2007 Possible Europe Vacation- Help Please
 

Hello everyone. You guys have been great help to us on a couple of other vacations so thought I would ask for help again. My wife and I are trying to determine our big vacation for 2007. Last fall we went to Europe for the 1st time (Paris & Belgium) so now that we've had the taste of Europe we are itching to go back. We are considering a smaller trip this year (4-6 full days (not including travel days)in one city with hopefully a longer trip in 2008. We are really leaning toward London even though the american dollar is weak against the pound. If you can give some advice on the following it would be appreciated as it would help us sort out a little more Europe vs. laying on the beach. Our passion right now is Europe but we don't want to spend the coin to go & be rushed around.

1) Is 4-6 full days enough time to have an enjoyable stop in London only? We are considering Sunday morning arrival with Friday departure. This would give us Mon-Thursday = 4 good rested days to see some of the city but would consider adding a day or two. We realize we can't see everything but it seems like if we just stayed in London this would give us some time to get a flavor for the city and see some of the bigger sights. If we like it, we could always go back on another trip, stay longer and venture to Bath, Stone Henge etc.

2) What would be a good location to stay in considering the tube and popular destinations?

3) We are considering late May / early June or sometime in Sept./ October- Is there a time that would be better?

4) A good hotel recommendation that is reasonably priced. All we're looking for is a private bath in our room, a clean place to stay and a good location. We don't need anything fancy like a Hilton.

5)What I have found this far is air is about $1,800 RT for both of us & I found a hotel called the Sumner that seemed to be a middle of the road price hotel for $1,400 for 5 nights ($280 per night). If I could find a place for $100-$200 a night that would be great but might not be very realistice for London? Is it realistic to think we could take a vacation like this for around $4,000?

6) Is there another city you would recommend? My wife and I are late 20s-early 30s but aren't really big into the party scene. Really enjoy seeing some of the major sights a city has to offer, being with the people to soak in the culture, doing some shopping, eating etc.

Thanks for the help! We appreciate it!

Here's so basic info to get you started and bump your post to the top.

4-6 days is possible especially as you're not counting travel days. Add an extra couple of days and you'd be able to easily fit in a daytrip or an overnight to Bath/Stonehenge if you wanted to.
Flight prices sound a little high to me as you're not travelling in peak season.... but I live on the East coast (where are you?).

Avoid the last week of May as this is a school vacation week in the UK (last Monday of the month is a holiday). There's another school vacation week in mid to late October.

September and June are both good (no guarantees with the weather but generally mild to warm and hopefully dry... or showers!)

$100 a night is very tough but $200 and up is more realistic.

Thanks for the help! We are located in KC so unfortunately, it's harder for us to find good deals on airfare. Good to know that we could have a nice visit in 4-6 days. We found a hotel recommendation for the Victoria Inn of London and the website looks good. Looks to be around 60-80 pounds per night (approx. $1,000 depending on how many nights). We generally budget about $100 for food per day when we travel - $20 for breakfast / $20 lunch and $60 for dinner. What would you recommend for London? Could someone explain more about the school vacation holiday? Does that mean things will be really crowded or things are closed for the holiday? Just asking because a window that works really well for us is May 26th- June3rd. Sounds like this might be a time to avoid? Thanks!

Hmmm... I have been to London many times for business and although it is a nice city, it would not be my first choice for a second visit. That being said, I should point out my reason. I prefer cities where the culture and language are completely different than my own (I am Canadian living in the USA).

A few of my favorite larger cities in Europe are Rome, Amsterdam, Budapest, Istanbul, Dubrovnik and Barcelona.

Enjoy your planning!

I'd go to Amsterdam (but honestly with such a short trip personally I'd pick "laying on a beach" somewhere myself -lol).

Your food budget of $100 per day will need to be per person unless you intend to eat light, cheap and alcohol free. This is where you'll feel the real expense of London compared to the US.
For example,
A sandwich from a grocery store would be $6, from a deli more like $8 (for cheese maybe more like $10-12 for meat or shrimp) plus a soft drink a few more dollars. A Starbucks latte (tall) is about $6.
As a very rough guide expect food costs to be at least double what you usually pay.
Indian or other ethnic food is generally cheaper. We like the Marsala Zone in SOHO for reasonable Indian food (around $25-30 per head for dinner without alcohol).

I don't know which hotel you referred to as several Victoria Inn's come up on Google. Last time I was in London I stayed at the Novotel, Waterloo and it's around $200 a night including buffet breakfast.

You can see quite a bit in 4-6 full days. I prefer the Kensington area as it has a neighborhood feel. There are lots of quaint townhouses that have been converted into hotels. I stayed at the Thistle hotel in Kensington which was nice but very much like a Holiday Inn.

The price of everything in London is killer...especially for me (last time I was there 1 pound equalled 2.25 Canadian...ouch). A museum would be 10 to 15 pounds so you can see how quickly that would add up. A glass of wine...4-6 pounds...a light meal at a pub 10-15 pounds per person. I think there are ways to economize.

I prefer to travel in the Spring when the days are longer as the museums close quite early in the fall. The last tour to the Tower of London started at approximately 4pm.

That airfare seems rather high regardless of your location. I would search around as I'm sure you can get something better if you shop.

Paris is a wonderful city for a first trip to Europe. I loved London as well but it doesn't come close to the romance of Paris. I think your money will go a little further as well. I don't wish to deter you but it's just another suggested city where there is endless possibilities for a 4-6 day stay.

After searching airfare, accommodations, etc., we're now considering 5-6 days in SW Ireland. Airfare out of KC to Shannon seems reasonable. Would really like to see Ring of Kerry, Cliffs of Moher, etc. Have read that Killarny is rather touristy but we're not too concerned about that. We do tend to be more outdoorsy and the scenery, coastline, lakes and mountains interest us. My wife also likes history, castles, art, etc.

What are your recommendations for 5-6 full days (not incl travel) in this area? Looking for possible itineraries and hotels. Hotel rate around $100 US would be ideal.

If you're not too fussy about exactly which hotel you stay in, why don't you buy your airfare separately and then bid for a hotel on Priceline? You can specify an area within London where you want to stay and a quality level (e.g. 2*, 3*, 4*). If I were you, I'd bid for at least a 3* and consider bidding for 4*. We got the Thistle Charing Cross a few years ago for about 50% of the going internet rate. (It's better to bid for a quality level that is a little higher than what you'd normally stay in. Since you can't choose your hotel in advance, bidding for a higher quality hotel reduces the risk that you'll be disappointed with what you get.)

I used to live in London, and I quite like the areas of Bloomsbury and the West End north of Oxford Street (e.g. Marylebone). You are within walking distance of a lot of attractions and close to a number of different tube lines, which makes it easy to get around.

London is a lot hotter than it used to be and air conditioning is not widely used (e.g. many hotels, restaurants and theatres don't have it; some and perhaps all of the Tube lines lack air conditioning). Late June could be quite hot, so late September or October might be better (and prices might be a little lower).

The school vacation just means that museums etc are full of kids - everything is still open.

My daughter and her husband were in London for their Honeymoon last August/September. Their bargain find was Base2Stay in London. The rooms were small but extremely clean, had kitchenette, private bathroom, and very reasonable price for London. I think in Kensington area. They really liked it.

&quot;<i>A museum would be 10 to 15 pounds</i>&quot; Huh? Most of London's museums and galleries are free.

jbjayhawk: I see you are now thinking about Ireland. If you are still talking about a bit less than a week -I would definitely recommend London over Ireland. Reason being - the distances in Ireland may seem small - but the travel is very slow. In 4 or 5 days you will only see a small corner of Ireland. I would want 10 days to 2 weeks to have a leisurely Ireland visit.

Now - to address the &quot;London is expensive&quot; issue. Yes - it is expensive. But many people on here exaggerate about how bad it is. As already mentioned most of the museums and major galleries in London are free. You can get a decent lunch for low to moderate prices: picnics, museum cafes, Pret a manger sandwich shops, dim sum in China Town, and a LOT of other choices. Theatre has goen up but is still an AMAZING bargain through the TKTS 1/2 price ticket booth.

Either June or September would be great - the looooong daylight in June might get the slight edge for me, but sept weather can be wonderful.

I would recommend trafalger or contiki . they offer independent tours. This is different from the regualar tours because they allow you the ultimate freedom.. really the only thing the tour does for you is provide you transportation and accomadations at a really reasonable rate..

I enjoy London but to be honest it wouldn't be my first choice for a vacation based on your interests. Not that it isn't great, but there are other cities that I think are better for soaking up the culture.

My husband and I are also in our 20's and have been to Europe about 10 times. Based on things you enjoy I would suggest somewhere in Italy, perhaps Rome. We aren't into the party scene or beach vacations either. Rome has so many great sights to see, its perfect for soaking in some Italian culture, and having a delicious Italian dinner with a good glass of wine in an outdoor restaurant is its own slice of heaven. There is also tons of great shopping, of course.

I personally would choose one city and stay there with a short amount of time. Ireland sounds lovely (and I'm visiting for the first time next month) but I think you would get more out of staying in one place.

As for the flight costs, I feel your pain. We now live in Charlotte, NC but moved here from St. Louis just a few months ago. The prices for flights from St. Louis were high enough that we usually drove the 4 hours to Chicago and flew from there because the savings were so great.

Good luck with whatever you decide!
Tracy

Thanks! Everyone makes really good points &amp; is giving us a lot to think about. I'll look into Rome this morning but at this point if we do trek to Europe it is down to London &amp; SW Ireland. We actually had an itinerary recommended for Ireland of:

Day 1: Arrive in Shannon
Day 2: Kilarny National Park
Day 3: Dingle Pen.
Day 4: Burren
Day 5: Cliffs of Moher &amp; Shannon
Day 6: Fly home out of Shannon

Based on our interest of the outdoors it sounds like this could be an enjoyable trip? We also talked a little bit yesterday about just going to Amsterdam but (this may sound silly) feel if we're going to make that trip we should do it in April or early May when the tulips are in bloom but we can't make that trip this year. I guess this is a good problem to have...trying to decide where to vacation and all. Wherever we go, we realize that for 5 full days we'll just be getting a taste for the city / region &amp; we'll have to go back if we like what we see.

With the pund really hurting I would suggest you look further North in UK. Prices tend to fall off and people work harder to get the tourist buck. Consider Scotland Ed or Glas. Or the Northern cities of Leeds or Manchester. I know it cuts down on the &quot;what we did in our vacation chat&quot; but these are worth while cities and the YHA has good quality hostels in each. Note a lot of hostels have private baths etc, it is worth reviewing the YHA web site. www.yha.co.uk it think.

If you are tired of London (etc) then look at Brussels or my favorite Amsterdam. The benefit of London is the culture is only a bit different from US well in Holland the language is the same but a lot of things change.

Now is 4 to 6 days enough to do London. No.

Thanks for providing with so much background info, very helpful.

London seems to me a great choice for a short visit to an European city. To offset a bit how bad the dollar is doing vs. GPB, I would travel in the winter (February) and stayed near a tube station (which is true for about 99% of London!). The warmer weather trends should play in your favor.

I have stayed at the Victoria Inn (2002) and loved it; good budget hotel, nice Belgravia neighborhood.

I also read you are considering Shannon. In the event you need a contingency plan: what about Munich? Again, if budget travel is the critical factor you need to switch travel dates and consider winter travel.

I would do Amsterdam or London since you have only 4-6 days. Agreeing with others, I think you'd want a couple weeks to make it worthwhile going to Ireland.

It looks like your not leaning towards London anymore but let me clarify. Yes there are some free museums or galleries...namely The British Museum, Natural History, Victoria Albert, Imperial War and National Maritime...and some other less noteworthy.

Many other attractions and sites are not free.

Kensington Palace 12 pounds
Tower of London 10 pounds
Westminister Abbey 10 pounds
London Eye 14.50 pounds
St Pauls 9 pounds
Windsor Castle 13.50 pounds

Just to name a few. I know that there is a London pass that you can buy that reduces the price of admission to some 50 attractions in the city.

No trip to London would be complete without an evening at the theatre which will set you back approx 100.00 per person.

I think with a 4000.00 budget for a 6 day trip it might be tight...you mentioned 1400.00 for hotels and if you could get airfare for let say 1600.00 (maybe less)....that would only leave you 1000.00 for spending money which would only be about 100.00 for food, transportation and attractions. I think that might be tight unless you can do better on the hotel or airfare.

Just to throw something else into the mix, have you considered Lisbon?

It's a small city, very affordable, with options for outdoorsy daytrips.

I haven't been there so I'm not speaking from personal experience, but it is on my list of &quot;Must See&quot; places for the future. From what I've read, it would make a perfect short getaway.

No we haven't considered Lisbon but that might be something to look into. It sounds like London &amp; Amsterdam get the nod for the length of trip we are considering. Amsterdam really peaked our interest but as prev. mentioned we thought it might be better to take this trip in April / early May? Maybe the tulips would still be in bloom in late May early June? I appreciate all the info.

Nope that's too late for tulips. But I had a fantastic time with 5 days in Amsterdam, no tulips needed
:-)

Suze- can you share more about your trip? Where did you stay, what did you do? What time of year did you visit etc? Thanks!

CRAZY4TRAVEL: Yes - those places do have entry fees. But you posted &quot;<i>A museum would be 10 to 15 pounds</i>&quot; yet none of those sites you just listed are museums.

Museums/galleries that are free include the British Museum, National Gallery, National Portrait Gallery, British Library, V&amp;A, Natural History, Science, Imperial War, Geoffrye, Tate Modern, Tate Britain, Museum of London, Wallace Collection and more . . . . .

Sure, happy to. I was there in July a few years ago. I stayed 5 days solo, just picked it out of the blue, to see a new city, and have a place to get over my jet lag before heading down to Switzerland for 2 more weeks with friend living there.

I stayed at Hotel Kap, a 3-star place out by canal rings and Leidseplein area. I arrived and departed from the airport using Connexxion hotel shuttle bus service.

Mostly I just wandered around... Went to Vondelpark one sunny day, saw the floating flower markets. Into the central area another for RLD, the Dam, erotic museum another long walk. I am not much of an art museum or history buff myself, although certainly there are many of that kind of things available in the city. One rainy day I took a LONG walk out to the Tropenmuseum which is a funky place showing about history of Dutch territories.

Honestly, Amsterdam is not my favorite city. I recommend it often because I think it is extremely interesting for many reasons, 5 days is enough to get a feel for it, it is incredibly easy logistically (getting around, enough people speaking English, casual food options, etc.). And it is totally different from any place I'd been before.

That's why I posted a clarification....thanks for pointing that out...both times.

I guess I was just trying to clarify some more since &quot;<i>some free museums or galleries... . . . ...and some other less noteworthy.</i>&quot; made it sound like there are just a few free biggies and the rest are not of much interest. I usually can be in London a week or more and only pay to get inside 2 or 3 sites (not counting theatre of course)

I second the Rome suggestion. My husband and I are your age and we loved Rome. We live in Missouri as well and we got good fares for Rome with only one stop. Haven't been to Ireland but have been to London. It was okay but wouldn't run back there anytime soon. It's really expensive!
Enjoy your trip,
Amy

Again..thank you for helping me to clarify my point but I think he is leaning towards another destination so we might as well move on.

I recommend Prague. I believe you can find airline tickets from KC for $800 or less per person round trip. I've heard Prague is the second most popular destination in Europe after Paris. It is breathtaking.

We do London almost every year, and we have found that it is easiest if you find something around the British Museum, Covent Garden, or Russell Square, because you can limit the time you need to get on/off the &quot;tube&quot; and you can walk to almost everywhere. We usually do the museum and/or Tate Museum one day, Covent Garden followed by dinner in one of the excellent ethnic restaurants nearby, cathredals, concerts and good shopping all within walking distance.

Crazy, actually we haven't moved off London 100% yet. Really the only negative aspect we can find about London is the expense which I've heard is both really bad and not as bad as some would make it seem. For this trip, we have a total budget of around $4000. If we can get air &amp; hotel for $3,000 or less that leaves $1,000 for food, sites etc. For our budget &amp; the time frame (4-6 full days not including travel) Europe might not be a good vacation option as much as we would love to go back this year. Amsterdam is something I'm going to look into a lot more. Rome is a great suggestion but when I looked into Rome this morning airfare was $1,500 per person out of Chicago and more out of KC. The best air &amp; accommodations we've been able to find is to Ireland (we would both love to go there)but the consensus is we would need a minimum of 10 days to really enjoy the trip. Haven't thought about Prague which might be a good option but is it too large of a city to tackle in our time frame? Sorry to be all over the board. The dilema is that we would both desp. like to return to Europe this year but it would really help us to stay within our budget and # of days alloted for this trip. London has appeal because it def. sounds like 4-6 days would be enough time to see some of the major sites and just wander around &amp; enjoy the city some. We just need to decide to go to Europe or not go, pick a destination, plan it and make the best of our time there. Thanks again!

jbjayhawk: Two benefits of London - budget-wise - are the usually lower airfares, and Priceline which is brilliant for London. PL is not so good for Paris and some other cities, but in London they really do get you some amazing bargains. Honest to goodness 4 star full-service hotels in the center of town for less than $100 a night.

So even though some aspects of London are very expensive - when you get a good airfare, get a great hotel for $80-$90, and the other little economies like pret an Manger, free museums, etc - you can comfortably do London w/i your budget.

janisj- Thanks! When you mention central London, can you clarify which area specifically i.e. Westminster? Kensington? Also, we've never bid on PL before so would your recommendation be to just pick 4 star for this area &amp; drop in $100 per night? We looked around a little &amp; it looked like the retail price for a 4 star in London is $275. Would the price include all taxes, fees, etc?

Don't just jump into priceline. Be sure to thouroughly study the London section on biddingfortravel.com

It lists the hotels by PL zone, what bids are being accepted, and bidding advice.

I just got the Hilton Olympia (granted not my favorite place) for $75 a night for 4 nights inn Feb. PL zones cover all of central London from Earls Court/Kensington in the west to the Tower of London/the City to the east.

Most people prefer the Westminster and Mayfair/Soho zones. The reason I went for Kensington/Knightsbridge this time (knowing I might get too close to Earls court) is I am renting a London flat earlier in the trip and am on a tighter budget than usual.

So it is not the grandest Hilton on the Planet - but it is only $75 +tax which is a steal in London.

Prague is a lovely city...and quite inexpensive but the airfares are usually much higher than London.

I'm not that familar with the airfare trends in the USA but in Canada we usually see seat sales to London in January/February for travel up to the end of May. I would keep checking to see if the rates come down over the next month or so.

I've never used priceline but have heard its praises on this website. If you can get your hotel budget down...that would give you the spending money you need.

Airfare 1800.00
Hotel 600.00 (based on janisj priceline)

That would leave approx USD250 per day or approx GBP130.00 per day. I think you could manage on that budget.

If I were you, I would go in late September - October as that's shoulder season and things sorta die down around that time. I would say that the amount of time you've planned for London does sound like enough, especially if you're not intent on trying to cram in loads of things and be pressed for time. The hotel you've mentioned does seem like a prime location given that it's located near Marble Arch, but personally I would stay close to the Victoria tube stop. This might sound questionable, but I have my reasons for doing so. A couple of years ago my nephew and I went to London and stayed at was once the London Victoria Holiday Inn (now the Hesperia London - http://www.hesperia.com/Hesperia-Lon...ia/?cambio=171). What was really great about this hotel, aside from its amenities, was that since our flight was out of Gatwick, we didn't feel rushed to hop on the tube, make changes, etc. All we had to do was stroll out of the hotel, cross the street and on into Victoria Station to catch the Express. On top of that, you're only a couple of stops down from Oxford Circus (well, you're basically in center London anyways). My sister and I also stayed there one night last year Sept. 2006.

Now, getting a bit more refined on the hotel situation. I looked at what you posted for a hotel - The Sumner - and the total rate you'd pay for the length of your stay (being $1400) and think that you can probably do a bit better. I've already mentioned the Hesperia London. Taking into account that you have 2 travel dates in mind, I picked the Sept-Oct dates and used as an example arrival on Sun. Sept. 30th with departure on Fri. Oct. 5th. Your total for the length of stay would be $1,037 (this is the nonrefundable rate - excludes VAT &amp; Breakfast. No cancellations or amendments allowed).

Granted that the exchange rate isn't the best, you can probably do this vacation for about $4,000. Now, as much as I love London, Paris has overtaken it as the top city on my list. I know you said that you and your wife already went to Paris, but it never hurts to go back! :) I don't know if London is really a city to people watch and soak things up, it seems more of a fast paced city. However, since you've never been to London but you've been to Paris, maybe going to London will give you a chance to compare which city is more attractive to you desires.

Thanks everyone! Trafaelwyr, I appreciate you running some numbers for the fall! Unfortunately, the May/June window works a lot better for us. It sounds like if we do London we have some time to figure out accommodations &amp; learn the layout of the city a little better. I guess I was initially worried about getting a good hotel a couple of months before the trip but after bumping around on the PL form it seems like we're in good shape (maybe we bid in March for late May visit). If I undertand the PL form correctly, it is better to wait to bid on rooms a couple of months before the trip because it might be too soon now for rooms to be in inventory? Sounds like a def. must it to get a hotel near a tube stop and we'll be in good shape. Also seems like a lot people bid in Westminster or Kennsington so those must be good areas to stay. Thanks again!

Don't forget you will need an A to Z of London. About paperback size it is the complete map for the city. I assume Amazon or if not in a book shop at Heathrow.

Thank you to all who have posted advice! The wife and I have decided to trek to SW Ireland as the prices are a little friendlier &amp; it's a place we would really like to visit. We've saved all of the London info. &amp; might try to visit London in the fall. We're hoping to get some better rates in Sept. - October and maybe the dollar will be better against the lb. I'm sure we'll be back with London questions as we plan that trip. Thanks again to all, we have the info. and we'll use it as we start to plan that trip.