in the morning, and drive to Florence. Stay in Florence.
Day 5 – Explore Florence. Stay in Florence.
Day 6 – Drive to San Casciano dei Bagni later in the day. Stay in San Casciano dei Bagni.
Day 7-11 – Explore Tuscany and Umbria. Considering Siena, Volterra, Montepulciano, Chiusi, Pienza, Spoleto, Perugia. Would appreciate recommendation for daytrips itinerary from our homebase.
Day 12 – Return Car. Take train to Rome. Stay in Rome.
Day 13 – Explore Rome. Stay in Rome.
Day 14 – Explore Rome. Stay in Rome.
Day 15 – Explore Rome. Take evening bus/train to Sorrento. Stay in Sorrento.
Day 16, 17 – Day trips to Pompeii, Naples, Amalfi coast towns. Stay in Sorrento.
Day 18 – Sorrento. Take Taxi to Naples airport for 6pm flight.
I would appreciate input for overall plan, daytrips and hotel recommendations (ideally upto $250/night but flexible).
thank you,
Meg
Jan 14th, 2015, 11:55 AM
#3
Hi Meg,
it looks like a great trip, but for my taste you have one place to many. I think that I would try to move the stay in San Casciano forward a day or two, drop Florence, and extend your time near Naples. You really aren't going to be able to see that much of Florence and checking in and out of hotels just for two nights isn't much fun with kids.
if you can't do that, for those two nights would stay somewhere on Lake Garda [Garda is as good a place as any] - you can be there in about 1 ½ hours and IMO it's a much more child-friendly place than Florence.
Then it's a 4 hour drive to your villa in Tuscany.
i would also think about leaving Rome first thing on Day 15 - it will take about 4 hours to get to Sorrento, and it would be nice not to be travelling in the heat of the day and to be there to settle in and explore before dinner.
it looks like a great trip, but for my taste you have one place to many. I think that I would try to move the stay in San Casciano forward a day or two, drop Florence, and extend your time near Naples. You really aren't going to be able to see that much of Florence and checking in and out of hotels just for two nights isn't much fun with kids.
if you can't do that, for those two nights would stay somewhere on Lake Garda [Garda is as good a place as any] - you can be there in about 1 ½ hours and IMO it's a much more child-friendly place than Florence.
Then it's a 4 hour drive to your villa in Tuscany.
i would also think about leaving Rome first thing on Day 15 - it will take about 4 hours to get to Sorrento, and it would be nice not to be travelling in the heat of the day and to be there to settle in and explore before dinner.
Jan 14th, 2015, 12:22 PM
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Why not just stay by the Naples Airport on the day before your flight? You'll miss little by missing a night in Sorrento - visit Naples during the day or a half- day - Pompeii Scavi station (for the ruins) has a left-luggage I believe in or near it - visit the ruins move onto Naples - saves a long 70-minute or so train trip back to Sorrento from Naples.
Jan 14th, 2015, 01:00 PM
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Assuming you keep Florence in the plan, you'll find it easier to take a train between Venice and Florence rather than to drive. Driving in the city is very challenging and expensive. Parking is near impossible and there are ZTLs where you can't drive which are monitored by camera... many a traveler has come home to find an expensive ticket waiting for them. You'll want a car for your villa stay, so pick the car up after Florence.
Jan 14th, 2015, 01:08 PM
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Thanks for your suggestions.
Annhig - I will rethink Florence night. Originally it was not in the plan but I added it to break the ~4hr drive from Venice to San Casciano. I will get more information about Lake Garda and see if that will work for us. I agree that it might be better leave Rome earlier in the day. Naples/Pompeii/Amalfi days look too busy.
PalenQ - Spending last night in Naples is definitely an option. I was trying to avoid one-night stay so figured it might be easier to stay in Sorrento the entire time. But thinking about it now, we can spend last day and half in Naples as well which will save us a day-trip and then drive again on the last day.
I have been looking at older threads for hotels/apartment suggestions, and Tuscany/Umbria and Amalfi day trip ideas. If you have any saved threads or trip reports (or new suggestions), please keep them coming.
thanks,
Meghna
Annhig - I will rethink Florence night. Originally it was not in the plan but I added it to break the ~4hr drive from Venice to San Casciano. I will get more information about Lake Garda and see if that will work for us. I agree that it might be better leave Rome earlier in the day. Naples/Pompeii/Amalfi days look too busy.
PalenQ - Spending last night in Naples is definitely an option. I was trying to avoid one-night stay so figured it might be easier to stay in Sorrento the entire time. But thinking about it now, we can spend last day and half in Naples as well which will save us a day-trip and then drive again on the last day.
I have been looking at older threads for hotels/apartment suggestions, and Tuscany/Umbria and Amalfi day trip ideas. If you have any saved threads or trip reports (or new suggestions), please keep them coming.
thanks,
Meghna
Jan 14th, 2015, 01:13 PM
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I noticed the same thing as msteacher regarding Venice to Florence driving. Unless you have a compelling reason, even the best case this trip by car is more expensive than using a train and can be extremely expensive if you get snagged by ZTL cameras by not studying the ZTL implication on your hotel into account.
Even if extending your Tuscany car rental to include Venice costs you nothing, the operating cost in moving a car from Venice to Florence for a car that can carry all of you would probably around €60 including fuel and toll. The train fare, if you bought advance fare would be €58 total, €19x2 for adult and €10x2 for children. For car you also need to add 2 nights parking, at least €20 per night unless you found a hotel with free parking. And if you get snagged by ZTL cameras, you get hit at least €110 from the city of Florence and probably about €30 from your rental company per incident. This fine is cumulative. If you get snagged by one ZTL camera and again 5 minutes later, you have accumulated at least €110+€30 twice, or €280 or more for your five minutes of fun driving in Florence.
Even if extending your Tuscany car rental to include Venice costs you nothing, the operating cost in moving a car from Venice to Florence for a car that can carry all of you would probably around €60 including fuel and toll. The train fare, if you bought advance fare would be €58 total, €19x2 for adult and €10x2 for children. For car you also need to add 2 nights parking, at least €20 per night unless you found a hotel with free parking. And if you get snagged by ZTL cameras, you get hit at least €110 from the city of Florence and probably about €30 from your rental company per incident. This fine is cumulative. If you get snagged by one ZTL camera and again 5 minutes later, you have accumulated at least €110+€30 twice, or €280 or more for your five minutes of fun driving in Florence.
Jan 14th, 2015, 02:27 PM
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Were it me traveling with kids out of Venice, I would take the train to Chiusi or Orvieto, rent the car there and drive to San Casciano. The drive from Venice to Florence means crossing the mountains with few sights of interest but lots of winding roads for back seat passengers. If your kids are not Renaissance art mavens or museum lovers, Florence can wait until they are older I think. So I suggest adding the time to Venice, and if you are a bit bored (I don't think you will be), take a day trip to Verona or go out on the lagoon to the islands, including a glass factory tour for your kids. Yes, it's commercialized but glass making really was a critical craft for historic Venice, so it has some educational value too.
Your location in San Casciano dei Bagni is quite far south, and I would suggest that you not day trip any further north than Siena. Most roads in Tuscany are tough on back seat passengers because they are so twisty, so you want to keep them short. Of particular interest in that area might be the hot springs (ask your landlord for advice about the best ones nearby), a visit to Chiusi for its underground tours and its the Etruscan museum in Chiusi (its small with English language labels). Orvieto is a natural day trip, and Pitigliano and other cave-type towns around there would be great (one hour away). If you want a lake, I think Lago Bolsena is a bit nicer than Lago Trasimeno. Perugia is a straight shot drive and is impressive, but it is a real pain to get into the city and park. You need to be motivated and I'd only do it if the kids were clamoring for an urban experience for a change of pace ahead of Rome.
Is your flight out of Naples not until 6pm? Or is that a typo and you mean 6am?
If you are leaving late in the day, you can come in from Sorrento, store your luggage in the train station, and go sightseeing in Naples until about 3pm. When you pick up your luggage at the station you can get on a bus to the airport right there, or take a taxi for 35e or so. If your flight is at 6am, you can stay either in Naples itself or in Pompei and get a taxi to the airport, which doesn't really open until 5am, so don't go too early.
Your location in San Casciano dei Bagni is quite far south, and I would suggest that you not day trip any further north than Siena. Most roads in Tuscany are tough on back seat passengers because they are so twisty, so you want to keep them short. Of particular interest in that area might be the hot springs (ask your landlord for advice about the best ones nearby), a visit to Chiusi for its underground tours and its the Etruscan museum in Chiusi (its small with English language labels). Orvieto is a natural day trip, and Pitigliano and other cave-type towns around there would be great (one hour away). If you want a lake, I think Lago Bolsena is a bit nicer than Lago Trasimeno. Perugia is a straight shot drive and is impressive, but it is a real pain to get into the city and park. You need to be motivated and I'd only do it if the kids were clamoring for an urban experience for a change of pace ahead of Rome.
Is your flight out of Naples not until 6pm? Or is that a typo and you mean 6am?
If you are leaving late in the day, you can come in from Sorrento, store your luggage in the train station, and go sightseeing in Naples until about 3pm. When you pick up your luggage at the station you can get on a bus to the airport right there, or take a taxi for 35e or so. If your flight is at 6am, you can stay either in Naples itself or in Pompei and get a taxi to the airport, which doesn't really open until 5am, so don't go too early.
Jan 14th, 2015, 02:57 PM
#9
>>>Day 7-11 – Explore Tuscany and Umbria. Considering Siena, Volterra, Montepulciano, Chiusi, Pienza, Spoleto, Perugia. Would appreciate recommendation for daytrips itinerary from our homebase.<<<
Your homebase is not a good location for day trips to many of the places you listed. You might drop the nights in Florence and pick a base that is more central to the Tuscany towns you listed (including Florence).
>>>Day 18 – Sorrento. Take Taxi to Naples airport for 6pm flight.<<<
You must have an overnight somewhere in Europe?
Your homebase is not a good location for day trips to many of the places you listed. You might drop the nights in Florence and pick a base that is more central to the Tuscany towns you listed (including Florence).
>>>Day 18 – Sorrento. Take Taxi to Naples airport for 6pm flight.<<<
You must have an overnight somewhere in Europe?
Jan 15th, 2015, 11:14 AM
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Good advice about when and where to rent car from, and definitely good to learn about ZTL cameras now! We will do car pick-up and drop-off at Orvieto or Chiusi.
Given that our location in San Casciano dei Basgni is little off for driving north - I am wondering if we should do a one-night stop somewhere there after Venice. Are there any town that are easy to get to by train? Alternatively, I can look into shortening our stay in San Casciano by couple of days.
Flight from Naples is in the evening (~6:30pm) as we are stopping somewhere for a day.
thanks,
meg
Given that our location in San Casciano dei Basgni is little off for driving north - I am wondering if we should do a one-night stop somewhere there after Venice. Are there any town that are easy to get to by train? Alternatively, I can look into shortening our stay in San Casciano by couple of days.
Flight from Naples is in the evening (~6:30pm) as we are stopping somewhere for a day.
thanks,
meg
Jan 15th, 2015, 12:59 PM
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If your travel out of Venice is not a Saturday or Sunday, then maybe you should spend the night in Siena, where you could rent a car the next day and continue on to San Casciano dei Bagni. Going to Siena would require a switch at the Florence train station to either another train or bus, as you prefer.
If your travel day is a weekend day, you should probably rent the car in Venice and maybe drive to an agriturismo or village in the Chianti. The next day, see Siena on your way to San Casciano dei Bagni.
Whether you should shorten your stay really depends, I think, on how much you want the Tuscan stay to be about (a) living close to the land, experiencing a different way of life, plus understanding a bit of ancient Etruscan history (it is wonderful) or (b) seeing some important Italian art cities and towns. If it is (b), you might want spend some time a bit further north to put a dent in the list of Famous Attractions. But if it is (a), you can get a beautiful mix of Italian rural life and Italian history right in the neighborhood of San Casciano dei Bagni. With kids, it might be easier to show them just one amazing cathedral (Orvieto) and just one weird tufa town (Pitigliano) and just one mysterious Etruscan tomb (Chiusi) and otherwise enjoy hanging out with the farmers and the animals and kicking ball in the piazza, shopping in the markets. Italian kids have a fun life in Tuscany, much different from other places in the world, and it can be fun to join in even if you miss seeing more art.
If your travel day is a weekend day, you should probably rent the car in Venice and maybe drive to an agriturismo or village in the Chianti. The next day, see Siena on your way to San Casciano dei Bagni.
Whether you should shorten your stay really depends, I think, on how much you want the Tuscan stay to be about (a) living close to the land, experiencing a different way of life, plus understanding a bit of ancient Etruscan history (it is wonderful) or (b) seeing some important Italian art cities and towns. If it is (b), you might want spend some time a bit further north to put a dent in the list of Famous Attractions. But if it is (a), you can get a beautiful mix of Italian rural life and Italian history right in the neighborhood of San Casciano dei Bagni. With kids, it might be easier to show them just one amazing cathedral (Orvieto) and just one weird tufa town (Pitigliano) and just one mysterious Etruscan tomb (Chiusi) and otherwise enjoy hanging out with the farmers and the animals and kicking ball in the piazza, shopping in the markets. Italian kids have a fun life in Tuscany, much different from other places in the world, and it can be fun to join in even if you miss seeing more art.
Jan 18th, 2015, 11:44 PM
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Sandralist - thank you so much! Wonderful information and great perspective. Going at slower pace and soaking into tuscany's rural charm is what we will be doing in this trip. Florence and museums can wait a few more years until kids are older.
We are looking at trains and car rentals...automatic cars are hard to find!
We are looking at trains and car rentals...automatic cars are hard to find!
Jan 19th, 2015, 12:51 AM
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I must admit that this trip sounds very rushed to me -- and I travel solo and at a HARD pace! That said, whether it will work for YOU and YOUR family really depends on what you want to see and experience. My recommendation: Get some good guidebooks (or spend some time with a few in your local library), identify the things you most want to see in each location, note their opening/closing times, and mark them on a calendar. Then pencil in your transportation, add some time on either side (for getting to/from the train/bus station or whatever, checking in/out, packing/unpacking, getting oriented, etc.). Then see how things fit together. And do remember that all the time you spend in transit is time that you are NOT spending seeing the things that you are, presumably, traveling a great distance to see.
It's a wonderful part of the world -- enjoy!
It's a wonderful part of the world -- enjoy!
Jan 19th, 2015, 11:59 AM
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Day 4 – Rent a car in the morning, and drive to Florence. Stay in Florence.
Day 5 – Explore Florence. Stay in Florence.>
Maybe someone said above but I'd take the train to Florence - can get some discounts that may all in all be cheaper than driving (high petro prices and predatory autostrada tolls and if you don't take autostrada (freeways) you'll spend all day getting to Florence, which is a real tough place for drivers - large areas off-limits to private vehicles and many hotels sans parking - you may pay $20-30 a day just to park.
And you will be in Florence the whole next day - rent a car when ready to leave - sve two days on a car rental. (Florence should at least be a minimum of two full days IMO to scratch the tip of the proverbial iceberg too!).
Day 5 – Explore Florence. Stay in Florence.>
Maybe someone said above but I'd take the train to Florence - can get some discounts that may all in all be cheaper than driving (high petro prices and predatory autostrada tolls and if you don't take autostrada (freeways) you'll spend all day getting to Florence, which is a real tough place for drivers - large areas off-limits to private vehicles and many hotels sans parking - you may pay $20-30 a day just to park.
And you will be in Florence the whole next day - rent a car when ready to leave - sve two days on a car rental. (Florence should at least be a minimum of two full days IMO to scratch the tip of the proverbial iceberg too!).
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