2 Weeks in UK
 

I hope you trekkers can follow my convoluted logic...

In 2010, I have the need to spend at least a week, part time in London.

Seperately, I am plannnig a trip to Ireland in 2009 because my wife really wants to go there. I have two weeks. I am not thrilled about spending two years in a row overseas in the UK for my vacation as I prefer Latin-influenced destinations (Italy, Spain) and the British culture just doesn't appeal as much to me as an American. I like being challenged by a foreign language!

So, I'm trying to think of a way to spend a few days in London in 2010 then the rest of the week in Paris, which I have never been to before. The only way I can do that with clear conscience is if I also experience other parts of England on my two week 2009 trip to Ireland.

I was thinking... In 2009, 3 days in Dublin; 4 days on West Coast Ireland and Galway; fly to Edinburgh (3 days); fly to England and spend 4 days between York and Bath. Then in 2010 go to London then Paris. Is this just toally ridiculous and will I miss the essence of each of the three countries I visit in 2009 (Ireland, Scotland, and England)? Again, keep in mind, I am not totally fascinated with the culture.

Option 2 is: Go slower. In 2009, split two weeks between Ireland and Scotland. Then in 2010, just go to London and surrounding English/Welsh areas for one week. Save Paris for another year altogether.

I know this is kind of crazy question. I hope some of you can get into my head. This site has never failed me before.

Help, please!

Firstly if we wanted to challenge you with our native language we could leave you baffled. We're just kind to you merkins.

You want to spend 4 days between York and Bath - this seems daft. They're a good way apart and not that easy on public transport (and not a huge amount of fun to drive). Decide if you want to be in the beautiful south or up north where it's grim.

If you plump for york why not add Durham?

If Bath why not Salisbury or Winchester or even Wells?

" I like being challenged by a foreign language! "

Obviously you've never been to Wales.

Your trip sounds way too spread out, IMHO.

Since you're already going to London, why not spend more time in Scotland and Northern England?

neither of your plans are very good (except for maybe the second part of option 2) - sorry but that's the the way I see it.

You can easily spend two weeks in Ireland in 2009 and not even see a tiny fraction of it. Travel is very slow in rural Ireland and 4 days won't give you much time for the western bits.

One week in Ireland and one week in Scotland is not going slow.

In 2010 - You could go to London, do what you have to do, then take the train to Paris and fly home from there. Nothing complicated about that

Or the "other part of option 2" of just going to London and a bit of England would be OK.

Ireland and Scotland have got ample to keep you busy for a week each. London and the South have ample to offer for another time.

What about London/Paris? We have friends that did that combo recently and were pleased. Took the Eurostar from London....

WE did London/Edinburgh. I think Scotland is great...

THe language challenge. I found myself translating a bit in Scotland.....the accent was very different with some there. Very friendly city and people..

Tha mi a'smaoineachadh gum bithidh cannan eagallaich gu leor air do thon ann an Alba.

Okay, okay... sounds like consensus. I'm being way too ambitious.

Then critique these two...

Option 1
Fly from US to Dublin
3 days Dublin
3 days Kinsale, Killarney, Dingle Penin.
2 days Galway
Fly from Galway to Edinburgh
3 days Edinburgh
2 days Glasgow/Oban
Back to Edinburgh to fly back to US

Option 2
Fly from US to Dublin
3 days Dublin
4 days Galway/Dingle Penin.
Fly from Galway to Edinburgh
3 days Edinburgh
3 days York/Durham, England
To London to fly back to US

Can you fly out of your last stop? We flew into London and out of Edinburgh....big time saver.

Option 2 looks the better to me.

>>>2 days Glasgow/Oban>>>

Why on earth do you want to go to Oban. Don't you have boring towns in the USA?

" I like being challenged by a foreign language! "

Obviously you've never been to Wales."

Indeed...

You could also try Newcastle, now that would give you a linguistic challenge too !!

I don't have a clue what they say.

lol


Muck

CW, the boring towns I've been to in the US are nowhere near as pretty as Oban :)

I live in a coastal boring town in California. I can see the Pacific as I type and I am thankful for the quiet. We, unlike Oban, have no trains nor do we have a ferry port that can take you to many Isles. Oban is a nice place, boring as we like it, certainly not like smelly old London. :)

the British culture just doesn't appeal as much to me as an American. I like being challenged by a foreign language!>

i see you have never traveled to the English Midlands, Wales or Scotland

OK. I am working on refining this. Please tell me what you like and dislike:

Saturday- Arrive in Dublin (3 nights)
Sunday- Dublin
Monday- Dublin or surrounding area Tuesday- Drive to Cobh overnight in Kinsale (2 nights)
Wednesday- Kinsale
Thursday- Drive to Dingle, visit Kenmare/Killarney on the way and sleep in Dingle (2 nights)
Friday- Ring of Dingle
Saturday- Drive to Galway and visit Cliffs of Moher/Burren/Dunguaire Castle on the way, and sleep in Galway (2 nights)
Sunday-Aran Islands/Galway
Monday-Fly from Galway to Edinburgh; drive first to Culcross, then Bannockburn, visit Doune (if time) and sleep in Stirling (1 night)
Tuesday- Drive to Oban, spend day, and sleep in Oban (1 night)
Wednesday- Drive to Edinburgh, visit Glasgow and Glen Coe on the way, and sleep in Edinburgh (3 nights)
Thursday- Edinburgh
Friday- Edinburgh
Saturday- Fly home from Edinburgh

I honestly don't think you're doing justice to either Ireland or Scotland. But, if this is what you're doing... I wouldn't visit Glasgow on the way to Edinburgh. You won't really want to have a car in Glasgow, and your time there would be limited. I'd say visit Glasgow via train from Edinburgh if you really want to see it, and on the way to Edinburgh see things that require the car.

I'd fly into Glasgow from Galway. My heart is telling me that you should be going from there to Barra by air, spending sometime thereabouts, taking the boat back to Oban from Lochboisdale and driving back to Edinburgh picking up your central belt history on the way.

Arguably, you might find Barra and the Uists too much like Western Ireland, and if so, I would NOT propose this.

But, given your sceptical approach to my beloved country, what DO you want to see/experience- nature? people? language? history? culture? what? Tell me and I'll rewrite your paltry 5 days for you.

I honestly think you should skip Scotland. It is my VERY favorite place on Earth but when a plan includes >>Drive to Edinburgh, visit Glasgow and Glen Coe on the way, and sleep in Edinburgh << it is hard to even explain why that doesn't work.

It would be like saying "drive from Boston to Philadelphia and visit New York City and Gettysburg on the way and sleep in Philly". You cannot "visit Glasgow" as a drive by in a couple of hours.

If you want to keep Scotland in your plan - don't fly in/out of the same airport and end up backtracking through the same countryside twice.

You could fly into Glasgow - spend 1 night. Pick up car and drive to Oban (is there a reason why you chose Oban specifically? ) - stay 1 night.

Drive up through Glencoe and down to near Stirling. Visit Doune/Bannockburn. spend 1 night.

Visit Culross the next morning visit and drive to Edinburgh, drop the car and stay 2 nights.

Now I would not pick some of those places -- Why Bannockburn for instance. There is a visitors center at the battlefield, but it certainly isn't a must for a quick trip to Scotland when there are hundreds of other great places to visit.

Midlands (for foreign speech), hell - try Bermondsey!

Sheila,

Thanks for the reply.

My main challenge is relaxing; I have a very hard time doing it. I am not a nature buff--it's just not me. Beautiful green hills and stunning cliffs will only keep my attention for so long. So, I appreciate what you said about Barra maybe being too much like Western Ireland. My wife is of Irish descent and really wants to visit. My idea of an excellent five day trip is 3 days in a big city with big sites and two days in a more quaint area but still with vibrant restuarants, culture and people.

I'd love for you to rewrite my "paultry" five days. I love to eat, drink and be with people, and I'm really appreciate unique architecture and history.

Janisji,

Pardon my personal preferences and ignorance of the area. That's why I come hear and bounce these ideas off more seasoned and knowledgable travelers.

As far as Oban is concerned, I've read about it and seen it on video, and it seems like a good contrast to the urban feel of Edinburgh. Plus, with only 5 days in Scotland, I'm kind of tethered to the Southern half of the country, so it's not too far a drive. What do you think? Do you have a recommendation that I should replace Oban with to get a more quaint experience of Scotland that still has restuarants and people?

Thanks for the info on Bannockburn; that's helpful.

Keep the recommendations coming.

While everyone on ehre might not agree with my approach, I'm confident I'll have a better trip due to your input.

All of the recommendations concerning flying into Glasgow instead of in and out of edinburgh seem good. However, I can't seem to find a flight from Galway to Glasgow. Any help? And flights out of Glasgow back to the US are incredibly expensive when compared to flying out of Edinburgh.

The cities are close enough together that if flying into or out of EDI is a lot cheaper, you should be able to make it work.

Given the further info you've provided about your interests, you might want to allocate a solid day (or a bit more) to the city of Glasgow. People seeking out scenery/castles, etc, often give it a miss, but we have spent a good bit of time in Glasgow and it has lots to offer. If you have any interest in the architecture of Charles Rennie Mackintosh, Glasgow provides good opportunities to view his work - both in the city and in the surrounding areas. There are some great museums in Glasgow, and good people watching, shopping, and decent food. I find it has the hustle and bustle of a living city, whereas Edinburgh's old town can have a somewhat "preserved"/tourist feel (although it is also quite enjoyable, and has some great attractions - the castle, palace, cathedral, abbey ruins, museums, etc.)

OKkkkkkkkkkkkk. In that case I would narrow it all down a bit, and I woudl travel less in Scotland.

You can, incidentally, fly from Shannon to Glasgow in just over an hour, and get a direct flight from there, if that's what you want to do. Having seen your aspirations I'm inclined, however to think it matters less.

If it were me, I'd do it in reverse order, and I would not go too far from Edinburgh. That is to say, that after your rural Ireland bit of the trip, I'd go to Edinburgh and do my three days there.

Then I'd head off somewhere NOT TOO FAR, and spend both of the extra nights there. The places which leap into my mind, based on your criteria are, in no particular order:-

St Andrews- that would give you Fife and Tayside for day trips.

Aberfeldy or Dunkeld- that would give you Tayside and the central highlands for day trips. Rural but different from the west of Ireland.

Kirkcudbright- (I hope Danna's listening). That would give you Dumfries and Galloway.

All of those towns are small and have their quaint bits- obviously St Andrews, becuase of the Uni is busier and, indeed bigger, and you could choose Anstruther or Pittenweem as alternatives. They have cafes and bookshops (or "a" bookshop) and good bars and music.

I could suggest Ullapool, Gairloch, or various places in the islands, but they're all further away.

Oban is OK, but you won't get a feel for it. Too many busy roads and no real centre.

Sheila,

You say "Oban is OK, but you won't get a feel for it" yet I have seen you recommned this city to other posters on this forum. Do you say this to me because of the short time I have allotted to it or some other reason? Any guidance for me on choosing between the number of excellent recommendations you gave me?

No, my reluctance is because of your description of what you're looking for:-"two days in a more quaint area but still with vibrant restuarants, culture and people".

Oban sits in a beautiful location, but it ain't quaint. It has a couple of good restuarants and dozens of pretty awful ones. Mostly the culture is tartan tat for the tourists. It has very nice people.

There's a very busy road which runs north/south through the town, and the commercial stuff is on one side of it and the harbour on the other. Assuming a sunny day, I can't think of a SINGLE place to sit outside a cafe or a pub and soak up the atmosphere. More like soak up the traffic or fish fumes.

Now, I'm making it sound worse than it is. It has a nice distillery, and some nice shops- nothing great, but OK. It's a superb ferry port, so if that's what you're after, you're laughing.

I think you'll find I nearly always recommend people stay outside of rather than IN Oban, and the sorts of places I reccomend don't have the low level buzz you're looking for.

I hope that makes it clearer

Given your likes and dislikes I'd recommend skipping the Cliffs of Moher on the west coast of Ireland. EU monies have totally ruined a beautiful natural cliff top with vast carparks, underground cafes and exhibition hall and swathes of concrete paving. I was VERY disappointed!

Sheila,

Wow. You really hit it on the head, based on my likes/dislikes. I'm definitely not going to Oban now with the time I have allotted. I know you said no particular order, but how would you--based on my likes/dislikes--rank your previous recommendations? I'm leaning toward St Andrews just because it seems like it will be more action, but could be swayed.

I think St Andrews would do you very well.

OK. I know most don't like my trip, but I still need your help. Given my approximate time allocations, I need to know from everyone whether I am mis-allocating a half day here or a half day there based on my goals of starting in Dublin and ending in Edinburgh.

Saturday- Arrive in Dublin, sleep in Dublin (3 nights)
Sunday- Dublin
Monday- Dublin
Tuesday- Drive to Cobh, overnight in Kinsale (2 nights)
Wednesday- Kinsale
Thursday- Drive through Killarney and sleep in Dingle (2 nights)
Friday- Ring of Dingle
Saturday- Drive to cliffs then to Galway and sleep in Galway (2 nights)
Sunday-Aran Islands/Galway
Monday-Fly from Galway to Edinburgh; drive to St Andrews and sleep in St Andrews (2 nights)
Tuesday-Day trip from St Andrews
Wednesday- Drive to Edinburgh and sleep in Edinburgh (3 nights)
Thursday- Edinburgh
Friday- Edinburgh
Saturday- Fly home from Edinburgh

For example, on other posts, I see many recommendations to only do 2 days in Edinburgh. Am I allocating a day too much? Should I spend that 3rd day in Stirling or Culcross instead?

I'd stay in Edinburgh for all of the nights that you've allocated. You can then see what you feel like doing - and how the weather is. I think 2 days will be plenty for you to get a taste of Edinburgh. But from Edinburgh, you could easily do Stirling as a day trip via train. Not to repeat myself (even though I am!) but I wouldn't rule out a day trip to Glasgow. It's a vibrant city and has some great pubs and restaurants, as well as museums.

Jtosc001, I have to say that I admire your tenacity and clarity. You know what you want and haven't been unduly insulted or swayed by the prevailing "advice" (I'm including mine here). Fodorites can be a tough - if knowledgeable - bunch, but you have continued on the path that you know works for you. I hope you have a great trip and come back and report about it!!

Sheila,

The reference to "Tayside" as a suggested day trip from St Andrews in one of your previous posts confuses me. When I enter "Tayside" into googlemaps it directs me to a town near Glasgow. However, "Tayport" appears to be in driving distance of St Andrews. Did you mean "Tayport" rather than "Tayside?"

Tayside isn't a town. It is a region and essentially "Tay side" -- i.e. the side of the river Tay.

The area includes Aberfeldy, Dunkeld, and lots of other places.

Tayport is a town across the Tay bridge from Dundee.

I'm fairly certain sheila meant using that day to tour scenic parts of Tayside. You can't really use a mapping program to find "Tayside".

I've decided to add a day in Galway and only do 4 days in Scotland. For the short amount of time I intend to stay four nights in Edinburgh with day trips.

Day 1--Edinburgh
Day 2--Edinburgh
Day 3--Day trip to St Andrews by car. Dinner in Pittenweem or Anstruther.
Day 4--Day trip to Stirling and Bannockburn.

I need your feedback. How does these four days sound?

Questions:
1. Drive or train to Stirling? How much time will Stirling and Bannockburn take? Train is easier, but car is more freedom. If the excursion only takes a few hours, then perhaps I will take a car so that I can drive around Loch Lomond for scenery then back to Edinburgh. Or visit Trossachs and Loch Katrine instead? Does this make any sense? Not enough time?Too much?

2. Visit Culross. There doesn't seem to be a way to get there by public transport. This means that I would either have to stop there first before heading to St Andrews or stop there first before heading to Stirling if I go by car. Any opinions?

May I ask - you have mentioned Culross several times. Is there a reason it seems to be a "must" for you? Culross is certainly interesting, but isn't really one of the top/most impressive sites in Scotland. I personally enjoy walking through the town - but I've spent months in Scotland on various trips. On such a short visit, you might want to spend your limited time elsewhere. (of course if you have family or other reasons to visit - it is interesting.)

No real compelling reason except that most guidebooks note it's quaint and old. It is obviously close to Edi which is appealing too. If the consensus on this forum is that it is a waste of my limited time, then I will forego it.

Sheila, Janisj and Noe847:

I realize I am being a little bit needy here, but I didnt get a response from any of you on my 7/6/08 post. Would you review it and indulge me?

Thanks

The 5:50 post, that is.

OK, I'll put in a few cents. With 4 days and your interests, I think it's a good idea to base yourselves in Edinburgh. St. Andrews sounds like a nice day trip for you. I've not been to St. Andrews or the east, or Culross so I can't be of more assistance there.

Stirling is easy to do as a day trip from Edinburgh via train. But I'm not sure that's what I'd recommend for you. The biggest and best draw is the castle and it is quite similar in age and feel to Edinburgh's castle. If you do go, there is a hop-on-hop-off bus that goes to all of the areas of interest in and around Stirling. With the train ride and the bus circuit you'd be likely to use the better part of the day.

I prefer your idea of the Trossachs by car, or you could go south to the Borders for the day.

Other ideas:
You could see Rosslyn Chapel in Roslin (accessible by bus) http://www.rosslynchapel.org.uk/
or the ruins of Linlithgow Palace (accessible by rail from Edinburgh).

At the risk of becoming a broken record, I'll repeat that I think you should consider Glasgow for a day trip from Edinburgh.

On another note, I'd split your day trips so they are not back to back (day 2 and 4 in Edinburgh, for example.) Not quite as tiring that way.