21 Days for France-Switzerland-Italy in January
 

Hi All,

I am a newbie on this forum and from South Africa.

I am planning a trip to Europe in the winter (8-29 January) of 2015 for 21 days to visit some places of interest and do some skiing in France. We (wife & I - both in early 30's) know it will be cold this time of the year, but we wanted this trip to be something different (I have never experienced real snow) and we have chosen this time due to lower number of tourists, cheaper flights & accommodation tariffs (or at least that is what we read up on). We will make sure to dress appropriately for these conditions.

The idea is to travel to France first and spend some time in Paris to see the Eiffel Tower, Louvre and some other sites. We have allowed ourselves 3 days in the city. Then we want to head to the Porte du Soleil area (Morzine - Les Gets) to do some skiing (6 days). After the skiing, we want to go to Switzerland (4 days) to experience the Jungfrau, Matterhorn & take the Bernina/Glacier express to Tirano. Entering Italy (5-6 days), we want to head to Rome and also visit Naples.

We will depart from OR Thambo International airport in South Africa to Charles de Gaulle in Paris and fly out from Rome back home.

Here are a few questions to start off with:

1. I read somewhere that some attractions are not open during this time of year in Paris,
is this true? We wanted to visit the tower, a museum or two and walk through the city.

2. What area in the Prote du Soleil is the best for beginner skiers?

3. Visiting Switzerland in this time, can you still visit attractions like the Jungfraujoch,
Matterhorn or is there a possibility of trains not operating due to heavy snowfalls?

Hope to hear from you soon! :)

You need to remove your arrival and departure days from your plan. Then remove each day that you move from one place to another. Those are not days spent in a place, they are travel days. It looks like you have removed arrival/departure but not the rest.

To spend 3 days in Paris you must stay 4 nights. The same applies to anywhere else. For 6 days skiing, 7 nights. For 4 days in Switzerland, 5 nights. etc. Each time you move you lose most of a day to travel.

The lower prices will apply to places that are not winter destinations. Obviously, the places you wish to visit in Switzerland will be at high season prices as they are all snow destinations.

You can go up on a ski lift as close to the Matterhorn in winter as in summer. The difference is what you will need to wear and that you won't be doing any hiking.

I would not consider 4 days (even 4 full days) enough time to see much of Switzerland. Certainly not both the Bernese Oberland area (Jungfraujoch)as well as Zermatt (Matterhorn)in any meaningful way.

Rome and Naples will be cheaper to the extent that they are ever cheaper. In other words, not really.

I would suggest you keep it simple and spend more time in places rather than moving. One week Paris, one week skiiing, one week Rome. Time's up.

If you want to ski - you could go to Switzerland and go skiing there rather than Porte du Soleil (which I don't know) and then this would give you more time to be in Paris. If you go to the Berner Oberland in January, the rates won't be as high as February which is the real ski season.

Thank you so much for the replies! I think the main area we are most interested in seeing is Switzerland, i will then need to reconsider my days in each country, including travel days.

- I really don't want to drop Switzerland from my plan. Wouldn't
skiing be more expensive in Switzerland than in France?

- What is the best way to travel from the Northern French Alps
(Avoriaz/Morzine) to Interlanken?

If you stay in the Swiss part of Portes du Soleil (Champery, Champoussin, Les Crosets), transport to both, Paris and Interlaken, would be somewhat easier (via Monthey). The stations in the French part (Les Gets, Avoriaz, Morzine, etc.) are best reached by bus from Geneva, from Paris as well as from Interlaken.

The actual timetables look like that:
Paris dp by train 7.07 - Geneva 10.16/11.00 - Les Gets 12.45 - Morzine 12.55 - Avoriaz ar 13.10
resp.
Paris dp by train 9.11 - Geneva 12.16/13.55 - Les Gets 15.45 - Morzine 15.55 - Avoriaz ar 16.10
Avoriaz dp 9.00, 14.15 and 17.10 - Morzine and Les Gets dp 15 resp 25 min later - Geneva airport railway station 10.40/11.06, 15.40/16.06, 18.55/19.36 - Interlaken ar 13.57, 18.57, 22.40
or
Paris dp by train 8.02, 11.57, 13.57 - Champery ar 13.31, 17.21, 19.21; change at Lausanne and Aigle
Champery dp 7.34 - Interlaken ar 10.28, trains every hr until (Champery dp) 20.34, change at Monthey, Visp and Spiez
or, along the very scenic Golden Pass itinerary:
Champery dp 7.34 and then every hr until 17.34 - Interlaken ar 12.49 and then every hr, change at Aigle, Montreux and Zweisimmen.

Loetschberger - Glacier Express - Bernina Express: extremely long train ride through mountain valleys in the winter snow:
Day 1:
Interlaken dp 7.29 via Kandersteg - Hohtenn - Brig - Muenster - Furka - Andermatt - Oberalp Pass - Ilanz to Chur ar 14.34 (it will get dark 2 hrs later). Visit Chur and sleep there.
Day 2:
Chur dp 8.58 via Schyn Gorge - Albula Pass - Engadin Valley - Bernina Pass - Lake Poschiavo to Tirano ar 13.12
Connecting train to Lake Como - Milan: Tirano dp 15.10 - Milan ar 17.40 resp Bergamo (scenic small Italian town with a medieval city center) ar 17.52
Zermatt is 1 hr away from Visp (between Champery and Interlaken, resp between Interlaken and Brig). The Glacier Express to Chur can be boarded at Zermatt (dp 8.52) too.

After the skiing, we want to go to Switzerland (4 days) to experience the Jungfrau, Matterhorn & take the Bernina/Glacier express to Tirano>

Trains should be running in those mountain areas as they are the life-line of winter sports tourism and are equipped for snow, etc. If doing the above in 4 days then by all means look at a 4-consecutive-day Swiss Pass - covers all those trains except Grindelwald/Wengen to Jungfraujoch and on that it gives 25% off that steep fare.

For lots of great info on Swiss trains I always spotlight these IMO fantastic sites - www.swisstravelsystem.com; www.seat61.com; www.ricksteves.com and http://www.budgeteuropetravel.com/id3.html.

It will be nearly impossible to do all that in four days though - I suggest you cut either the Jungfrau or Zermatt and actually have some time in one of those places - either that or you'll be on the train all day everyday.

Take the Glacier Express if it is a utilitarian link between Zermatt and say St Moritz but to me and others the GE is the most overhyped scenic train in Europe and there are many in Switzerland just as or more scenic that do not involve and all-day 8-hour marathon trip that IME has many folks rather bored and more sipping from their tilting wine glasses after a while than revelling in largely so-so (for Switzerland) scenery.

But it is just about the only way to go between Zermatt and St Moritz direct without changing trains.

"But it is just about the only way to go between Zermatt and St Moritz direct without changing trains"

...and even if you change trains 4 times and travel along the boring itinerary via Loetschberg-Base-Tunnel - Hondrichtunnel - Grauholztunnel - Rudtligentunnel - Hersiwiltunnel - Oesch-Oenz-Tunnel - Gishübeltunnel -Thunstettentunnel - Hardtunnel - Roggwiltunnel - Murgenthaltunnel - Borntunnel - Stadttunnel - Heitersbergtunnel - Zimmerberg-Base-Tunnel - Biberlichopftunnel - Kerenzerbergtunnel to Chur and St. Moritz, you will be only about 1/2hr faster, not more.

I would either ski in Switzerland or skip Switzerland altogether. The French Alps will be sufficiently impressive if that is what you choose. From Morzine figure out the cheapest way to get to Rome and Naples. EasyJet from Geneva to either of those cities is a possibility.

May be not everybody realizes that Portes du Soleil is a international Franco-Swiss ski area where skiers use to cross the border several times a day, sitting in a gondola, hanging on a ski lift or skiing down a pist.
About 2/3 of the 650 km of pists are in Haute Savoie, the others in Valais, many of them are border crossing.
The skipass is of course valid in both countries.

I think the answer has been provided Louis_SA.

Jeesh guys THANK YOU!!!


I guess this is how you learn to plan a trip. Now, to throw a spanner in the works, me and my wife thought of doing our ski part of the trip in Livigno instead, from what I gathered it would be a bit cheaper and fit our budget.

So. the idea then is to spend a 3 days in Paris, then head off to Switzerland and upon exiting Switzerland after the Glacier Express experience, pop into Livigno.

I believe St. Moritz is the last stop on this scenic railway journey and not that far from Livigno?

I will need to figure out the best way to get to Livigno and after the skiing we want to head to Rome.

Livigno seems to appeal to us more with regards to the type of slopes (we are beginners).

I believe St. Moritz is the last stop on this scenic railway journey and not that far from Livigno?>

When you want to go on to Italy then you can keep going on the Bernina Express rail route to Torino, Italy and the Italian rail system to Milan and on to Rome.

The Bernina Pass rail line is to me the most awesomely scenic one in Europe.

Do you want to go from Paris directly to Livigno?
Do you want to visit Interlaken/Jungfrau area or not?
do you want to do the Glacier Express ride or not?
What's about the Bernina Express ride?

Paris - Livigno:
fly to either Milano Malpensa or Milano Orio al Serio, arrive there towards noon and go on at 1pm resp 2 prm by Livigno shuttle (70 EUR/pax) to Livigno.

Interlaken - Glacier Express - Livigno:
Interlaken Ost dp 9.08 - Spiez 9.32/9.36 - Brig 10.11/10.18 - Glacier Express - Chur 14.44/15.20 - Sagliains 16.53/16.56 - Zernez 17.06/17.10 - Livigno ar 17.50

Interlaken - Glacier Express itinerary by standard trains - Livigno:
Interlaken Ost dp 7.00 - Spiez 9.21/7.36 - Brig 8.11/8.23 - Andermatt 10.20/10.27 - Disentis 11.36/11.44 - Sagliains 14.53/14.56 - Zernez 15.06/15.10 - Livigno ar 15.50 and them every 2 hrs until Interlaken Ost dp 11.00 - Livigno ar 19.50

Livigno - Milano: Livigno - Bormio (change bus) - Tirano - train - Milano Centrale (5 to 6 hrs journey).

It should be Spiez 7.21/7.36, sorry! Only with this solution you will have day light up to Livigno.

Can't comment on the ski portion of your trip but I would definitely recommend more than 3 days in Paris.

neckervd - GREAT! Thank you for the detailed info.