21 days in Europe - 1st time visit
 

Hi everyone,

We (family of 4 with 2 kids: 14 and 11) are just starting to think about a European vacation for June 2006. This will be our first trip to Europe!

What do you think about this itinerary?

4 nights - Paris
3 nights - Barcelona
4 nights - Rome
3 nights - Florence
3 nights - Venice
2 nights - Salzburg
2 nights - Luzern

If this is too ambitious, what should we cut out? Also, if we needed to trim it to 18 days what should we cut out?

Is this the best order? How soon do I need to start booking things? What are the best travel resources (books, etc.) I should pick up?

I'm sure we'll have additional questions as the planning moves along, but wanted to start with something doable!

Thanks so much!

Carole

Welcome to the Europe forum.

I would recommend that you <i>consider</i> cutting out Barcelona, even if you do nto shorten (and by the way, I would probably also recommend that you shorten to 18).

If you cut down to 18, then cut out Salzburg and Luzern also.

If you cut out Barcelona (withor without the shortening), then I would recommend inserting 1-3 nights (not necessarily consecutive) in smaller and/or less known towns and/or rural areas.

Others will argue that those might not appeal to kids as much. How do you know if you never visit any? Going to Europe and never seeing any of its small towns or rural areas is missing half of what the continent has to offer.

With or without the cuts, take a look at www.whichbudget.com for the most cost-effective means of getting TO Italy (and/or getting TO Barcelona).

Which of your kids is working on how much (more?) French can they learn? and which one working on Italian?

Best wishes,

Rex

There are lots of people that do visits like that but there ARE some issues to consider. How are you getting from one city to the other? You start in Paris and then go south to Barcelona, and work your way back north again. Where are you flying in and out of? You need to get some maps to get yourself oriented as to the distance. Then you can see for yourself what would be the better city to cut out of you have to shorten to 18 days but also you have to allow for your flights to and from the US. I'm assuming US? Depending on what you do, I would leave out Barcelona, Salzburg, or Luzern. You need to do a little research on your own, get the maps and see how these cities all relate to one another and then have some more specific questions. In the meantime, I'm sure you will get some other responses.

Yes, I was thinking I might hear 18 days would be preferable. That means we'll have to cut out Barcelona for sure.

We could fly (from Calif.) to Paris, fly to Rome, and then go by train the rest of the route.

So... should we cut out BOTH Salzburg and Luzern as well, and spend the 18 days in just 2 countries?

I was planning on booking everything separately myself... but since this is our 1st time, should I use a Travel Agent? Anyone have any recommendations?

Thanks!

I would narrow my area of travel, if you are going to do Italy, then stick w/Italy since we appear to be Italy heavy here. Likewise, if you have a hankering for Paris, throw in Amsterdam &amp; perhaps some time in Belgium &amp; the beach. The fact that it is all major cities may be something else you want to reconsider. Certainly eliminate Barcelona &amp; Luzern.

I would do things radically differently, as I'm a firm believer in wasting as little time actually traveling between places as possible. Not knowing your family obviously, but w/that much packing/unpacking/navigating/negotiating trains, etc. we would be ready to kill each other.

If I had 15 to 21 days to spend in Europe w/my kids, I would pick 3, maybe 4 places, including several w/water so they could swim (to make it feel like a vacation to them, unless you have unusual children who adore continual cultural experiences). So maybe 4 nights Paris, 5 nights French or Italian Riviera (assuming you like gorgeous beaches) 5 nights Barcelona or Florence. (From Florence you could day trip to Tuscan towns if you're really feeling like you need to see more.)

I understand the temptation to try and get in as much as possible, but I personally think it ends up being a huge mistake. You and your family will really remember the times when you were relaxed and comfortable and in a beautiful place.

Best of luck and have a great time!

Personally, that's way too many big cities for me. I also think it might get a litle boring for the children - too much concrete. I would try to throw in some beach time, castles (ruins &amp; elegant palaces), hiking in the mountains, small medieval villages, drives through the countryside, smaller cities where the kids could head out on their own but probably can't get lost, etc.

For first timers (both you and the kids), perhaps Rome, Pompii, Amalfi coast (beach time) - all the above could be done by train and/or bus. Then rent a car &amp; do Tuscany (countryside &amp; small villages), Siena (smallish city), train to Venice, Italian Lake district (hikes in mountains) or Paris.

I would proportion it this way:
1. Rome 4 nights
2. See Pompii on way to Amalfi coast - 4 nights, with an overnight in Capri
3. Southern Tuscany - 3 nights
4. San Gimignano &amp; area around there - 1 night
5. Siena 1 night
6. train to Venice - 3 nights
7. Train to Lake district - 3 nights (boat trips) or fly to Paris for 5 nights, with trip to Versailles.

Stu Dudley

Hi ca,

&gt;..we'll have to cut out Barcelona for sure.

Good idea.

Now drop Salzburg and Luzern

You have 18 days to split between France and Italy.

Rome Florence and Venice make a very nice 2 weeks. You can add a few days driving through Tuscany.

As much as I love Paris, I suggest that you save France for another visit.

See Helpful Information: Italy 2
http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34568596

FYI
Flying into Paris and on to Rome is not ver convenient. You get better connections flying Paris to Venice and then home from Rome. See www.myair.com

You will want to make hotel reservations starting in December. Most hotels will want you to wait until after Jan 1.

((I))

I've yet to get to Europe (54 days to go - WOOHOO!), but since this has yet to get asked, I'll ask it.

Is there any particular reason why you chose the places you originally did? History? Curiosity? Culture? It would be a shame to cut out something if you really had your heart set on going there, IMO.

Hmmm... I say plan it yourself as long as you find that fun and interesting, and have the time to do it. I have never used a travel agent because I like the 'control' of dealing directly with airlines and hotels and making my own arrangements. I usually don't move around as much as you are proposing, so wait and book train tickets to the next place once I am in a city.

Not knowing which of the cities have the most interest to you, I don't know which to suggest you skip... but I believe 7 cities/5 countries is too much whether it is 18 or 21 days. You spend loads of time checking in and out of hotels, on trains, in taxis, at airports, for my taste. I would cut at least 2-3 cities but keep the 21 days.

Look into &quot;open jaw&quot; air tickets so you fly into Paris and leave from Rome (for instance) to avoid backtracking time and cost.

The guidebooks series that are best (most appropriate) depend on your budget and interests. I usually start with a selection from the public library.

Personally I'd keep Barcelona because it's big on my own upcoming trip list!! I'd might even say skip Rome and Florence since they're the most out of the way from the others.

Before you get into the nitty gritty of planning, I suggest tacking a big map of Europe on the living room wall. And getting coffee table style travel books with lots of photos. See what looks most exciting to all of you &amp; get the kids involved (if they aren't already).

Travel sources: Lonely Planet books are great for independent travelers - Fodors great for general info and mid to upscale hotels. One resource that is free is the European Planning &amp; Rail Guide, with pages of great info for the novel traveler, if going by rail or not (BETS: 800-441-2387; they will also answer any rail railpass-related question) and Rick Steves has a railpass-oriented guide and his own guides which are popular with many (www.ricksteves.com) RailEurope has a good brochure telling all about trains: 800-4EURAIL. If going by train you should consider the Eurail Select Pass where you select your own countries - and do the Saver Pass, two or more names on one page get a discount. Your 11 yr old pays 50% off on Eurail (under 12 is the rule). I wouldn't drive if just going to large cities like you are - driving hard, parking expensive, many hotels don't have any, much of inner cities are off limits to cars these days. the national tourist offices in US have lots of great free stuff - fun to look at enticing pictures: France Gov't Tourist Office: 212-838-7800 www.franceguide.com;
Spanish Nt'l Tourist Office: 212-265-8822 www.okspain.org; Italian Gov't Tourist Office: 212-245-5618 www.italiantourism.com; Austrian nt'l tourist office: 212-944-6880 www.austira-tourism.com; Switzerland Tourism - 877-794-8037 or 212-757-5944 www.myswitzerland.com
Personally with two kids that age i'd go to the Grindelwald, Switzerland area and the high Alps - an Alpine wonderland with cog trains, lots of gondolas, hikes, waterfalls, glaciers - a Valhalla.

Cawhite,

This is one of the most fun parts of the trip, the dreaming stage. I would suggest that you go to a travel agent and get the books for big bus tours of Europe and read their iteneraries (sp) to see what really appeals to your family.

I have noticed that a lot of posters here list London, Paris, Rome or London, Paris, Venice as their top three. Southern Germany with all the Ludwig castles is another big hit for first timers.

Another thing to consider is flying between cities. You don't see as much scenery but you do get there quicker. Look at Ryanair.com and some of the other low cost airlines websites. When you fly, you will find you no longer have to think in straight lines.

After that rent 'National Lampoon's European Vacation' and have fun planning.

Well, my kids were 14 and 11 once and they would have hated this itinerary. About three days in a big European city (except Paris and London, which they love) is all they could stomach. Three weeks is an incredibly long time to spend in major European metropolises with no break for some scenery and quiet.

I think you need to pare it down to about 3-4 big cities and then fill in with some meanderings around more rural areas. Let the kids enjoy castles and canoeing, small town festivals, etc.

Be sure to get the kids' input, too. Give them ownership of parts of the trip, or they'll feel you're just dragging them around. Put each one in charge of a couple of cities or areas, get some guidebooks from the library, and let them come up with some itinerary ideas.

And definitely get a good, detailed map of Europe so you can familiarize yourself with what's where and how much distance is between places. We used to tack a huge Europe map on the wall and let the kids put colored pins in it, and then we'd develop our itnerary from there.

Happy planning!

A couple of cou

Wow... thanks for all the info... so quickly too!

Yes, I guess that itinerary is too much city and too aggressive. We do want to see beaches, small towns, countryside, festivals, etc. And we definitely what we want to do things the kids will enjoy.

Any other information on good travel resources would be greatly appreciated!

I think you got great advice from knowledgeable experts.

I’ll just put in my two bits. My kids enjoyed the Cinque Terre as a break from the big cities.

I agree with suze, the library is a great resource.

There is another option - Mediterranean Cruise, for example:
Departure Port: Barcelona, Spain (or you can find one from Italy)
Ports of Call: Barcelona, Spain; Villefranche (Nice), France; Livorno (Florence/Pisa), Italy; Naples, Italy; Venice, Italy; Dubrovnik, Croatia; Corfu, Greece; Civitavecchia (Rome), Italy; Barcelona, Spain

Since you have 21 days, you can arrive to Barcelona (or Madrid) a week prior the cruise, travel around a bit and then take a cruise, children will enjoy it.

We spent 16 wonderful days in Spain with our two sons (12 and 9), they just loved Barcelona and Montserrat and have great memories from the trip.

Have fun and if you have time plan yourself.

In the excitement of planning a first trip people often forget or don't realize how much time, expense, effort it takes to change cities/countries.

Each change involves at minimum: packing; check out of hotel; walk, taxi, metro, or bus to the train station or the airport; wait for the flight/train; make the trip (let's say 4 hours on a train); walk, bus, taxi, metro to next hotel; hopefully your room is ready for check in by this time of the day.

Repeat *7* times on your initial proposed itinerary. This does not make for the most pleasant day. Especially when you could be taking a boat ride, hanging out in a park, hiking in the mountains, flying a kite, hearing a local band concert... instead ;-)

If you are in France, then you might consider Normandy (Rouen, west almost to Cherbourg). In June the weather should be nice. Beaches are Deauville/Troville in addition to the invasion beaches. Honfluer, Rouen, Beyaux and other nice towns. One night we stayed in 600+ plus year old chateaux near Caen for $130 per night.

Thanks everyone! What a wealth of information!! I guess the biggest thing now is to figure out places the KIDS will like.... hmmmm.... please keep those suggestions coming.

Suze... I know how the itinerary stack-up can happen. I did that to my family in Hawaii last summer: 4 islands in 15 days because the kids had not been there before and I wanted them to see everything. I thought it was great, but my DH was ready to shoot me. Funny, an itinerary like that didn't bother him before having kids. :)

Travfirst - I will check on the cruise option. The kids and I went on a cruise in April (W. Caribbean) and they LOVED it. DH wasn't didn't like the cruise idea, however, so he didn't come! Do you think we'll have sufficient time in port to see what Europe has to offer on a cruise?

Keep the ideas rolling!!

Thanks a bunch....