llolsen

I am planning to spend 21 days in Europe next May. I have never been to Europe, so any recommendations of places, sites, restaurants to visit would be much appreciated. We want to stay in Western Europe, potentially visiting Britain, Italy, Spain, Greece, and France.
Thanks for any input.

janis

Whoa - slow down a little. Three weeks is not really enough time to visit Britain, Italy, Spain, Greece, and France.

Remember, you will need almost a full travel day to get to each of those countries. Plus the first couple of days will be a jet lagged fog and the last day will be spent packing and traveling home. So after inter-country travel you will only have about 14 actual full sightseeing days.

So, What type of things are you interested in seeing, what sort of budget, do you want to drive or rely on public transportation, etc? Give us some of this basic info and folks can then give you useful advice.

StCirq

Well, I suppose you could manage this with some of the new cheap airlines that fly from country to country in Europe, but at first glance, you itinerary seems rather impossible given you three-week period.

I suppose you could fly into England and spend 3 days or so, then fly to Spain for a couple of days, then race through France to Italy, then take a boat (?) or fly to Greece, but frankly, it seems WAY to spread out and hectic.
I'd omit Britain for starters. and I'd think about leaving out Greece, too. Or else omitting Spain and just doing a small corner of France (the Riviera, essentially) plus Italy and Greece.
Too much for 21 days unless you want it all to be a blur, which of course some people do.

PalenqueBob

A most helpful free guide is available from Budget Europe Travel Service, their European Planning & Rail Guide - a superb trip planning tool even if not going by rail and it's free (800-441-9413), especially good for itinerary planning. I've been to Europe literally hundreds of times and always find this publication handy.

llolsen

We will rely on public transportation and I would suspect that our budget would be around $5,000 for two over the three weeks. We enjoy the theater, art and general outdoors. We like to walk and see the cities, we don't have to be entertained with tourist events or items.

crazymina

I visited all those countries (and I few more) but it took me 4 months to do it.

As the above posters mentioned skip Greece unless you are flying. Taking a ferry is an overnight ordeal. To give you an idea, I left Sorrento on a Wednesday morning. I did not get to Santorini until Friday morning. 2 days and two nights of exhausting travel.

With your itinerary, the only way you could do it is fly. Britain and France are easily doable together. Spain is an overnight train from France, and Italy an overnight train from Spain.

I'm all for whirlwind travel, but this one is tough, unless again, you fly. Don't let some of those maps fool you...there are some pretty hefty distance between some of these countries for land travel!

earl30

too funny. OK, run by the Tower bridge, head to Italy. see the leaning tower and take a gondola in Venice. Then hit spain for a bull fight. Fly to Greece and dance at a nightclub, then hurry back to France and see the Eyefull tower. You can just about make that in 21 days.

ira

Hi ll,

By this time you probably have the idea that you ought to reduce the number of places you will visit.

Our last trip, we did 3 weeks in Italy. See my trip report http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34451044

Other suggestions are London (and surroundings) and Paris; The British Isles; Paris and France. I'm sure others will alternatives.

Patrick

Add me to the list that thinks you're trying to do too much in 21 days. However, if you're determined to see this many different cultures, it can be done -- of course you know you won't gain a full appreciation for any of these countries, but just enough to whet your appetite and make you want to return (or not) to any of them.

You can get 2 Eurail Saver Passes in First Class for 15 days for $498 each which will take care of virtually all your transportation, so that's a start.
Fly into London and spend three days, activate your railpasses and buy discounted Eurostar tickets to Paris (using this as the first day of your pass). Spend three nights in Paris.
Take the train to Barcelona for a touch of Spain and spend two nights.
Take the train across the Riviera and spend a night in Nice. From there go to Rome for three nights. Early morning train to Florence and spend one night there. Then on to Venice for three nights. Head down the coast of Italy and take a ferry to Patras (you can do this on your Eurail Pass). Train to Athens for three nights. And somewhere in there, fly to Santornini from Athens for two nights. Fly home from Athens.

Most people will say this type of itinerary will leave you exhausted -- I'm not so sure about that, but you will have to love train travel because you'll be spending an incredible amount of time on them. But if you enjoy seeing the countryside whizzing by (and frankly, I sort of do) then it is a way to see a lot. There is also the possibility of some night trains to not lose precious days in transport. But frankly that's when I'd get exhausted as I'd never really feel relaxed sleeping on a train, and would feel I was missing seeing the countryside between places. You can wear yourself ragged in cities and then totally relax for a day riding a train to the next destination.

Now to make this better or more thorough, you might try to either eliminate Spain or Greece (Greece really being the most time consuming of all).

By the way, the reason I say to buy a 15 day and not a 21 day pass is because you can easily spend three days at each end of the trip without doing any train travel.

kaudrey

Well, I agree it's too many countries, but I have to disagree with Janis' assessment.

Janis - how do you get from 21 days to 14 days? At the least, it's 19 days if the 21 days includes the travel days. Further, maybe you get jet-lagged for days, but I certainly don't. I always see things and stay up until a decent hour the first day I am in Europe, and am raring to go on Day 2. Why do you discount the first days of the vacation?

No offense, but you often reply this way on these boards, and I just think you should consider that not everyone may be like you.

Now, llolsen, having said that, for 21 days, I would probably pick England, France and maybe Spain, or even just do more indepth in England and France.

Karen

SAnParis

It is true that your that your destinations will need to be pared back a bit. Some suggestions - Britain, France & Benelux. France would be especially good that time of year & would be my recommendation. Or, Italy, Austria, Switzerland. Greece I would save for a seperate trip. Or, France & Spain. Once you narrow it down, let us know & we can be more specific.

bobthenavigator

Surely you jest !
In 21 days I would pick a max of 7 destinations in 3 contigious countries with a max of 4 hours between destinations. In May, I would pick Italy, France, and Switzerland or Germany and buy the rail pass that covers 3 countries. Drop Greece, Spain, and England.

bettyk

Well, Rick Steves does a 21-day Europe guided tour that covers the following:

Amsterdam, the Rhineland, Rothenburg, Neuschwanstein, Venice, Florence, Rome,Cinque Terre, Lauterbrunnen, Beaune, and finally Paris.

Most of the stops are for 2 nights. Obviously, they are in a tour bus and some days they will be driving all day, but it can be done.

earl30

I think some of you well traveled people are missing the point. As a college kid I did 8 countries in one month and loved every minute of it.
Sure it can be done. Those of you who go every year and study a country in depth can be proud of that. But if this person is thinking of a one time trip of a lifetime, there's nothing wrong with it. I'd be happy to follow Patrick's itinerary and I'd come home with a lot of great memories. How old are you by the way? College or older?

janis

kaudrey: I meant that they would only have about 14 full days free for sightseeing after they deduct all the travel time.

The day they go from Greece to Italy would not leave much time for seeing anything. Same for Spain to France, etc. They want to see five far flung countries plus the travel to and from Europe - that deducts at least 7 days from seeing much.

I thought I made it clear in my message - 21 days does not mean 21 days after working out all the travel logistics. If they were to limit themselves to 1 or 2 countries than they would in fact have about 18 full sightseeing days.

I was just trying to get them to be realistic . . . . . .

WillTravel

If you are insistent on a 7-country trip, going on an organized tour is a good idea.

I've always thought that Rick Steves' rushed itineraries are at odds with the "Europe through the back door" philosophy, but he obviously has many satisfied customers.

Patrick

I wonder if I'm the only one who appreciates what you see from a train? I don't discount travel days by train from days that you "see" or "experience" Europe. Sure, not the same as wandering within a town or city, but you do see a lot. And I do find those days or half days a great day to relax from exhausting yourself after a couple of exhausting days in Paris or Rome.

Don't get me wrong. I'd never travel like this myself, but if as Earl says it's a once in a lifetime thing, then why not?

MiteMsispe

I like to stay in one locale at least 2 days, but preferably 5-7 days. Staying longer lengths of time allows one to relax and enjoy the local culture. 5-7 days will also enable you to rent an apartment and really feel like you're local. I like the option of flying intraEurope on one of the new low cost airlines and am also a fan of rental cars and local public transportation in cities. The problem is that we newby travelers want to see too much at once, but this lessens the pleasure of travel. I believe that one should not become exhausted on vacation. Fodor's, Michelin, Frommers,Eurocheapo,TripAdvisor, Letsgo,Igougo, etc. are web sites that can help you with your travel plans, especially if you are budget minded like myself. Ryan air is a good low cost airline and rail travel also offers many attractive alternatives. Enjoy.

Winnepeg

It can certainly be done. Problem is that you really won't get to enjoy much of each country, let alone really relax and soak things up. Besides 21 days and laundry could be a problem if you don't stay in a place to long.

I've been to Europe 30 or so times in my 42 years of life. I've done 3 and 4 week trips to Europe. I remember one that I did in 1986. It went something like this.

People's Express (Anyone remember that airline) from Newark NJ to London.

London for 2 full days.

Left London for Paris.

Saw the highlights of Paris. Stayed one night in Paris. Slept along with other 24 year olds in the train station.

Took the first train the next morning from Paris to Montreaux Switzerland.

Settled into Montreaux for 2 nights.

Left Montreuax on the Golden pass train for Lucern. Did Lucern for 2 nights.

From Lucerne we went down to Lake Como on the Italian Border. Stayed along Lake Como for three nights. Drove into Italy. Forget where we went, but we got a lot of Italian culture. Great pizza.

From Lake Como we drove to Liechtenstein and visited with some family. Stayed in Liechtenstein for 1 night.

Left Liechetenstein, got a train, and headed towards Germany. Set up base in Berchtesgaden for 2 or 3 nights. We did the highlights of Berchetesgaden and went into Salzburg Austria for a day trip.

Left Berchetesgaden to go to Munich. Did Munich for 2 nights. Did all the fun things in Munich and then we left to stay with friends along the Rhine. Stayed in Boppard for 2 nights.

Left Boppard for Amsterdam. Did all the fun things in Amsterdam. Stayed in Amsterdam for 2 nights. Got from Amsterdam over to London and flew home 20 or so days later.

Great trip. Did some driving, especially into Liectenstein, but the majority of my trip was on night trains, or day trains when the scenery warranted it.

If you are up for a whirtwind trip, then just do it. You can always goback another time once you have seen a bit of Europe.

ira

Once, when I was much younger, I did a 3-week multination tour sleeping on trains and spending 1-2 days in each place.

By the last week, I was so worn out that people thought I was drunk or stoned.

I don't remember much from that trip.